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nic2109
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#31 Post by nic2109 »

Aitch wrote:The other problem with 'meeting here' threads, is no-one knows what 'chorate' means

[minimum number of who's in attendance, for those who don't know]

Aitch :)
Sorry Aitch but the word you want is "quorate"
The Compact Oxford Dictionary wrote:quorate

• adjective Brit. (of a meeting) attended by a quorum.
where a 'quorum' is
The Compact Oxford Dictionary wrote:quorum

• noun (pl. quorums) the minimum number of members of an assembly or society that must be present at a meeting to make the proceedings valid.

See http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/quorum?view=uk
I agree with your sentiment actually, which is why I think that Lobster's early suggestion that we move in small steps is valuable. It would help establish a methodology where what works is retained, what fails is dropped, and the in-between is refined. We can think bigger thoughts later when a working model is established.

The thing to avoid is ego and hubris and rushing into things.

The Open Source world seems to be made up of a strange mixture of open-handed and hearted generosity combined with messianic certainty in the rightness of one's own opinion and the obligation to shove it in the face of anyone who asks - and many that don't.

But Barry is different. One of the most astonishing things about him is just how humble and ego-free he has been.

We will make most progress if we acknowledge straight away that if we see further it's only because we stand on giant's shoulders. And if the mighty Newton believed that then we (who, let's face it, have much to be modest about) should adopt it as our motto forthwith.
[color=darkblue][b][size=150]Nick[/size][/b][/color]

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BarryK
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Re: is it 4.12?

#32 Post by BarryK »

raffy wrote:Perhaps it is 4.12? Barry has mentioned his intention to create 4.2 many times already. If 4.10 gets updated for last-minute problems, then 4.11 will be released.

Just my 0.02c. :)
My plan was that the numbering would go back to having a dot between each digit.

4.1 is our current release.
4.1.1 is going to be a bugfix release, that I intend to bring out.
4.1.n these are either bugfixes or alphas or betas.
4.2 the next official release.

As I am targeting 4.1.1 for the near future, and want to move on to my UniPup work, I doubt that I will work on 4.2, so that's for you guys.
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Aitch
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#33 Post by Aitch »

Thanks, Nick, I knew it didn't look right, but was tired [& lazy]
The thing to avoid is ego and hubris and rushing into things.
abso-bloomin'-lutely :lol:

Barry, Thanks for clarifying, could you look in here? and maybe comment?

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 4&start=45

Aitch :)

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#34 Post by Lobster »

Below is Barry's comments (and links) from his blog 15 Oct 2008
http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/

Also note a second blog entry in which he states Dougal as a potential
developer for 4.2
With some other potential developers.

:)

Plans for the future of Puppy
Since I announced that I was taking a back seat, effective from release of 4.1 (well, 4.1.1 actually), there has been a lot of discussion and planning. I have not been following any of this, but now have some time to read through it. First step is to collect all the links, and here is what I found:

Puppy 4.2 - desktop and artwork
zigbert
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34331

4.2 meeting - here
Lobster
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34201

Establishing a formal community
tombh
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34134

Puppy Community
Lobster
http://puppylinux.org/wiki/archives/old ... -community

PuppyCommunity
Lobster
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=PuppyCommunity

Puppy's future
Bruce B
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32169

Puppy 4.2
Lobster
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=33454

Barry's retirement from Puppy
tronkel
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32078

How should Puppy be developed when Barry steps down?
disciple
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32192

DEVELOPERS to CONTRIBUTORS (STAKEHOLDERS)
ttuuxx
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=33484

Puppy Community Register
mysticmarks
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32183

Puppy Linux community repo is active on sourceforge
cb88
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32215

...I am now in the process of reading through all these links.

regarding numbering of versions, my plan was that the numbering would go back to having a dot between each digit:

4.1 is our current release.
4.1.1 is going to be a bugfix release, that I intend to bring out.
4.1.n these are either bugfixes or alphas or betas.
4.2 the next official 'final' release.

As I am targeting 4.1.1 for the near future, and want to move on to my UniPup work, I doubt that I will work on 4.2, so that's for you guys.


So we now know the first alpha version of Puppy 4.2
will be called 4.1.2 and is a simple improvement of the 4.1.1
release that Barry will produce

So we can plan for
something like:

4.1.1 Barry (patches and bug fixes for 4.1)
4.1.2 Community including Barry first improvements (new code / wish list / upgrades etc) first 4.2 Alpha
4.1.3 second 4.2 Alpha testing and checking new features
4.1.4 third 4.2 Alpha improvements based on feedback
4.1.5 feature lock preparing for first beta
4.1.6 4.2 first beta
4.1.7 4.2 second beta based on feedback
4,1.8 4.2 first release candidate
4.1.9 4.2 second release candidate

4.2 Next official Puppy
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

nic2109
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#35 Post by nic2109 »

Is there any merit in establishing a scheme whereby releases with different intentions are numbered differently? I'm thinking like Ubuntu where what they call LTS (for Long Term Support) releases have even numbers and more cutting edge and experimental have odd numbers.

