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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff)
Organization of Additional Software
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Thu 27 May 2010, 18:08    Post_subject:  Organization of Additional Software  

First of all, I want to establish a procedure to deal with any perceived miscategorization. I do make mistakes, and you probably know your packages better than I do, so if you feel that a thread has been miscategorized feel free to take one of the following actions:
  • You can PM me directly with a link to the thread, which section you feel it should have been put into, and why.
  • Alternately, you can post that same information to this thread.


And just so that it's clear - I do expect people to start posting new threads to the proper categories now. I won't bite anybody's head off for posting threads into this main area, especially if they don't know which category to use. But I certainly don't want anybody thinking they need to post here and let me sort it. I would much prefer the opposite! Wink



Second, if you have any complaints about how I've categorized things in general, please state them here. The structure is still evolving. For example, I am beginning to suspect we need a category for software development related packages. Currently they are split between Documents, System, and Utilities, depending on what they do and which way my fan was blowing at the time.... But I don't want to have too many sections either.

Also, I am trying to decide what to do about the un-categorized area. Part of me wants to force self-categorization by putting all the unsorted things into a new subsection named "Unsorted" and then locking it. Then with the main area cleaned out, it could be reserved for only the more general overview type threads, like this one, so that people would have a place to ask questions and stuff. But software posts would not be allowed except in the categories.

I'm not sure whether that's a good idea though, so I want to leave that up for discussion for now. Might be better to just leave it be.

Oh, and if you have old threads from before April that I haven't sorted that you want sorted, use the same procedure for miscategorization. I probably won't ever get around to sorting out all of the posts, but I do intend to eventually do at least everything since the beginning of 2010.

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 31 May 2010, 20:58    Post_subject:  

Oops - posted mine and the saw your message. Sorry. Mine should go into security area.
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Wed 23 Jun 2010, 23:30    Post_subject:  

So, I'm thinking we may need the following additional sections:
  • Educational
  • Omnibus/Repository
  • Software Development
Thoughts?

And I have absolutely no idea what to do with stuff like Qbrew.



I have some of my own stuff that needs attention for now, but maybe next week or so if I wind up with a bunch of free time in between working I want to take care of setting up the "Unsorted" section and then starting on sorting the rest of the threads that originated in 2010. (I'm not going to worry about the older stuff - things that get bumped will get moved, but things that don't get bumped will stay unsorted unless I get a request to move them, with links to the threads.) I will partially lock "Unsorted" so that no new threads can be created there, but replies to existing threads can still be made, bumping them up to the top of the list and resulting in them eventually getting sorted.

As for this general area, I will be leaving it open for general comments and stuff that people have no idea how to sort. When things like Qbrew come up that I can't figure out either, I'll leave them here (I'll be moving such things from 2010 here too, not leaving them in "Unsorted"). Eventually enough of them will accumulate that I can find patterns and create/decide-on appropriate categories for them. So in the long run all software threads posted from 2010 and later would be sorted - "Unsorted" shouldn't grow and will only hold old stuff.


This isn't set in stone. I definitely won't start working on it until at least next Monday. So if you have issues with it please speak up. It's usually easier to fix mistakes before they happen...

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11164
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Thu 24 Jun 2010, 01:21    Post_subject:  

Thanks for trying to bring some order to the Additional Software section, Pizzasgood. Smile

Perhaps it would help people decide which is the correct category for their programs if each category name was followed by a short description or clarification. For instance the proposed new category of Educational: Programs intended to teach, or to help one learn or study a specific subject. (Just a guess.)

Some Educational programs might conceivably also qualify for the Software Development category, if they teach programming..

I'm not sure how to explain or describe the proposed category of Omnibus/Repository.... Confused
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Thu 24 Jun 2010, 01:55    Post_subject:  

Actually, if you look the sections, they all have either examples of appropriate software or a description.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=11

As for Omnibus/Repository, that would be for threads where people posted a bunch of software that all belongs to different categories, like this one, and for threads about package repositories that people have set up.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5386
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jun 2010, 01:52    Post_subject:  

How about calling Omnibus/Repository this:

Other Software/package Repositories
Other locations of Puppy software or collections of software.

Example:
http://puppylover.netsons.org/dokupuppy

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26975

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=54040

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=55839
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11164
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jun 2010, 23:40    Post_subject:  

Pizzasgood wrote:
Actually, if you look the sections, they all have either examples of appropriate software or a description.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=11

Well, so many people seem to post to a thread without reading even the first few posts of the thread that I thought it might help to put the description right in the thread title where they'd have to read it. Laughing It's really discouraging. People are all the time asking for help in the How To section. I guess they read the first two words of the section title, "How To....," and figure they know all they need to know about it before posting. Sad
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jun 2010, 02:26    Post_subject:  

Hmm, "omnibus" is a fun word, but I guess it makes sense to use a more obvious term, especially for non-native English speakers.

Other Software/package Repositories is a little ambiguous - it could be accidentally read like this: "(Other Software) / (Package Repositories)" instead of "Other (Software/Package) Repositories".

Maybe something like Package Collections / Repositories.


I think "How To" is a little different - the easy misunderstanding is over a fairly important element. So maybe that section does warrant renaming to something along the lines of "How-To (solutions only, no questions)".

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Fri 16 Jul 2010, 17:43    Post_subject:  

Ok, I've done the rearrangement needed to shift all the unsorted stuff into the "Unsorted" thread. I think I will rename that to "Uncategorized" though. And yes it probably needs a slightly better description.

