Riots in the UK

[Bruce B]

I don't know anything particular how it works over the pond. From what I read and how I try and make sense of it, it seems David Cameron has an Elephant in the room

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[nooby]

What is symbolized with the elevated phantom then? Maybe poor grammar.

I try again. What does the E stand for in this situation?

"Elephant in the room" is an English metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss.[1]

It is based on the idea that an elephant in a room would be impossible to overlook; thus, people in the room who pretend the elephant is not there have chosen to avoid dealing with the looming big issue.

[tlchost]

It's all relative....increase the size of the room and the elephant seems smaller.

[nooby]

increase the size of the room

We need a new frontier, a new America to start up biz on. Sweden is one of the most underpopulated countries. Lots of room for unemployed to start their own biz in. Cameron could export the unemployed to Sweden.

That would make life in England less crowded?

Here is a really wild idea. Some "futurists" love the idea that we should "Terra form Mars" to open up a frontier there.

What them not consider is the enormous cost to move things to Mars.

But we already have Mars here on Earth. We have vast areas that is sand and stone and almost no water. One could terra form all the deserts on earth using the unemployed for that needed work?

[Dave_G]

I suspect that Cameron got confused and exported them to Swindon instead.

[tlchost]

But we already have Mars here on Earth. We have vast areas that is sand and stone and almost no water. One could terra form all the deserts on earth using the unemployed for that needed work?

I think you should submit that idea to Mexico....if it catches on, the US could spend less money on the Border Patrol.

[nooby]

Being a Sea Pirate maybe is an exciting work to rise up to the top in.
One can teach them to be CEO on some heavy armed ship that roam the big seas and confiscate goods

I mean why loot the nearest shop when you can kidnap a Super Ton Ship and get millions for giving it back?

[Dougal]

We need a new frontier, a new America to start up biz on. Sweden is one of the most underpopulated countries. Lots of room for unemployed to start their own biz in. Cameron could export the unemployed to Sweden.

That would make life in England less crowded?

Well, considering how they keep bringing immigrants in, they don't seem to realize it's crowded...

The funny thing about the way the cops dealt with it is that they didn't actually bother to interfere with the rioters, but then they go and arrest the opportunists, who just go past the next day and see a smashed up shop and go inside and maybe take a bottle of water or something -- so most of the real criminals get away, but mindless passers-by end up in prison for six months...
Yet another genius move by the Brits, soon to join the Greeks and Egyptians in history's graveyard for formerly great nations (now digging through their past in an attempt to bring tourists).

[Dave_G]

Dougal,

Spot on.

[Bruce B]

We had a riot in LA.

The LAPD refused to do anything but protect themselves, firemen and emergency workers.

For about three, probably more like five days we had no police in the 'hot spots'

Some citizens took up arms, not a big deal because they fired warning shots. Warning shots actually worked. The net result was some streets didn't get burned. Sort weird to drive thru after and see some streets in pristine condition, while surrounding streets have been put to waste.

With sections of the City being burned and plundered and no cops, we still had a governor who sent in the National Guard.

I don't know if anyone bothered to ask the National Guard if they fire warning shots. They fired at least couple shots, and we had dead on the scene. I suppose the National Guard wasn't trained to fire warning shots.

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[sc0ttman]

Just a few kids nicking trainers and stuff, a few worse incidents but it's basically a bit of organised petty theft and criminal damage ... not really the drama people outside the UK seem to think it is... And we've been a FORMERLY great nation for years!

[Dave_G]

Bruce B,

Pity Arnie wasn't Governor at the time, he could have taken the whole lot on single handed.

Seriously though, if a situation is bad enough to warrant sending in the National Guard,
then I don't see why they should waste their time firing warning shots.

[Dave_G]

I guess that's why there has never been rioting in Texas, they have ol' Walker Ranger, the one and only Chuck.

Do you know why Chuck Norris never wears a watch?
He has no need to, he decides what time it is.

[Bruce B]

Dave_G

I just did some brief research to memory refresh. We had 4,000 National Guard on patrol.



I think the guy on the left would use the thing he's holding in his hand if his country expected him to.

Also, notice the absense of rioters. For that matter notice the absense of much of anyone in the background.

Bruce

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[gcmartin]

Forgive me for replying here, but there seems to be a disconnect between how things are attempted in Europe and how things are done in America.

European countries are desparately trying to forge a "union" in its cooperative approach to things. Sure there are nay-sayers, but, there is real efforts going on to try to get things improving.

Since the Berlin wall has come down there is every effort to forge a union of all countries of Europe. (I know about the memorial being built to represent how bad things were during the cold war, as a reminder to not revisit that dark age). The countries in Europe are wrestling with increasing population trends (this is NOT to be thought of as us versus them as some politicians have put it), but "populations" is a key word.

When the young unarmed man was shot by police in London, it was a trigger that the people had seen all too often and they reacted. As it turns out, there was some tough decisions that had to be made to bring things under control. And, you can best believe, as UK is very good at, there will be changes made to insure that this kind of thing, not only will not develop (police), but, also, in changing the makeup of the population distribution, its education, and its opportunity so that this kind of thing will not repeat. This resulted from neglect and ignoring the surrounding conditions.

