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Puppy 4.2 Deep Thought Development
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 00:27
by WhoDo
I have started this thread to consolidate the development of Puppy 4.2 into a single thread so people will know what is happening with the project. PLEASE no requests for inclusions in this thread - only questions pertinent to the development effort.
I had planned to have a Puppy 4.2Alpha out by Christmas. A trip to Melbourne and back to retrieve my daughter and her furniture (24 hours driving in 2 days) may have made that all but impossible. We'll see. It has been a while since I built a Puppy from Unleashed and Barry has made some changes in the meantime. I'll try to get some of it done at least.
So far I have installed and tested Puppy 4.1.2, built the Unleashed tree and downloaded later patches, fixes and application updates. I have also tested it with Zigbert's Pwidgets and tiny wallpapers, and 90% built an orange icon theme to supplement the look.
I would appreciate it if Dougal, rarsa, MU, tempestuous, Pizzasgood, plinej, tronkel, rerwin and any of the other devs, who might be contributing something to Puppy 4.2, can indicate what they are working on here so I can better coordinate the efforts of all concerned.
Cheers, gang.
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 01:53
by Lobster
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 02:22
by ttuuxxx
I updated the package manager, Now it has dependencies re-checking like the old one. That feature was dropped when Barry made the newer version of the package manager. I basically hacked the petget manager and added the newer dotpup manager and the install links that barry added to the newer version. Plus added some frames around the Info, so its has a more organized look to it
to test it, Install the package, fixmenus, and then just click menu/setup/puppy package manager
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 04:18
by ttuuxxx
Hi Guys I just uploaded a cleaned up looking version , download above, This is the second version. It has a better flow with Frames around the info.
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 07:00
by magerlab
I think also the menus must be in three -four( or more) languages by default ( the menu itself and application entries)
i can provide russian lines for that
with new ( 27 kernel) localization will be easier because it supports only unicode now
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 11:58
by Aitch
unashamed plug
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=36631
ttuuxxx, if you could consider helping with any internationalisation, I'd return the genius complement
Nice Package manager, dependency check will be welcomed by many
Aitch
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 12:19
by 01micko
@ttuuxxx, I like it!!!
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 12:48
by ttuuxxx
Glad you like it guys
Hope WhoDo also will
As internationalisation goes, If I have WhoDo's ok, and with your support with the words, There is no reason why I couldn't substitute them in the code.
If there is a easier way please inform me of a link to do my homework with, because the only other time I had to change a language was with FirePup and that was a simple change in the localization plugin.
I might spice it up a little.
ttuuxxx
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 13:10
by ttuuxxx
Aitch wrote:dependency check will be welcomed by many
Aitch
I've missed it so much and helps a lot with building packages for forum releases. I use it all the time, maybe 50 times a week. Its really a needed application by default for many package releasers:) and just the average learning users alike.
ttuuxxx
Puppy 4.2 Deep Thought Development
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 16:51
by Gorilla no baka
Hi there ....
Just few quick qustions:
Will the new Puppy be able to support Jumbo frames???
What is this ideia with the menus which must be in three -four( or more) languages by default?? How much will this add to the bloat?? (I prefer english version only menus And i am sure that most of the guys here prefers it this way as well...)
Speaking about languages, if you need help with translation for Romanian and Spanish language for documentation or something else i could help with just gimme a shout, awright??
I really like Gxine from the 215CE version with those sound drivers which makes my Old NecLavie LL750/9 laptop`s sound really deafening.
Somehow Puppy 4.1 it is not SO loud...It is loud but not at that level...
Will the new 4.2 Deep Thought come with those sound drivers as well??
What about the browser?? What kind of browser will you use..??
Sorry for going so long....You guys are doing a wonderfull job and i really apreciate it...
Merry Christmas to every one....
Gorilla no Baka..
Posted: Wed 24 Dec 2008, 20:28
by magerlab
adding other languages to menus will not cause any fat
because it's just adding some lines in a text file
like this from /usr/share/desktop-directories/Desktop
[Desktop Entry]
Encoding=UTF-8
Name=Desktop
Name[ru]=Рабочий
Posted: Thu 25 Dec 2008, 21:33
by WhoDo
ttuuxxx wrote:Glad you like it guys
Hope WhoDo also will
He does.
ttuuxxx wrote:As internationalisation goes, If I have WhoDo's ok, and with your support with the words, There is no reason why I couldn't substitute them in the code.
I don't have a problem with internationalisation of the menus, because it only involves modified .desktop files in /usr/share/applications directory.
OTOH, FULL internationalisation involves much more than that, and really should be in a dotpet or sfs add-on IMHO.
Posted: Thu 25 Dec 2008, 21:55
by Aitch
OTOH, FULL internationalisation involves much more than that, and really should be in a dotpet or sfs add-on IMHO.
