The Official Release of Lucid 5.25 (Lucid Five Twenty-Five)

[Brown Mouse]

I have just installed the video driver as suggested in quickpet now Skype video works fine. See attached graphic. I am running live and have not created a savefile yet.

Wish I could say the say the same smokey01.
I installed the correct nvidia driver in all versions of Lucid pups plus I tried other brands of webcams but still no luck with Skype video.

[mikeslr]

Hi all,
Posting from Luci 256 on a Dell Dimension 4600, 2 Gb Ram. Haven't discovered any problems.

A couple days ago, Lobster grumbled --odd vision, actually I think they snap their claws when irritated-- about the time it took him to setup a new installation, and someone --I can't locate the post-- asked about the pros and cons of downloading firefox directly from mozilla vis-a-vis installing a pet.
To the later, Playdaz responded that he didn't think it made much difference other than that if a pet (or SFS) wasn't used firefox wouldn't appear on the menu.
I can think of one other significant, 'though rare, drawback: on occasion some other application will "call" the default browser, and I can think of no way by which a "non-Puppy" version of firefox can be the default browser.
Edit: 2/19/13: Many (all?) current puppies include an application for choosing default applications. It uses drop-down menus for making selections in categories, including browser. However, by accident I discovered that you can type in your choice, So you can type in /root/my-applications/bin/firefox (the script to call firefox-external). Or if that doesn't work, try typing in /mnt/home/firefox/firefox if that's where your executable is located), But see also my post regarding dependencies: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 418#506418
That said, the advantages of using firefox from a Program Folder was discussed a couple of years ago by Playdaz. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=29562. More recently, DaveS created the FoxyFun Pet, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 121#481121 which would install the 3.6.5 version of firefox to /mnt/home and created a menu entry. On a different thread started by DaveS, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 3&start=45 I had volunteered to develop an "FoxyFun extra-distros" pet --i.e., one that would enable the use of the same FoxyFun files from several Puppys, but ran into a conceptual snag, put the project aside and got distracted. The aforementioned comments stimulated me to revisit and untangle the snag. [I had been unsuccessfully trying to employ a symlink which didn't work. A script did].

To get to the point, combining the works of Playdaz and DaveS, the attached pet creates a desktop file (and thus a menu entry) for any firefox, including FoxyFun. It does so by installing a script and an icon in my-applications/bin, and a desktop file in /usr/share/applications. That script presumes that firefox’s executable is located in the /mnt/home/firefox folder which would be created if you unpack the file downloaded from Mozilla.com in /mnt/home. If your firefox folder is located elsewhere, or called something else, just open the script in your favorite text editor and edit it to the correct location and name. You can also change the icon, but the new icon must be named firefox.png, otherwise you’ll have to edit the desktop file.

Unlike DaveS’ Foxyfun pet, which places the .mozilla folder outside the SaveFile, this leaves that folder untouched. When you install a firefox pet, load a firefox SFS for the first time, or download firefox from Mozilla and click its executable for the first time, a “virgin

[playdayz]

That said, the advantages of using firefox from a Program Folder was discussed a couple of years ago by Playdaz. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=29562.

Dude, You are a scholar! Except that no one uses the phrase program folder any more, that really just means, install them in /mnt/home direct from Firefox. Left to my own devices I would probably still be doing that, but in my present position I have to think about usability for the majority of Puppyians. For most people it is easier to click a pet--and much easier for those who haven't yet learned the ins and out of Puppy architecture. Your pet seems like a useful one. Is it ready for prime time--I can put it in PPM.

[Lobster]

about the time it took him to setup a new installation

It takes about an hour
BUT that includes adding software
googleearth
wbar
VLC
Openshot
Xara
accelerated drivers
etc

It includes personalising Firefox with Lastpass. add blocker plus
Changing wm and background etc
and perhaps setting up a Samba network just for good measure
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 255#506255

Quite a lot of tweaking, this is really helped with
the new setup icon which launches Pupcontrol

A running Puppy with Internet connection is now very easy
and takes 5 minutes

Lucid with Quickpet and Pupcontrol has made
it very difficult to run puplets without such innovations
I just find them too useful to use anything lesser . . .

