Users and Developers - Symbiotic Relationship

[jonyo]

anyway it's up to folks to decide for themselves, you make a clear distinction in what you say vs what BK sez

[WhoDo]

and i say again users are the foundation of a distro

Self-delusion is pulling in your stomach when you step on the scales.

... and I'm not really fat! Thanks. Now I feel a lot better!

[Q5sys]

I'll just paraphrase my post from the other silly thread......

When a participant has to resort to insults and belittlement toward those who disagree the debate is lost

.

Sounds an awful lot like my comment a few days ago...

Why don’t you support AttackPup and help others of your ilk crack their neighbors network and steal their Internet access?

That sir, is what is called an 'ad hominem attack'. Short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity or invalidity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.

Ad hominem attacks are where you attack the person, and not the argument. If you can’t pick apart the argument being made, don’t go after the person. It makes you look stupid. If your response to my point is to attack me personally, you’ve lost. You’ve got no point to make, and you’re just embarassing yourself.

Abusive ad hominem attacks involve insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to invalidate your argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults your opponent's personal character or actions which have nothing to do with the logical merits of the your opponent's arguments or assertions

As for AttackPup, thanks for the free advertisement about it. It's a release intended for those within the Security community, those who wish to do security analysis of their own systems or those who are interested in learning about Computer Security. If you dont like those tactics... take that up with the greater Computer Security Community.

However in other news...

The fact that a Puppy Linux Foundation ever existed tells me that there is a need for governance. Why it ceased operation is of no consequence at this late date.

I'm sorry but this has GOT to be the dumbest thing I've heard you said in this and the other threads. Why something fell doesnt matter to you? As has been said already in this thread 'those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.'

Let me just subsitute topics here and show you how silly your arguement is.


The fact that a National Socialist Party Governance of a society (Nazi Party) ever existed tells me that there is a need for Nazi governance. Why Nazism ceased operation is of no consequence at this late date.


Sorry... but this thread has gone on long enough with a nazi reference.. so I figured it was about time.
And since I'm going there... I might as well go one more... 'Hitler was democratically elected.'

And lastly...

I assure you, I`m not being "dim"...
Read the "Official Lupu 5.25" thread....
Tell me Playdayz didnt bend over backwards...

Oh really, then why hasn't this been answered.

Right, mate. You post a reply on a thread in a forum, and just 6+ hrs later you indignantly ask why there hasn't been a response yet!!!

To take this one step further... why have my suggestions for the PuppyLinux FAQ gone ignored? I thought public governance and giving everyone a 'seat at the table' was what someone wanted. Why are you not letting me have a seat at the table you run? Can you say Hypocritical?
You're shouting that someone didnt respond to your questions within 6 hours... while you ignore comments on your work that have been made multiple times and you continue to ignore them. Can you say Hypocritical?

[jonyo]

and i say again users are the foundation of a distro

Self-delusion is pulling in your stomach when you step on the scales.

... and I'm not really fat! Thanks. Now I feel a lot better!

this strikes me as someone who understands the significance of a user-base
http://puppylinuxnews.org/home/p_9/[quote]Puppy Linux Mission Statement (Barry Kauler):

Puppy will easily install to USB, Zip or hard drive media
Booting from CD, Puppy will load totally into RAM so that the CD drive is then free for other purposes
Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
Puppy will boot up and run extraordinarily fast
Puppy will have all the applications needed for daily use
Puppy will just work, no hassles
Puppy will breathe new life into old PCs
[/quote] in particular
Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
Puppy will just work, no hassles

[puppyluvr]

Hello,
Another perspective...
As a musician, amongst other things, I have had to deal with many "Band" situations...The similarity cannot be ignored...
Everyone wants to decide what we play, what we play it with, and where we play it.. But it always comes down to the ONE guy who ACTUALLY takes the time to learn the new song, to set up the new equipment, to book the gig..
All fun and partying right...Except someone has to make sure the equipment gets loaded, the tab gets paid, and the band gets paid...
Sure, big time bands have a Manager, who takes care of all of that...
But we are not a professional band, cause we dont get paid..
So one of us has to do it...We used to have a guy that did it all...
Now we have to rotate...
If you dont like the way the current guy is doing it...well....

Learn the song, show the rest of the band how it goes...
Dig out the new equipment, and RTFM, learn how it works, and show the rest.. If they like it...cool...if not, well....
You wanna be Jimmy Page, you gotta strap on that Les Paul, learn how to play it, and be creative..
But no fan would tell Jimmy what, or how, to play...
Just be glad for what they were given....

And Puppy is the only band where you, as a fan, can start another band, and still use the original bands equipment....They will even help you set up, write songs, whatever... And you can even call your band Fred Zepplin..And they will still help you....

But if you cant play.....shut up and listen....

Puppy will just work, no hassles

Not if you let the crowd run the mixing board.....