I couldn't agree more, however I feel it important for development lead to be given in inspiring this important transition
Once devs see this, [International SFS], as a future for Puppy, I'm sure it will be as easily catered for, as new hardware, perhaps
So, please post support for this, WhoDo
Many Thanks, & Happy Xmas to all Puppy Devs
Here's to another good year!
Aitch
Puppy 4.2 First Looks
Posted: Mon 29 Dec 2008, 23:04
by WhoDo
I thought I might start people salivating by offering some screen mockups of Puppy Deepthought 4.2
These are built on Puppy 4.1.2 as 4.2 is still in pre-Alpha but they will give some idea of where the project is going.
=== Deepthought Original ===
=== Deepthought Orange-Stardust ===
=== Deepthought Blue-Stardust ===
Enjoy!
Posted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 14:43
by ttuuxxx
I was just thinking guys, If one of our skilled developers wanted a small task really something that would be handy is a filter script that every time a image thumbnail is previewed that it compares against a preset limit like 10MB max, once it hits 10MB it automatically empties the /root/.thumbnails directory. Some people especially new users probably don't know about this hidden directory and could be slowing there pc's down a lot. I know once you reset your pc it gets emptied, but people like myself which run live and leave it on 24/7 for like 3 weeks before resetting would have a heck of a lot, I've seen over 200MB of images in mine, really I should send Rox-filer a email about it also. We have talked about it before but nothing ever came out of it, maybe this time
Thanks
ttuuxxx
Posted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 18:46
by droope
WhoDo wrote:I don't have a problem with internationalisation of the menus, because it only involves modified .desktop files in /usr/share/applications directory.
OTOH, FULL internationalisation involves much more than that, and really should be in a dotpet or sfs add-on IMHO.
Translating the menu doesn't do much. Any person can read the english menu... The real issue comes when a non-english speaker wants to -for example- configure his network, or maybe his printer. Indications come there, but aren't readable for him...
The only thing that is needed in order to perform a full internationalization that isn't wasted every version change is to localize the scripts. Once localized, the .mo file would simply need to be modified a bit.
It is important that these scripts, once localized, are used in newer versions... Can someone guarantee that this happens once versions change?. If not, it is useless to localize them. (This has already happened before)
I think there isn't a lot more to translate, is there? Besides all aplications, I mean. I'm quite a noob
Cheers
Posted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 19:22
by ttuuxxx
For a full translation lets look at Glibc+Gcc they have a combined 11MB of bin files that don't compress really all that much, we would lose Gxine, abiword, Gnumeric because puppy goal has always been keep it under 100MB. We couldn't even use a full utf8 in English because of the bins would put us over the limit. What I've seen is a lot of community support for localizations and remastering of puppy just for that purpose:)
The most I could foresee in the future is the .desktop files being change. And if people want scripts changed, then if they give me the translations, I'll change the text? We are 4 mb under the 100MB threshold . But addition maybe sfs translation packs could be an idea. But we do need support from the other languages to translate. I've used online translation web pages before and they are really bad. I hope this helps, I'm not trying to stomp on anything, actually I'm trying to build some support so things like this might happen, but just in a way that follows puppy's main path. Well thats how I feel about it, Maybe not everyone.
ttuuxxx
Posted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 19:55
by WhoDo
ttuuxxx wrote:I've seen over 200MB of images in mine, really I should send JWM a email about it also. We have talked about it before but nothing ever came out of it, maybe this time
That would be a ROX problem, rather than JWM, wouldn't it? Either way, it is worth trying to fix for 4.2 IMHO.
Posted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 20:11
by ttuuxxx
yes your right Rox it is, a typo ,LOL I've been dealing a lot with Icewm and Jwm, thats whats been on my mind.
ttuuxxx
Posted: Wed 31 Dec 2008, 02:14
by droope
ttuuxxx wrote:For a full translation lets look at Glibc+Gcc they have a combined 11MB of bin files that don't compress really all that much, we would lose Gxine, abiword, Gnumeric because puppy goal has always been keep it under 100MB. We couldn't even use a full utf8 in English because of the bins would put us over the limit. What I've seen is a lot of community support for localizations and remastering of puppy just for that purpose:)
The most I could foresee in the future is the .desktop files being change. And if people want scripts changed, then if they give me the translations, I'll change the text? We are 4 mb under the 100MB threshold . But addition maybe sfs translation packs could be an idea. But we do need support from the other languages to translate. I've used online translation web pages before and they are really bad. I hope this helps, I'm not trying to stomp on anything, actually I'm trying to build some support so things like this might happen, but just in a way that follows puppy's main path. Well thats how I feel about it, Maybe not everyone.
ttuuxxx
Nono, i think we are not understanding each other. The right move here, in order to have the possibility to translate it, is that the program itself does not contain the text, and that the text is kept in a separate .mo file.
Then, if more people like me are willing to have a fully translated puppy and work towards it, they will be able to translate it themselves (and changes won't be lost every version change!).
This is what i speak of:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26790