[sszindian]

Question?

Why does Puppy need a 'Personal Storage File' that has to be constantly updated for more space?
Can't Puppy have an option to the system that uses the entire HD for storage if one desires and just draw the application into RAM that it needs from the HD then taken back out of RAM once finished with that application and use whatever HD space it needs automatically?
I never had a good explination on this and why that option isn't available!

>>>---Indian------>

[rcrsn51]

Can't Puppy have an option to the system that uses the entire HD for storage if one desires and just draw the application into RAM that it needs from the HD then taken back out of RAM once finished with that application and use whatever HD space it needs automatically?

Have you considered doing a full install?

[bigpup]

Question?

Why does Puppy need a 'Personal Storage File' that has to be constantly updated for more space?
Can't Puppy have an option to the system that uses the entire HD for storage if one desires and just draw the application into RAM that it needs from the HD then taken back out of RAM once finished with that application and use whatever HD space it needs automatically?
I never had a good explination on this and why that option isn't available!

>>>---Indian------>

If you do a frugal install to a flash drive, you do have that option for the save file to use the entire flash drive.
For frugal hard drive installs you have more variables to consider.
Is it duel installed with Windows on the same partition?
It would be a nice idea to have a save file that self adjusts its size.

[Lobster]

The muted sound symbol (despite sound playing) is back

1. It seems only to happen in JWM
2. It seems directly related to the red/yellow bar system [sorry forgot name]
I used that to bring the bar down when eventually it was muted.
Then had to run the sound wizard - even though sound returned the
graphic still has the muted symbol

If anyone can verify some of this maybe we can work out why it is happening.

For the record, the BSOD (Black Screen of Death) was something I experienced during previous testing of Lucid versions. However have not seen it since . . .

[smokey01]

Question?

Why does Puppy need a 'Personal Storage File' that has to be constantly updated for more space?
Can't Puppy have an option to the system that uses the entire HD for storage if one desires and just draw the application into RAM that it needs from the HD then taken back out of RAM once finished with that application and use whatever HD space it needs automatically?
I never had a good explination on this and why that option isn't available!

>>>---Indian------>

There are many ways to install puppy. Frugal is very portable and easy to maintain and the savefile is part of the reason for that.

Puppy can also be installed as a full install. This means all the files are extracted to the partition and a savefile is not required. A full install must be installed on a linux partition however. A frugal installation is more versatile and can be installed on FAT16, FAT32, NTFS and linux partitions.

When you use the Puppy Universal Installer to install puppy on a linux partition it will give you a choice of frugal or full. If it's not a linux partition you only get the frugal option.

You can also install puppy onto USB flash drives, USB HDD, and even flash cards such as SD photographic cards.

[Sage]

The muted sound symbol (despite sound playing) is back

I already said that!
But doing the usual setup worked for me.

[bigpup]

The muted sound symbol (despite sound playing) is back

1. It seems only to happen in JWM
2. It seems directly related to the red/yellow bar system [sorry forgot name]
I used that to bring the bar down when eventually it was muted.
Then had to run the sound wizard - even though sound returned the
graphic still has the muted symbol

If anyone can verify some of this maybe we can work out why it is happening.

I can verify I am having no problem with sound.

Have you installed some type of audio program that could be causing this?
Does it do it with a fresh clean (no save file) live CD?
What type install?
What is your audio specs?
If it is an upgrade install see if it happens with a very clean fresh install?
What I mean by very clean is no old Puppy files on the partition.

[rerwin]

Code: Select all

# grep '0x2562' /tmp/udevtrace.log 
add_0000:00:02.0_pci_0x8086_0x2562_pci:v00008086d00002562sv00001028sd00000149bc03sc00i00
remove_i2c-2_i2c_0x8086_0x2562_pci:v00008086d00002562sv00001028sd00000149bc03sc00i00
# 

I can't give you much to work with. Sadly, I know no way to make the problem come-and-go, despite looking. One poor hint - a reboot is more likely to fail than first boot - I wonder (without further reason) if it is a temperature effect, possibly a critical timing issue - just conjecture. For comparsion, Wary and 214X (i810 driver vs Intel with Luci) have never failed.