I have been negligent lately on sorting things. I will fix this soon, and add those two new sections as well. But not today. The AC in the second story of our house - the part where I live - is broken. It's 97F up here. I've been up here working all day and I'm about to call it quits early for the week and flee downstairs where it's almost cold by comparison. Grab some ice cream and read a book or something.

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nancy reagan

Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Sat 17 Jul 2010, 11:07    Post_subject: Now we can;t see the new posts  

First of: sorting additional software is a good thing in itself, but sometimes you can go too far.

Wondered already whether the INDEX covered almost the whole page and therefore could see new posts or replies.

Suggest to go back to yesterday's layout, so that new replies and topics are showed again..
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Minnesota

Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sat 17 Jul 2010, 16:28    Post_subject: Pardon my ignorance  

Pardon my ignorance.. but I do not understand the categories...and or a real need to for them.. let me explain a bit.... as a casual user who loves to play. been in this business many years... I read the forum daily..... I have never made heads or tails out of the indexes... I simply use the Search page and type in TODAY... usually that gets me the latest posts... OK.. might not be the best way to get all the news.. but it seems to work. In other words... it gets me what is active, what is most current in PUPPY land.

In the case where I need a specific type of post ... I also use the search either directly or with the aid of Google to find a post.

Just looked at the new categories... looks neat.. A few questions.... where do I find what PUPPY I might want to use? How do I get or find out what are the current puppies... and I might add there are a lot of official versions and new development versions are now called.... "Puppy Derivatives"..... sorry but for a new person seeing the index for the first time.... I would not have any idea where to go without spending a lot of time probing layer after layer.

How does bug reports work.. well that is not a good questions? What I am alluding to... is LUCI for instance has a Bug report section and entry under bugs.. yet as it is in active development.... most current bugs are in the development page? Fifty percent of the 214x posting is either bugs and fixes or misc information. Which of course brings us back to where do I find in the index a version for OLD hardware for instance....or cutting edge version information... such as Fatdog64 or software for a multiprocessor system.

Thanks for hearing me out.
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sat 17 Jul 2010, 17:28    Post_subject:  

@Minnesota: Well, this thread is more about the Additional Software section. Organizing it so that people can find software more easily. I felt we needed more organization than just one huge category because it quickly fills up with large numbers of posts. Such a structure is fine if you just want to see what the latest additions are. But if you're trying to see which spreadsheet programs are availible, or which games we have, etc. it isn't so great. As for Puppy development, I'm not really involved with it anymore and haven't been keeping up. I don't know where they're working and what-not. If they ask for different organization of those parts of the forum I would be glad to oblige, but not being a part of the flow of development myself, I can't do a good job organizing it myself.

@nancy reagan: Yes, the number of categories has been bugging me as well. Maybe we could consolidate them somewhat. Here's what I've got so far:
Code:
Desktop
   Eye Candy
Education
Games
Multimedia
Network
Office
System
   Drivers
Technical
   Security/Privacy

Repositories / Software Collections
Unsorted Software
Requests

That's 11, vs. the 18 we have now (20 when I add the Educational and Repository sections). Business and Documents would be combined into "Office", Graphics would be merged into Multimedia, Internet would be merged into Network, Utilities into System, Filesystem into Desktop, and the Engineering and Virtualization would combine into Technical (which would also provide a home for software-development related packages). The Drivers section would become a subcategory of System, Eye Candy would become a subcategory of Desktop, and the Security category would become a subcategory of Technical.

Some of the things in Utilities would probably wind up in Technical or maybe some other places instead of System, when appropriate.

Thoughts?

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5386
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul 2010, 04:15    Post_subject:  

Do not forget what started this. It was hard to find stuff. I think the way it is divided now is great. You start recombining stuff and you are going back to the way it was. The categories you have now are used everyplace that software programs are listed. They are well known and understood. If you add more categories, so what! If something does not seem to fit in any category that is listed, it has to go someplace.
Example:
REQUESTS

I like being able to go to say internet category to find a web browser. What you are talking about I would have to go to
network
internet
and I would need to know that the internet stuff would be under network.

You will never have 100% agreement, but input good or bad will make you think and do a better job.
From me, thanks for what you are doing!
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nancy reagan

Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul 2010, 08:53    Post_subject: But do not keep the latest posts away from us  

You can categorize as much as you like, but do not keep the latest posts unsorted away from us. We can decide for ourselves how we value ut.

Was already wondering why there was so little new software but apprently it is kept away from us.

So you can do the one and still do the other: categorize as much as you want BUT leave the posts as it were, the best of both worlds.

Each individual considers each packages differently so might miss packages by looking in the wrong categories.

Let us decide for ourselves: using your index and or all the posts.

B. Some packages can be categorized under 5 categories.

Pburn: dvd authoring, burning etc, K Office: wordprocessor spreadsheet imaging etc.

Yes I like the sorting but miss the older as well !!!!
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nancy reagan

Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul 2010, 09:12    Post_subject: What if somebody asks advice reports results on a package et  

Again keep on categorizing as much as you feel like it (Keep in mind YOUR CATEGORY IS NOT MINE OR HIS.)



but STOP THIS keeping away all the newer and older posts REFERRING TO NEWER AND OLDER SOFTWARE so nobody sees who is asking for help or giving advice or explanation etc.
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