Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!

[dogle]

.. and especially, welcome to the Kennels, ogodon.

Is there something like this but related to Puppy?

Yes there is!

http://www.cafepress.co.uk/puppylinux.302823859

http://www.lulu.com/content/5560578

Grant's book is designed for refugees (you can download for free if you have access to a good connection - it's heavyMB .pdf).

Don't miss Barry's excellent explanations, access to which is rather well hidden on the Puppy's jumping-off page at present - you need to follow the links for developer site/developer section to find them and I fear that lots of newcomers don't get that far.

http://www.puppylinux.com/development/index.html

Edit: Oops, must also draw attention to darrelljon's

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Puppy_Linux

and of course the great new Puppy wiki -

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage

[ogodon]

Thanks a million. Perhaps all I should have done was ask earlier. I'll read the stuff, and hopefully improve.

Thanks again.

[Nikomachos]

Most things are surprisingly user friendly, but firefox didn't download and install automatically. I'm figuring how to do that now from the forums (there's a thread and a puppy), but of course I'd prefer for it to just download and run automatically.

Open Office would be nice too, though I realise that's pushing the size of puppy. I see where Office is added on the main site, and I'm going to work on getting that. I have a space issue atm, but that'll be resolved with the next install.

Wireless network connection wouldn't work until I both dropped encryption and made the router broadcast. Puppy did at least see the hidden router. My updating the drivers might resolve this.

Antivirus and something like CCleaner might come in handy. I like that there's a firewall. AVG has a Linux antivirus - dunno if that'd work well.

Thanks for raising Puppy!

[tobydog]

Thanks to an earlier poster in this thread, who has solved the problem of wireless not working. The trick is to enter the password in hex, rather than ascii.

For my 2Wire router, the following tool successfully converted my 13-character ascii WEP password to hex: http://www.einhorn-net.de/jstools/wepkey.html

Puppy (430 small) is the first Linux distro I've found that actually works on my old Gateway Solo 9500 laptop (128MB RAM). Congratulations and many thanks, to the Puppy team!

[hepcatfive]

I'm A+ certified but still consider myself a Linux newbie. To make a long story short, I needed a distro that would work on my girlfriend's old laptop and would be user friendly enough for her.

A year ago (September 2008,) I tried a few different distros (Mint, PC-OS, PCLinuxOS, Damn Small Linux, Knoppix, etc.) Most either didn't work (Mint, PC-OS,) or were too slow (Knoppix, PCLinuxOS,) or worked fine but were not particularly girlfriend friendly (DSL).

Puppy was the answer (hard drive install). I had some trouble getting the wireless PCMCIA card working but other than that it was a breeze.

More recently, I upgraded her from Puppy 4.1. to Puppy 4.3 (Specifically Puppies 4.3.1.1 Main X Server - way to go ttuuxxx thank you so much!)

http://puppylinux.org/news/releases/430 ... x-remaster

Again I had some trouble with the wireless adapter but this new version is truly better than ever! It still amazes me to see how fast Puppy boots up.

4.3 it turns out, is much more stable than its 4.1 predecessor: frequent reboots are a thing of the past. The laptop touchpad also works much better than before. As far as the remaster goes, my girlfriend really appreciates having the latest Firefox which handles Flash sites with no trouble right out of the box.

After one year I think it is safe to declare Puppy Linux girlfriend approved! She has had no trouble figuring out nearly all of the included software and even started her own Puppy powered blog back in April 2009:

http://www.thewordwire.com/

Many thanks to all the Puppy developers: you've done a truly remarkable job and are to be congratulated!

All the best!

PS: Linux Babes are HOT!!!

[puppyite]

PS: Linux Babes are HOT!!!

That's funny. I needed a laugh, thanks. Women with brains usually are hot.

[puppyite]

3) As a total newbie, I never found a good place to start learning from.

Hi Ogodon,
My favorite book about Linux is: Linux in Easy Steps, fourth edition by Mike McGrath. It's geared towards Ubuntu but I find it's generic enough to be a perfect starter book. It's $15. new, only 192 pages in length and utilizes language that average computer users can understand, I think you'd like it.

[hepcatfive]

Is there a Puppy just for newbies loaded with extra help files, virtual tours of installed software, manual PDFs, video tutorials, etc.?

BTW:
Thanks puppyite for the resource suggestions, (McGrath's book looks like a winner.)

Ogodon has got some good points:

I just hope people will realize how really simple stupid stuff can be a huge problem for a beginner, and how hard it can be to find the help for that.

Yeah, we do. I remember when it took me a second, or two, (or ten,) to figure out that I needed to mount the cdrom drive before I could view the contents of the cd I had just inserted.

There's a lot of little "Linux specific" things that have the potential to really trip up migrating Window$ users. I wonder if there's a good list somewhere? Strict sensitivity to upper and lower case letters with file and folder (excuse me, "directory") names is another one...

The do-it-yourself world of Linux can be daunting and frustrating but also very exciting once you finally do figure stuff out. It's ultimately very rewarding once you figure out ways to give back to the community. It's obvious that a lot of work had gone into make Puppy one of the least painful Linux experiences out there, and Linux in general has come a LONG way over the years.

1) The big amount of time dedicated to search for answers. Murga Linux is full of old threads, then the threads that probably contain the answers are full of things I don't quite understand. Most notably however are the endless comments of small particular details.

The forums can be a little arcane at times for sure. There's some pretty decent puppy videos for those not used to trudging through forums.

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Videos

2) Everything is online.

That's another good point. That's a real problem for some people. This is why I suggest a custom Puppy remaster just for Newbies. I think some videos / virtual tours that launch on the first boot might be helpful. There should also be a desktop icon for returning to it as needed.

I have an old Linspire Live CD that had a very thorough flash presentation for beginners. It was actually a little too thorough, you couldn't really get through all of it in one sitting without getting bored stiff. It would be nice if there was just a quick overview with the opportunity to drill down for more info when needed. If these tutorials could be integrated with the help files that would be even better. I suggest a custom remaster because I'm not sure that all this should be incorporated into the main distribution: more advanced users won't need it, and Puppy of course likes to stay lean.

Perhaps all I should have done was ask earlier.

It does take a bit of courage to post. No one really likes being a newbie, and no one wants to embarrass themselves. I risk revealing abundant ignorance when I post. I'm ok with that because I can see that this community is very accepting of all skill levels. In my post above I thanked the developers. I need to also thank all of you forum moderators / contributors. In looking through the forum I see plenty of newbie questions. The replies are always very polite and respectful. I think the positive, helpful spirit of the Puppy community has contributed tremendously to the success and popularity of this distribution.

Good job all!

Keep it up!

[Aitch]

Is there a Puppy just for newbies loaded with extra help files, virtual tours of installed software, manual PDFs, video tutorials, etc.?

Not as far as I know......but there is a suggestions section, or just post it as a suggestion in the beginners threads, a lot of stuff gets read & acted on, there

It'd certainly gain some support

How about this, to whet your appetite?

http://klu9.50webs.com/puppystuff.html

Aitch

[out_fisherman]

Just my $.02 -

Having gone thru and discarded several other small distros of Linux
(Xubuntu, DSL, etc.) I settled on Puppy because of ease of
installation and the ability to run on my aged (2000) Toshiba laptop.

I have a newer laptop dual-booted with Vista and Ubuntu - I
haven't used the Vista side for about a month now. I like the
speed and reliability of the Linux platform. Why go back ?

I am not unfamiliar with programming, having done so since DOS,
then BASIC, then a little Fortran, C+, etc. BUT - I find myself asking
the WHY NOT LINUX question at times (I love it). From an ex-Windows
user since 3.1, things which SHOULD be simple are made more
complex by those of us brainwashed by the Windoze systems of
the past decades.

