Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!

Booting, installing, newbie
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dogle
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Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!

#1 Post by dogle »

Newbies - Puppy is a brilliant distro for all sorts of people - but not yet for everyone (yet!). Some - hopefully just a few - don't get along with it. To make Puppy even better, we need to know WHY. If Puppy is not the answer to all your prayers, and especially if you are thinking of moving elsewhere, please pause and tell us what you didn't like, or what you would like to see get better, in this thread (but please discuss individual technical problems in another thread). Your views are very important - YOUR comments can help to make good things happen.

Regulars - