4.2 Meeting - Here

Message

Aitch · #21 Post by **Aitch** » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 18:59

The other problem with 'meeting here' threads, is no-one knows what 'chorate' means

[minimum number of who's in attendance, for those who don't know]

Aitch

Lobster · #22 Post by **Lobster** » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 20:23

Aitch wrote: I can't remember who did 2.14R, but I gather there is plan to update it/2series to v4 but no idea who might be involved

Lobster, any clues?

Dougal and pakt
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 230#157230

The point is we have many available options and projects to encourage.
There is no reason why we can not release this 2.14R as a full Puppy release, with the 2.14R numbering
When Tronkels and Jeffs version of 3.xx becomes available we can get behind that as a release
End users are impressed by what looks good and works
not which engine drives it . . .
If NOP or Muppy or another puplet are modified in a way that the community can get behind, that is an option.

I would prefer Unipup as the basis for 4.2 but that is just one potential . . .
The important thing is to maintain the flexibility of a Developer led distro not a 'rule by committee' that decides what needs to be done but is incapable of implementing anything . . .

Stay frisky.

Aitch · #23 Post by **Aitch** » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 22:48

mm - don't know anything about unipup yet, - think big_bass is playing with it?

The important thing is to maintain the flexibility of a Developer led distro not a 'rule by committee' that decides what needs to be done but is incapable of implementing anything . . .

unfortunately/more correctly, fortunately, that is in the hands of the developer, so all this is just posturing & clubbing, seeing if camps can be set up IMHO

puppies do bite each other in growing up.......

Aitch

cb88 · #24 Post by **cb88** » Tue 14 Oct 2008, 01:46

I can't keep up with all this constant drama...

therefore count me out... I'll login every week (at least) or so to see if anybody wants on the SVN until there is a someone to take charge there (tombh or hairywill or caneri maybe they seem to be upto it on the web admin end)... and actually i wouldn't have any objection to maintaining it indefinitely and i think pissasgood may already be able to add users (I'll have to verify that)

I feel my time is better spent helping people and making some distro better (even if in a small way) than arguing here... and having a little fun while doing it. arguing is not my idea of fun

not to say you won't see me around here sometime but I don't feel like i want to be a part of this "community effort" aka community argument ...even back when puppy was at it's smallest and fastest i wanted better so the way things are going i don't see that happening.

hopefully you guys can figure out what you wanna do and center around it and not get all split between different ideas ... I'm just gonna say keep it real guys before i get off on a rant

Cb88

raffy · #25 Post by **raffy** » Tue 14 Oct 2008, 03:18

Lobster: If the 2.xx series incorporates some of the 4.xx updates, then it might be possible for 4.2 to be 2.xx based?
4.3 to be 3.xx based?

Sometimes the reader should be able to tell if the crustacean is just having fun (note that the big jump forward for a shrimp is backward).

But if that is a serious suggestion, then there is a problem because 4.1 is already taken. Probably start with 10. "10.1" would then mean "Puppy 1 revisited", and so on.

alienjeff · #26 Post by **alienjeff** » Tue 14 Oct 2008, 04:26

In re: version numbering - too freaking funny.

Lobster · #27 Post by **Lobster** » Tue 14 Oct 2008, 06:17

I can't keep up with all this constant drama...

When you come back in a week (perhaps sooner)
perhaps you can explain your idea further:

* Easy puppy apps access, eg.a single bz2 file or on sourceforge

You will find
the evolving description of Puppy 4.2 here:
http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/archives ... ep-thought

Deep Thought is based on Puppy 4.11 (not yet available - which is the patched version of 4.1)

Current plan:

* Update the 'P' series programs and utils, eg. Petch
* Use of default webpage
* Puppy 'included software' upgrades eg. Mtpaint
* Easy puppy apps access, eg.a single bz2 file or on sourceforge
* Improved eye candy as available eg. Zigbert scheme

capoverde · #28 Post by **capoverde** » Tue 14 Oct 2008, 11:52

cb88: I can't keep up with all this constant drama...

Usually it takes much more energy to harmonize several people's views than to actually reach a given scope; not surprisingly, 99% of known masterpieces come from just one man's mind. Although many other people have contributed to it since its birth, I still see Barry's Puppy Linux basically as a one-man masterpiece.

The key to this success, IMHO, is the ability to clearly see all main points at once with their respective weight, which requires both organizational and software-developing skills. Not easy for one man, probably even harder for a team... but quite possible with the sure-fire ingredient: fun!

cb88 · #29 Post by **cb88** » Tue 14 Oct 2008, 13:29

I have explained my ideas pretty extensivly perhaps overly so... in the myraid of threads on the topic of barry's retirement so read through them all again and feel my pain

</sarcasm>

@capoverde sure I think it might be doable... but I just don't find what we are doing now fun at all

big_bass · #30 Post by **big_bass** » Tue 14 Oct 2008, 16:19

[

ttuuxxx
people have been e-mailing me to take over, 3 series

would you be so kind to make public this list
and is that an example of your democratic system
of establishing a community vote ?