A few more black screens have happened for me today with luci-256, atypically rebooting often for testing; however, something is better.

Luci-256 is also better for me for restarting X as required after some installations. It hasn't failed yet. Losing some long downloads was bothersome.

ctrl-alt-backspace doesn't help, even with some blind xwin's; ctrl-alt-delete does reboot.

I appreciate your efforts and attention; however I don't feel that this is a puppy issue, but a kernel issue and you shouldn't beat yourselves up too much over it. If I can supply anything, let me know.

Thank you for all that info. First, your flavor of the graphic controller is different from that which the modeset-rule fix addresses, so it was not a factor for you. But you do confirm what I am seeing in testing my latest update to the modem-modprobe package!

I get random refusals to boot to the desktop or restart X, which occur more frequently on warm boots than on cold boots. I see much the same misbehavior as you do. So, avoiding "reboot" lessens the impact.

But in researching the issue, I found very disturbing news. There has been an ongoing problem with the intel i915 module over several kernel versions. Although the problem may have disappeared before 2.6.33. it apparently has resurfaced in that (Luci's) kernel. The signature of the problem is that bootup/restart freezes with the last message

[drm:i915_gen_idle] *ERROR* hardware wedged

This occurs seemingly at random, as no particular scenario has been described as triggering the hang.

Fixes have been tried on several later kernels, but I am not aware of actual success, yet. I would hope that any fix would be back-port-able to 2.6.33. The most promising recommendation I have seen is to "revert" the i915 module to version 2.9.1 (xf86-video-intel?). So, for now, I plan to always do a cold boot with Luci.
Richard

[mikeslr]

Hi Playdaz and All,

Regarding Firefox_External, Playdaz asked "Is it ready for prime time?"

Probably. I've tested it a couple of times without running into a snag. And it's really very simple: just an icon, a script and a desktop file, so almost nothing can go wrong absent (I think) a difference in BASH. [The latter caveat being my guess as to why desktop files written in 4.30 weren't recognized as such in 4.12].
But as you indicated, using firefox from /mnt/home is, itself, something best employed by users who already know their way around Puppy's file structure. And Firefox_External, at most, is just an aid to those.
I've mentioned it in the Additional Software thread, with appropriate warnings. I think that would be sufficient.
Glad you liked it, though. Thanks.

mikesLr

[rerwin]

For anyone interested in trying my "modem-modprobe" package with Luci and remastering it, I have updated the package to include the remaster script modified to omit the deleted obsolete files and directories, providing a "clean" result. This would be useful to build confidence in the package, by allowing testing for any unexpected behavior and comparison with an original Luci puppy. See some details here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 569#506569

Since that package is where I plan to do any further "fine tuning" for all puppies, I very much want to know of any suspicious differences from an original Luci release.

I would also like to dig into some of the issues people have encountered while upgrading pupsave files. I have no special knowledge about how that works, but am willing to see what I can improve. Any of you with issues about updating from 254 to either 255 or 256: please contact me by PM pointing me to your posting about it, or post a new message here. Thank you.
Richard

[playdayz]

Skype does not seem to work with my MS webcam. It finds the right /dev/video0 that works with guvcview, but in Options Video Test, I never get an image. I have tried with no extra graphics, Xorg_High, and ATI Catalyst. I don't use Skype so I have no one to call

[playdayz]

Bigpup,Thanks. There is a new Avidemux in PPM, 2.5.3. The sound works for me (sound in previous 2.5.2 did not).
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... ucid52.pet

[playdayz]

For what it's worth, I have been having good luck watching jazz videos in youtube (and otherwise). The Firefox Add-on Download Youtube Videos 3.3.5 has been good in saving those videos.