From my perspective, and my experience with Puppy, here goes:

1. Awesome distro (4.3). Installed to my old laptop with no prob.
Found and ran all my devices great. After a brief tryout running
in RAM, I decided this was the one for me. Painless HDD install.

2. Auto-mounting of drives was a big plus here, not to mention
stupidly-easy internet setup. Kudos for sure - this will be of
major attraction to ex-windows users.

Now for the WHY NOT LINUX side -

I assume that 99.7% of home computer users just use them for
internet and E-mail. As such, I also assume that many of them
used Firefox for Windoze. Those users would then expect that
Firefox would be pretty much the same in Linux (Puppy).
And it is, if you have good eyesight, unlike me. However,
once you install Firefox and open it, you can hardly see the text
in the menu bars, address bar, etc. This one item is probably
the first and most noteworthy item a new user will notice -
if they are not happy with the internet display, they will shy away.
Given the popularity of both Puppy and Firefox, it would be a
great enticement to new users if someone could develop a package
whereas "IF you have Puppy and IF you have Firefox, click this LINK",
which will set up the fonts so someone with worse than 20-10
vision can read the menus, etc.

I for one have spent a great deal of time trying to fix the font size on
my Puppy/Firefox combination just so I could read the menu bar, etc.
Many new users would not be so willing....BUT -
This is the ONE and only problem I have had with Puppy....

As for documentation - the Puppy CD (ISO) is only 107MB or so -
lots of room for docs, which would only need to be loaded if the
user chose 'full' install.

Bottom line -Puppy is GREAT! I love it. Once I learn how to set the
fonts in Firefox I will be done. THen will come the experimentation,
and maybe I can get my old programming brain re-engaged - I can't
possibly hurt my old laptop - reinstall takes very little time !

[puppyite]

I assume that 99.7% of home computer users just use them for internet and E-mail.

IMO that’s a shaky assumption but we’ll let it ride.

As such, I also assume that many of them used Firefox for Windoze.

IMO that’s a very shaky assumption.

Those users would then expect that Firefox would be pretty much the same in Linux (Puppy). And it is, if you have good eyesight, unlike me.

Those assumptions are beginning to pile up now aren’t they? RE: Firefox working as it did in Windows.

However, once you install Firefox and open it, you can hardly see the text in the menu bars, address bar, etc. This one item is probably the first and most noteworthy item a new user will notice - if they are not happy with the internet display, they will shy away.
Given the popularity of both Puppy and Firefox, it would be a great enticement to new users if someone could develop a package whereas "IF you have Puppy and IF you have Firefox, click this LINK", which will set up the fonts so someone with worse than 20-10 vision can read the menus, etc.

I for one have spent a great deal of time trying to fix the font size on my Puppy/Firefox combination just so I could read the menu bar, etc. Many new users would not be so willing....BUT - This is the ONE and only problem I have had with Puppy....

IIRC there is a Firefox SFS file for a frugal install. IIRC there is a Puppy derivative that comes with Firefox preinstalled. Maybe Firepup (guess)?

You didn’t say why you don’t use SeaMonkey. I find it acceptable.

Disclaimer: I have never used Firefox so take anything I say about it with that proviso.

I assume (risky) you tried this: Go to: Menu > Desktop > Set global font size. Another thought, might not be ideal but you could lower the screen resolution.

PS: I was being facetious about the assumptions so please don’t be offended

PS: You don’t need to put hard returns at the end of every line in your post. The forum software will wrap it for you. It automatically trims off empty lines from the bottom too. Rather than a bunch of spaces you could use a list in the post composition screen (just thoughts).

[sharterp6]

just wanted too say the easiest have tried.love the java easy install this has been a problem for me on all the linux i have tried.The desk top great too .not commited too convert all the way because certain programs i use alot havent seen here yet(paint shop pro jasc animation and so forth ).but i am on a pentium 2 computer works great on the net for surfing,but not strong enough for the java sites i use all the time,online gaming .when i get my lap top back ill try it on there.great work so far.

[oigle]

If you go to ibiblio there are lots of PETs but no descriptions of what they do.
is there a dictionary of puppy words?