I think that so many people gasped at your statements
and sucked all the air out of this room and turned off any
possible real productive talks

let me offer a practical example of team work
one geek to another *those that are staying out of it

amigo and I have been talking about for several weeks
many technical details not arguing running tests and breaking new ground
for long term gains not sugar fixes
that get quick popular votes

and I urge others who have been turned off by the hype and drama to form together in pairs
or small groups if possible

and go back to being geeks having fun and advancing
linux

wow no wonder I see why even Barry himself is staying out of it bogs down the cpu cycles
when you could be breaking new ground

P.S I f anyone wants to help out and be productive
try out MU's new test iso he just compiled
that would help advance puppy
he needs testers
ftp://ks301128.kimsufi.com/testing/puppy4.1-k2.6.27/

cya
big_bass

nic2109 · #31 Post by **nic2109** » Tue 14 Oct 2008, 19:50

Aitch wrote:The other problem with 'meeting here' threads, is no-one knows what 'chorate' means

[minimum number of who's in attendance, for those who don't know]

Aitch

Sorry Aitch but the word you want is "quorate"

The Compact Oxford Dictionary wrote:quorate

• adjective Brit. (of a meeting) attended by a quorum.

where a 'quorum' is

The Compact Oxford Dictionary wrote:quorum

• noun (pl. quorums) the minimum number of members of an assembly or society that must be present at a meeting to make the proceedings valid.

See http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/quorum?view=uk

I agree with your sentiment actually, which is why I think that Lobster's early suggestion that we move in small steps is valuable. It would help establish a methodology where what works is retained, what fails is dropped, and the in-between is refined. We can think bigger thoughts later when a working model is established.

The thing to avoid is ego and hubris and rushing into things.

The Open Source world seems to be made up of a strange mixture of open-handed and hearted generosity combined with messianic certainty in the rightness of one's own opinion and the obligation to shove it in the face of anyone who asks - and many that don't.

But Barry is different. One of the most astonishing things about him is just how humble and ego-free he has been.

We will make most progress if we acknowledge straight away that if we see further it's only because we stand on giant's shoulders. And if the mighty Newton believed that then we (who, let's face it, have much to be modest about) should adopt it as our motto forthwith.

BarryK · #32 Post by **BarryK** » Tue 14 Oct 2008, 23:46

raffy wrote:Perhaps it is 4.12? Barry has mentioned his intention to create 4.2 many times already. If 4.10 gets updated for last-minute problems, then 4.11 will be released.

Just my 0.02c.

My plan was that the numbering would go back to having a dot between each digit.

4.1 is our current release.
4.1.1 is going to be a bugfix release, that I intend to bring out.
4.1.n these are either bugfixes or alphas or betas.
4.2 the next official release.

As I am targeting 4.1.1 for the near future, and want to move on to my UniPup work, I doubt that I will work on 4.2, so that's for you guys.

Aitch · #33 Post by **Aitch** » Wed 15 Oct 2008, 00:06

Thanks, Nick, I knew it didn't look right, but was tired [& lazy]

The thing to avoid is ego and hubris and rushing into things.

abso-bloomin'-lutely

Barry, Thanks for clarifying, could you look in here? and maybe comment?

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 4&start=45

Aitch

Lobster · #34 Post by **Lobster** » Wed 15 Oct 2008, 02:39

Below is Barry's comments (and links) from his blog 15 Oct 2008
http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/

Also note a second blog entry in which he states Dougal as a potential
developer for 4.2
With some other potential developers.

Plans for the future of Puppy
Since I announced that I was taking a back seat, effective from release of 4.1 (well, 4.1.1 actually), there has been a lot of discussion and planning. I have not been following any of this, but now have some time to read through it. First step is to collect all the links, and here is what I found:

Puppy 4.2 - desktop and artwork
zigbert
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34331

4.2 meeting - here
Lobster
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34201

Establishing a formal community
tombh
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34134

Puppy Community
Lobster
http://puppylinux.org/wiki/archives/old ... -community

PuppyCommunity
Lobster
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=PuppyCommunity

Puppy's future
Bruce B
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32169

Puppy 4.2
Lobster
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=33454

Barry's retirement from Puppy
tronkel
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32078

How should Puppy be developed when Barry steps down?
disciple
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32192

DEVELOPERS to CONTRIBUTORS (STAKEHOLDERS)
ttuuxx
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=33484

Puppy Community Register
mysticmarks
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32183

Puppy Linux community repo is active on sourceforge
cb88
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32215

...I am now in the process of reading through all these links.

regarding numbering of versions, my plan was that the numbering would go back to having a dot between each digit:

4.1 is our current release.
4.1.1 is going to be a bugfix release, that I intend to bring out.
4.1.n these are either bugfixes or alphas or betas.
4.2 the next official 'final' release.