This thinking could help us parse the suggestions into that which is for everyone and stands a good chance of being stable, and those that are nearer "the edge" so-to-speak.

Barry has given us 4.1 in both latest and retro kernel versions. I'd like to make the suggestion that we stick with the retro version for our Version 4 and declare it to be the "LTS" release, and move the latest kernel version to 5.0 and then leave it there for a time while we establish our working practices.

This is just an idea made available for comments and criticism.
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#36 Post by Lobster »

The Deep Thought team begins to emerge . . .

* Warren - Co-ordination
* Dougal - Creator of 4.2
* Cb88 - Sourceforge repository
* HairyWill - Programming and compiling support
* MU - Compiling support - including options (if required)
* Sigmund - Design and coding support
* Lobster - General dogsbody and publicity
* Caneri - File hosting
* Barry - Consultation, advice (semi-retired - feet up)

I know other people are involved and this will emerge
If you are offering other services relevant to 4.2
they can be offered here or on the 4.2 community page
Last edited by Lobster on Thu 16 Oct 2008, 00:59, edited 1 time in total.
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#37 Post by Caneri »

Hi Lobster et al,

I hope to soon announce a new server setup to be used for whatever the Puppy community needs.

The existing servers are (1) a virtual server (2) a dedicated box (3) the old account for redundant backup. Torrents will be supported on the new servers...hooray!!..klu9 will like that.

Both new servers will be very fast, but there may be a space issue (hard drives are smaller), so for a time I will need to have developers delete their old,unused,dated files and delegate what will be allowed on the new setup to fit active files on the drive. This delegation will be best done in the community so to whoever doesn't get enough space...we will need to put it to the team to decide.

I hope you all like the new setup...it's not finished yet but coming along. The servers will have our own certificate, dedicated ip addresses and a hardware firewall so this will help with security I hope and foster digital signing of packages.

Best,
Eric

EDIT: I am also looking for a top notch Apache administrator to handle the new server...servers are full root access and Apache isn't my forte so to speak. The candidate MUST prove their skill on this one to get access.
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#38 Post by Caneri »

To add,

I am still planning the "Live Help Desk" or to put it another way a button on the web page that allows a user to speak directly with an "operator" to solve issues they may have with their Puppy. I'm sure many people have seen "Live Chat" on many corporate sites.

I have run tests successfully so maybe this could be a helpful addition to Puppy.

The one thing is, we need "Operators" to answer help requests. If Lobster doesn't mind...would he start the process of acquiring people that would be willing to man a desk for certain periods of time. This will require commitment from those who accept a position..but it also could be a great learning experience for all of us.

This will also be a few months into the future so there's no rush.

What say you?

Best,
Eric

EDIT: The live help desk is in no way meant to compete with John Murga's forum...thanks John for the forum!!
[color=darkred][i]Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still.[/i]
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Help Desk

#39 Post by NathanO »

Eric,

Would the live help desk compete or complement the 'puppy' chat room?

There are some good people in the chat room, the know puppy very well.

NathanO

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#40 Post by Caneri »

Hi NathanO,

Well..there is no intent of competing with #puppylinux or this forum.

The idea is kind of a new approach for Puppy so we just will have to wait.

I've already thought of the irc/forum competition..but maybe we should try it to see if there is merit with a help desk.
If I find the help desk to be a problem it can be shut down in an instant so as to not dilute the base of knowledge.

Best,
Eric

EDIT: If the community does not want this..then it's a dead issue. I'm not forcing this..it's just an idea to be chewed on.
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#41 Post by Lobster »

If Lobster doesn't mind...would he start the process of acquiring people that would be willing to man a desk for certain periods of time
OK will start that tomorrow. . .
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
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#42 Post by Béèm »

As I understand Eric well, the live help desk has immediate response.
It's in the nature of it. I suppose it's a person to person communication.

The chat channel however is a matter of chance if there is a knowledgeable person available.
When you enter the chat, the welcoming message is clear.
Ask the question and wait patiently.
Also it is often a cacophony and answers on a question are difficult to follow. Well that's inherent of chatting.
But it has it's place as well.