[jonyo]

But if you cant play.....shut up and listen....

i doubt you speak for puppy linux and if you do, get lost

[WhoDo]

this strikes me as someone who understands the significance of a user-base
http://puppylinuxnews.org/home/p_9/...[snip]... in particular
Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
Puppy will just work, no hassles

... and immediately following your hand-picked quote comes this little gem:

How is Puppy organised?

It depends on what is trying to be achieved
Version 4.2 of Puppy is run by project leader Warren Willson
Individual projects are run by individuals or a core cell of individuals
Because Puppy is both flexible and fast, we can set up an organization as required for a given aim

Now tell me you didn't just ignore that bit, jonyo?

BTW, the author of that page is raffy, former titular head of the now defunct Puppy Linux Foundation; and he's still going strong behind the scenes! Go raffy!

It is a mistake to equate "linux newbies" with ordinary users and especially with extraordinary USERS. The latter usually know enough to make specific demands without bothering to learn enough to make the changes for themselves, or others. I rest my case, Yer Honar!

[WhoDo]

But if you cant play.....shut up and listen....

i doubt you speak for puppy linux and if you do, get lost

Says who? Are you presuming to speak for everyone else who doesn't speak for puppy linux? That would include me, wouldn't it? You don't speak for me!

BTW, personally I never did "get lost" ... I just couldn't understand all that stuff about weird experimental laboratories and killer castaways! Evangaline Lilly was HOT though!

[jonyo]

everyone has a voice here and i didn't say "we"
as an individual that's how i respond to take it or leave it types like you

[jonyo]

mission statement is one thing and of prime importance coming directly from BK, didn't even look at your stuff and it is another matter

[jonyo]

and to be honest I had no idea you were the type ..back in the day

I had great respect for you as a noob

i dropped out shortly after your wonders with 2.15 and just glanced at the mess that came after

and no wonder

back then, the take it or leave it was bigger than just you

[puppyluvr]

Hello,
I do not EVER presume to speak for Puppy...
Do you presume to speak for the Puppy user base???
For the thousands of users, some of whom, every day, post how great Puppy is and how helpful its Members are???

To clarify without metaphor....

If you cannot develop, be grateful for those who do, for nothing...
Appreciate the product, or learn how to make it how you want it...
Im not being rude, or mean...just realistic...
Do you complain if a gift isnt what you wanted???
Not how I was raised....
Do you let your kids "demand"??
Pisses me off, so they really wont get it then...
What ever happened to appreciation.......

And only John Murga can make me "get lost"....
I`ve pissed off better foes than thou...
I`m still here....

@Edit....I dont necessarily disagree with your ideas / desires...
Just the delivery.....

[jonyo]

no i can make you get lost

i can chose to be involved with you or ignore you

or go with someone else to my liking to whatever degree i chose

i already spoke on who i speak for

[RetroTechGuy]

We still don't have a contract with these devs, and they really owe us nothing.

devs that expect nothing can expect the same in return or whatever it is that they put out

This does not logically follow.

If I read your statement, you wish to imply that if the devs expect no feedback, that their tools/product will not be used. Clearly false. A good tool will be used regardless of whether feedback is expected, requested, or ignored.

Similarly, a poor tool/product won't be used, regardless of how much feedback is requested, addressed, or whatnot.

[puppyluvr]

Hello,
Sorry, missed that one...
Pray tell...
WhoDo you speak for????

[RetroTechGuy]

Kello,
Please clarify, as the only post by Aitch I find in this thread, is a link....

Please assemble the complaints in one post...
I truly do not see the "lack of cooperation" mentioned...

I'm afraid that lots of people ignore what Aitch has to say.

And the "Beggars cant be choosers" quote, attributed to some "From on high" or some such nonsense was R.TG., who, as I recall, is a USER, and not a developer...

That is correct. I as a USER say "beggars can't be choosers".

The devs here are great, and as always, I thank them for all of their hard work.

[jonyo]

puppyluvr i have a voice here like anyone else

[RetroTechGuy]

[quote="WhoDo"][quote="puppyite"]The line was drawn when average users were described as “beggars

[jonyo]

figures you're the troublemaker

[RetroTechGuy]

I assure you, I`m not being "dim"...
Read the "Official Lupu 5.25" thread....
Tell me Playdayz didnt bend over backwards...

Oh really, then why hasn't this been answered.

Because it's ill-mannered and insulting! Playdayz was the project coordinator! He made ALL of the decisions on policy, direction and inclusions. Yes, Mick was the lead developer. He did a great job! Playdayz was the driver - ultimate arbiter or dictator if you prefer - and he DID take on board each and every suggestion. Some people just cannot accept that NO is also an answer!!!

And I am using one of Playdayz fine products right now (5.20). My thanks to Playdayz and his fine team!

And, WhoDo, I liked 4.21 as well (and I liked 4.12 also, and I liked 4.3.1 also...) -- so thanks to all of you as well...