As I am targeting 4.1.1 for the near future, and want to move on to my UniPup work, I doubt that I will work on 4.2, so that's for you guys.

So we now know the first alpha version of Puppy 4.2
will be called 4.1.2 and is a simple improvement of the 4.1.1
release that Barry will produce

So we can plan for
something like:

4.1.1 Barry (patches and bug fixes for 4.1)
4.1.2 Community including Barry first improvements (new code / wish list / upgrades etc) first 4.2 Alpha
4.1.3 second 4.2 Alpha testing and checking new features
4.1.4 third 4.2 Alpha improvements based on feedback
4.1.5 feature lock preparing for first beta
4.1.6 4.2 first beta
4.1.7 4.2 second beta based on feedback
4,1.8 4.2 first release candidate
4.1.9 4.2 second release candidate

4.2 Next official Puppy

nic2109 · #35 Post by **nic2109** » Wed 15 Oct 2008, 12:27

Is there any merit in establishing a scheme whereby releases with different intentions are numbered differently? I'm thinking like Ubuntu where what they call LTS (for Long Term Support) releases have even numbers and more cutting edge and experimental have odd numbers.

This thinking could help us parse the suggestions into that which is for everyone and stands a good chance of being stable, and those that are nearer "the edge" so-to-speak.

Barry has given us 4.1 in both latest and retro kernel versions. I'd like to make the suggestion that we stick with the retro version for our Version 4 and declare it to be the "LTS" release, and move the latest kernel version to 5.0 and then leave it there for a time while we establish our working practices.

This is just an idea made available for comments and criticism.

Lobster · #36 Post by **Lobster** » Wed 15 Oct 2008, 14:26

The Deep Thought team begins to emerge . . .

* Warren - Co-ordination
* Dougal - Creator of 4.2
* Cb88 - Sourceforge repository
* HairyWill - Programming and compiling support
* MU - Compiling support - including options (if required)
* Sigmund - Design and coding support
* Lobster - General dogsbody and publicity
* Caneri - File hosting
* Barry - Consultation, advice (semi-retired - feet up)

I know other people are involved and this will emerge
If you are offering other services relevant to 4.2
they can be offered here or on the 4.2 community page

Caneri · #37 Post by **Caneri** » Wed 15 Oct 2008, 15:08

Hi Lobster et al,

I hope to soon announce a new server setup to be used for whatever the Puppy community needs.

The existing servers are (1) a virtual server (2) a dedicated box (3) the old account for redundant backup. Torrents will be supported on the new servers...hooray!!..klu9 will like that.

Both new servers will be very fast, but there may be a space issue (hard drives are smaller), so for a time I will need to have developers delete their old,unused,dated files and delegate what will be allowed on the new setup to fit active files on the drive. This delegation will be best done in the community so to whoever doesn't get enough space...we will need to put it to the team to decide.

I hope you all like the new setup...it's not finished yet but coming along. The servers will have our own certificate, dedicated ip addresses and a hardware firewall so this will help with security I hope and foster digital signing of packages.

Best,
Eric

EDIT: I am also looking for a top notch Apache administrator to handle the new server...servers are full root access and Apache isn't my forte so to speak. The candidate MUST prove their skill on this one to get access.

Caneri · #38 Post by **Caneri** » Wed 15 Oct 2008, 18:46

To add,

I am still planning the "Live Help Desk" or to put it another way a button on the web page that allows a user to speak directly with an "operator" to solve issues they may have with their Puppy. I'm sure many people have seen "Live Chat" on many corporate sites.

I have run tests successfully so maybe this could be a helpful addition to Puppy.

The one thing is, we need "Operators" to answer help requests. If Lobster doesn't mind...would he start the process of acquiring people that would be willing to man a desk for certain periods of time. This will require commitment from those who accept a position..but it also could be a great learning experience for all of us.

This will also be a few months into the future so there's no rush.

What say you?

Best,
Eric

EDIT: The live help desk is in no way meant to compete with John Murga's forum...thanks John for the forum!!

NathanO · #39 Post by **NathanO** » Wed 15 Oct 2008, 19:34

Eric,

Would the live help desk compete or complement the 'puppy' chat room?

There are some good people in the chat room, the know puppy very well.

NathanO

Caneri · #40 Post by **Caneri** » Wed 15 Oct 2008, 19:51

Hi NathanO,

Well..there is no intent of competing with #puppylinux or this forum.

The idea is kind of a new approach for Puppy so we just will have to wait.

I've already thought of the irc/forum competition..but maybe we should try it to see if there is merit with a help desk.
If I find the help desk to be a problem it can be shut down in an instant so as to not dilute the base of knowledge.

Best,
Eric

EDIT: If the community does not want this..then it's a dead issue. I'm not forcing this..it's just an idea to be chewed on.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

4.2 Meeting - Here

fun comment

Re: is it 4.12?

Help Desk