My 0,02€
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
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#43 Post by Caneri »

Hi Beem,

#puppylinux is a major resource and I would not want to interfere with it's value.

That said...maybe another choice would be effective for people that are not using irc or this forum....hey, there are lots of hits on the servers and I'm sure they are all not here or irc.

That being said I think a test will tell the tail (tale..lol) of the tape.

If it turns out to be a dilution of knowledge and resources then it's not the way to go...but a test run should be done to find out...so let's hear the pros and cons for this as it will entail security and resources for sure.

Best,
Eric
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#44 Post by Béèm »

Just some loose things about this live help desk.
One with opening hours? 24 hours?
The communication vehicle? Skype? SIP? IM?
What about National Language?
Restricted to specific Puppy products or inclusion of derivatives?

And yes this forum is really plenty of information.
Probably quite some answers are there already, but so scattered and unorganized it's an almost impossible task to find the precise answer.
I don't want to say this source should go away, no it should stay.

Anyway this live help desk will be a huge project to setup.
Not mentioning the cost for infrastructure.

Interesting to follow what gives.
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#45 Post by Caneri »

Hi Beem,

Infrastructure is already setup. The test run (that was loaded on another server) was ok..alas I ran out of bandwidth.

Live Help will be open around the clock so all countries will be able to use it. Languages will be considered and hopefully available for specific operators and clients...I still need to learn more on languages but I'm sure it can be accommodated.

The communications will be done "in house" and although may be slow at times will be ready for email response and live chat at any and all times...hey it just runs...whoever is on as operator at whatever world time will be available "or not".

Restrictions will be on the server side..as for the public..well you know, will not be restricted..that's the point.

Best,
Eric
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#46 Post by Béèm »

Eric, thanks for the info. Look forward to the opening 'festivity'.
As for this:
Caneri wrote:I still need to learn more on languages
I suppose you are at least a master in English and French? :wink:
Bernard
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#47 Post by prach »

I think Puppy 4.2 need something like that.
https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu
I offer localization service relevant to 4.2 .
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=16

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#48 Post by nic2109 »

Lobster wrote:The Deep Thought team begins to emerge . . .

* Warren - Co-ordination
* Dougal - Creator of 4.2
* Cb88 - Sourceforge repository
* HairyWill - Programming and compiling support
* MU - Compiling support - including options (if required)
* Sigmund - Design and coding support
* Lobster - General dogsbody and publicity
* Caneri - File hosting
* Barry - Consultation, advice (semi-retired - feet up)

I know other people are involved and this will emerge
If you are offering other services relevant to 4.2
they can be offered here or on the 4.2 community page
This is a Very Good List.

I know that he can speak for himself (but may be too modest to) but has MU's plea for proper localisation been taken on board?

I'd like to propose a ground rule that nothing new is added until it's been properly localised. And then perhaps a second one which states that nothing new will be added until the existing content has had the same treatment.

A properly international Puppy would have considerable appeal. When running from a live CD without (or ignoring) a save file could ask which language as well as which keyboard and then configure itself accordingly.

Of course this will be followed by the question on whether you want a single (i.e. root) user set up or one with multiple users .........
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#49 Post by ttuuxxx »

Lobster wrote:The Deep Thought team begins to emerge . . .

* Warren - Co-ordination
* Dougal - Creator of 4.2
* Cb88 - Sourceforge repository
* HairyWill - Programming and compiling support
* MU - Compiling support - including options (if required)
* Sigmund - Design and coding support
* Lobster - General dogsbody and publicity
* Caneri - File hosting
* Barry - Consultation, advice (semi-retired - feet up)

I know other people are involved and this will emerge
If you are offering other services relevant to 4.2
they can be offered here or on the 4.2 community page
Don't forget to clue me into the list.
Sure I'm working on 5.0 Slackware, but it will closely follow 4.1+
I can offer packages and some graphics (Graphics take for ever to create, But I like doing it !! )
ttuuxxx
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#50 Post by Aitch »

Nick wrote:I'd like to propose a ground rule that nothing new is added until it's been properly localised. And then perhaps a second one which states that nothing new will be added until the existing content has had the same treatment.

A properly international Puppy would have considerable appeal. When running from a live CD without (or ignoring) a save file could ask which language as well as which keyboard and then configure itself accordingly.
Excellent sentiment, Nick, however the 'team' that were doing the 41 language Puppy [major success IMHO] is presently solely represented by Irihapeti, I believe, so if anyone would like to help....

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... &start=525

I think magerlab, Nathan F, & maybe muggins, have also 'input similar ideas'

not yet implemented

Aitch :)

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