PPM seems to fail me
I can access the net
go to PPM select a PET say- fbpanel- then more info
Wikipedia calls fbpanel an orphan so PPM connected
click install try any url
PPM fails to connect and generates an error report
Why does one part of the PPM connect but the other part wont
I connect thru Internet by network or wireless LAN
In DOC The ADSL/Broardband
This section was written ages ago and needs updating (i agree)
Oh well

[mathom]

I am new to Linux and new to Puppy. I have wanted to try Linux for a while, but never had a system I could mess with. Now I have an old system that I can kill and not care, but I'd like to make it work.

It is an old laptop, pentium I model, with 64MB of RAM. I went looking for small Linux distos and chose Puppy over DamnSmallLinux because Puppy looks nicer. I loved the way my laptop booted quickly. The installation was a bit overwhelming, but not too scarry. Then I got into the software.

The assortment of software is very nice, very usefull, and for freeware, very impressive. I've found programs to do almost all the things I wanted---or so I thought---and somethings I didn't think I would need. I loved it.

Now I am frustrated because the things I really want to do---program, compile, and run in Java; write, compile, and view LaTeX documents; get rid of all the software I don't use so that I have a clean, stripped down system---I can't seem to do. I have been through the Forums and done a Google search to find the information that I want, but to no avail.

LaTeX still does not compile. I downloaded the LaTeX .sfs file (http://puppylover.netsons.org/dokupuppy/programs:latex) but I couldn't get it to load as it kept telling me that my .sfs version was too old. I can't figure out how to install it.

Java does not compile. I'm not even sure how to load it. I got the java jre.bin and jdk.bin from Sun thinking that would be easiest, but I don't know where to put them and clicking on them doesn't seem to work.

I have no idea how to delete programs like Seamonkey. I like the Puppy HTML viewer and I'm not sure why I need SeaMonkey. I don't have an internet connection and only need an HTML viewer to write code. I'd also like to change some of the desktop icons to point to different applications, but I haven't figured that one out.

I can understand why you might want online documentation as everyone has a connection to the internet, but as you can see this assumption is false. I can't access the internet with this laptop and trolling through the website to find what I want is not getting me anywhere quickly.

You can see why I am frustrated. I love the speed and tiny nature. Loading in 64MB of RAM is no mean feat, but my frustrations are mounting causing me to look for larger alternatives.

[dogle]

Thanks, folks, and welcome!

oigle - manuals - pending in-progress updating of the index in this section, see
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... &start=171

mathom et al - yes, in particular the issue of offline (built-in) documentation needs to be readdressed - the high standard of this in early versions of Puppy has IMHO been slipping somewhat, and that's a shame.

[Snail]

One of the worst problems is the help available. Not the accuracy, or completeness so much, more the utter disorganization. Just for instance, on page 1 of this thread, Ecomoney posted a link to "the wiki". Following that link takes you to a Wiki all right, with a great big notice to go to another, newer wiki. The new one is so incomplete that you'd think that it's brand new. but alas, a lot of the material is old. Why the duplication of wikis?

Puppy changes very quickly and must of the information seems to be struggling to catch up with the version before last. It is also a pain to wade through pages of data and then find it refers to 2 or even 1 series Puppy and you are on 4.3.

Wiki to me implies custom-written articles. A collection of links to these forums is not a proper wiki page. Its easier to go direct to the forum.

Since so much seems to require the use of the Command line, decent Bash help would be a godsend for a Linux newbie. Puppy is not the only distro to cut local documentation to save space. However the link to Wikipedia is a horrible choice. The Buzybox online manual would be a lot better, but that is still pretty terse compared with the full tldp docs. Since Buzybox is not true bash maybe the Buzybox manual may have to do.

The man page link covers hardly any commands I have tried. It has attracted the derision of at least one reviewer.