There are some stark differences between the European (UK) response to this and what happened in US, when they killed several key US community leaders (Martin KIng, and Robert Kennedy). In England the military has rubber bullets and water cannons. US used full military weaponry. In Europe, our walls are torn down. In US, they built walls. In UK, we are embracing and making efforts to incorporate immigrants. In US, they jailed them, force them to work in jailed communions by giving them long sentences, then deport them often times to the wrong country.

We are human, we are humanitarian, and we respect the lives of our population when we are bringing things under control. Europeans have a markedly different view of how things are to be addressed. And racism in not one of those in discussions by any known groups in UK; nor is it widespread. We fully recognize that there are differing races, but we don't have the racial hatreds seen.

So most of all, you will NOT see European military response gunning down its citizens. Nor will you see any community response using weaponry as is mentioned. But, we will restore order and immediately begin addressing how to insure it does NOT repeat.

I am NOT bashing US as I am trying to insure that there may be something to learn from the approaches that are being enacted in England and what will probably come of it. UK is already picking the brains of some of the best minds for plans, backup plans, and backup to backup plans as well as looking at ways to improve the conditions leading up to this. It appears firstly, that the police will be railed in and secondly, the community will be put to work and dispersed.

Maybe as Nooby attempts to share, we can mimic this in other "developed" nations for their underemployed and under-served to insure that this does not repeat in Europe's developed countries.

Maybe, just maybe ...

I am NOT a sympathizer and I do NOT endorse what happened. But, as what England is very good at, these conditions will get addressed. Its in "her" best interest.

Oh, and please, NOone take this post as an attack on any one here. It is not. Its simply and merely a point-of-view that hopefully educates.

[Dave_G]

gcmartin,

I don't think anyone should get upset with you, after all they are your viewpoints
and you are entitled to them.

The USA certainly does get a lot wrong but sending in the National Guard to maintain
law and order in times of chaos or natural disasters is the right thing to do.
How often we see looters taking advantage of a situation like after mass devastation
after a hurricane and whilst some poor guy is tending to his destroyed dwelling,
scum bags are busy looting his business he has worked for years at
to build up.

Europe on the other hand seem to have not learned from it's history and still
embarks on a policy of appeasement.

Just for the record, I am neither American nor British but I am European.

[Bruce B]

When the young unarmed man was shot by police in London, it was a trigger that the people had seen all too often and they reacted. As it turns out, there was some tough decisions that had to be made to bring things under control.

I don't see the tough decision. Do nothing and let them burn your street. Protect your street and they find another street to burn and plunder. That's all we can do as individuals.

The government can decide how many streets to give them I suppose. Tough decision, how do they decide which streets?

Suffice to say the criminals are not going after the elite. If they were, government knows exactly what to do.

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[sc0ttman]

When the young unarmed man was shot by police in London, it was a trigger that the people had seen all too often and they reacted. As it turns out, there was some tough decisions that had to be made to bring things under control.

I don't see the tough decision. Do nothing and let them burn your street. Protect your street and they find another street to burn and plunder. That's all we can do as individuals.

It's England, not the Wild West... A good left hook (and maybe a knife in extreme cases) are almost always enough to sort someone out!

gcmartin is right, it'll be sorted without half the fuss required in the US.
'Free' European nations do not attack their own people in the way the US does.

And on a separate note, did anyone notice how when it was the University students 'protesting' about Uni fees in London, causing damage, being idiots, etc, there was no where near as much hysteria...

But, well, get some 'working class ethnic types' who kick off and all of a sudden our 'youth' are apparently all scum.... The worst part is that the idiotic middle-class university fee 'protesters' all came from nice homes and families and can to go back to them anytime - but listen to those exact same people now - full of hatred and bile about these current 'riots'...

It seems it's OK for dopey, middle class yobs to go about their business destroying things as long as they go back to being nice, mediocre, obedient little pussies again when finished rioting...

But when it's working class people... OH NOOOO!! Typical England

[Bruce B]

gcmartin is right, it'll be sorted without half the fuss required in the US
'Free' European nations do not attack their own people in the way the US does.

Thank goodness, for a number of centuries now, I've been wondering if European countries would ever get things sorted out. Things are fine, we don't have to go over and give our blood to save your sweet asses from each other ever again. (i hope)


Thanks for the heads up about the US attacking us. It hits close to home for me.

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[Bruce B]

And on a separate note, did anyone notice how when it was the University students 'protesting' about Uni fees in London, causing damage, being idiots, etc, there was no where near as much hysteria...

But, well, get some 'working class ethnic types' who kick off and all of a sudden our 'youth' are apparently all scum.... The worst part is that the idiotic middle-class university fee 'protesters' all came from nice homes and families and can to go back to them anytime - but listen to those exact same people now - full of hatred and bile about these current 'riots'...

It seems it's OK for dopey, middle class yobs to go about their business destroying things as long as they go back to being nice, mediocre, obedient little pussies again when finished rioting...

But when it's working class people... OH NOOOO!! Typical England :roll:

Then on the other hand we might have a few things in common after all. Hate to admit it, but maybe gcmartin is right we about us being all related.

Darn, darn and super darn. Gcmartin, I want to keep you as family, but there are other relatives I want to divorce. Suggestions?

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