[playdayz]

The muted sound symbol (despite sound playing) is back Confused

Yes Lobster and Sage, Turning the volume control in the task bar all the way down will cause the Mute symbol. However, gnome-mplayer might still make noise, just less noise. The reason is, I think, that the Front device (or some other device) is still turned up--you can see that if you right-click the volume icon and choose Full Window. This is obviously not ideal, but..... It can happen in Openbox also.

Try this. Right-click the volume icon and choose Config Window. Then choose Tray. Change the drop down for Tray Slider to 35 PCM Playback Volume. Now mute is mute. But does that give anyone problems?

[mikeslr]

@ sszindian:
Part of the reason there's a personal storage file is historical. History is an organic process rather than a logical one. Unless compelled to do so, people don't reinvent the wheel. Innovations are far more likely to be variations from the known than structures created from some new conception of reality. This is a rule which applies to all human endeavors.
Puppy is based on Linux, and Linux was created to emulate Unix. So despite that Linux was designed to be used on desktops rather than on a network, and the Puppy OS was conceived as to be employed by a single user, rather than by many users, the basic structure of Unix where each user required a distinct user space and limited permission regarding manipulation of files outside of that user space was retained. Once the basic design for Puppy was established by Barry K, only necessity recognized by him would require a radical re-design. And that necessity is lacking.
As others have mentioned, Puppy can be set up as a Full Install. But one of the basic ideas behind Puppy was the ability to employ it from (almost) any media, including that shared by another Operating System, to wit: a Frugal Install. And another basic idea behind Puppy was that it be "user friendly," which I take to mean that someone with no idea of what was happening under the hood could install it and use it immediately.
That said, there are fairly easy techniques for running Puppy with almost no SaveFile beyond that required to install, when necessary or convenient, applications not included by the creator of the Puppy or derivatives. [I think on the sPup thread you'll find posts by someone who was remastering his Puppy to run from a CD without using any SaveFile. But that didn't appear easy]. Among those techniques are the use of SFSes, Portable Linux Apps --if you're not familiar with them, search for Posts by Stu90 and Lobster-- and (despite Playdaz objection to the term) what I referred to as Program Folders. (I think it a more accurate description, since if you install an application such as 01micko's Startmount, you can mount any partition at bootup and so, without any further human intervention, immediately initiate applications installed on other than /mnt/home).
Other than the log files they may automatically generate, I know of no application which requires that datafiles it creates be saved within Puppy's SaveFile. But there's a fairly easy technique for setting Puppy up so that they automatically won't. If you open your "Home Folder" --the one which opens when you click the "file" icon on the desktop, you're looking at what is commonly understood to be your "user space." One of the files you'll see there is named "my-documents". Leaving the Home Folder opened, open a second window by clicking on any of the drive icons on your desktop. Each opens to somewhere outside your SaveFile. (Unless you've employed Startmount, I suggest you open the partition housing your Puppy Files). Now drag and drop "my-documents" to the other window, choose "Move;" then drag and drop it back choosing Link (Relative). While you have booth windows opened, Right-Click the second, choose New>Directory and name it "my-downloads" Now drag it to "Home" and choose Link (Relative). Continue to create as many folders you can think of in the second window, creating symlinks to them in your Home folder. As far as I know, all Linux applications will immediately "see" and can access the folder as being in your User Space, albeit the actual folder is outside the SaveFile. The actual amount of SaveFile/User Space being used is less than a kilobyte per symlink.

Because they were not designed to understand Linux symlinks, some Windows programs running under wine may not be as easily managed.

Happy computing,

mikesLr

[rhadon]

Skype does not seem to work with my MS webcam. It finds the right /dev/video0 that works with guvcview, but in Options Video Test, I never get an image.

Maybe your cam works in skype and you're only not able to see your own picture.

This happened for me some luci versions ago everytime after using smplayer (with mplayer it was OK). Test option didn't work and during a call I couldn't see my own picture. But the one on the other side could see me and I could see him.

Restarting X solved the problem till next start of smplayer.

I don't think this is your problem, but anyhow helpful.

Rolf