[Aitch]

snail

You don't say which man page you tried

bash man

http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html

different version

http://linux.die.net/man/1/bash

bash A-Z

http://ss64.com/bash/

& try this; busybox man page

http://man-wiki.net/index.php/1:busybox

busybox FAQ

http://www.busybox.net/FAQ.html

HTH, documentation review is well known & underway, AFAIK

Aitch

[Snail]

OOPs it's not as bad as I thought. If I type "man command " in a 430 rxvt console, I get taken to die.net, which seems to work fine, except that it is, I suspect about GNU bash, rather than Busybox ash.

What confused me, and the reviewer I think, is that the Help command in rxvt is very lacking and when you type "help grep", for instance, you get advised to type info grep or man -k grep. The latter searches die.net for -k and results in the ridiculous "HMMM--" message. The former results in something like "info command not found". Very misleading message for a tyro.

One of my Puppy distros, possibly Pupeee 4.2.1 takes you to a Wikipedia page about the command, which is useless, no real detail at all

[the dammed one]

The topic i see is feedback. I realize that puppy has some of these qualifications. I have came back again and again to puppy. because of its charm and size.

I am looking to connect to a network behind a router. i am looking to have full file access to all files and devices on my network. 2000, xp, vista, umbutu, debian, mac, etc.

I dont want to deal with authorizations. Im not worried about root access. i am the only one that beats on the keyboard. if i crash it. i got a cd.

I am not interested in bloat ware. like microvirus windoze. An operating system should not be 40 gig on a hard drive. it should be the layer to put all devices on the computer in a addressable form. My preference is to put a card in the machine and have the os be a de-facto extension of the bios. For a thought we got away from the 8 bit computers that had a standard io set and software we wanted to use was optional, and now we have a glossy bloated virus ridden unsecured computer that you could hook to a hot water heater as the heating element. where your privacy is violated by the operating system that logs what you do, and for all practical purposes the same classes of devices and software and almost the same shortcuts, just faster. ever boot a old dos sys disk on a quad core computer speed!!! sorry im ranting.

I am interested in installing software to the system and in some cases removing this software. easily and clearly simply. yes i know how to get software off of the windows system. i can even get the software specific registry entry's and reinstall it elsewhere. but im going to need some serious hand holding to make the jump to Linux and or puppy with the same skill level. I don't see the hand holding. understand im not criticizing im observing. The level of skill assumed is higher than im at. And im handicapped as i have used windows and have that mindset.

to be practical shared networking is real fun, shared printer is even more fun. I love waisting a box of paper and three weeks looking for a driver for the printer. software like amule or suns virtual box is impossible for me to install and make working. I have installed puppy with the intention of utilizing this computer on my network as separately and jointly those functions. I have been able to use umbutu as a p2p server and printer server. I would prefer not to have the software that comes with umbutu but i can play with it long enough to make it work.

I would like to see a user manual like the old dos manuals. dare i make the comparison. But the manual needs to define the terminal commands and what they do. further maybe identify conventions such as where the desktop , trashcan, device drivers, start menu, my documents, are under the directory tree, and where the actual files are for xxx program. I need to find the newbies general overview with enough dummied down explanations to make me understand how it works.

The issue i have is conflicting sources and no real good source to begin with.

puppy is different as it is root only access so most documentation is mute.

[imnotrich]

I found the fonts in both sea monkey and firefox to be horrible.

My vision is pretty good for an old toad my age, but anyway I could deal with the fonts if not for the other issues.

No Java.
Flash - finally available in version 4.3.1, but the resolution is poor and choppy. Still needs work.
WPA2 support - still waiting
Streamtuner/XMMS - where?
Supertux- where?
Chess software - where?
Open office - a huge hassle but finally, in version 4 the .sfs model is working for me. I could not get it to work in previous versions.

I'm not quite a noob, but apparently the older puppy gets the more it leans towards the debian model (nothing works without some tinkering) rather than the "just works" goal. And that's frustrating.
Noobs and regular people like me need an easy button. I want Puppy to be my primary operating system. But at the rate things are going, that will never happen. Couple more versions and people will be comparing puppy with vista's lack of functionality.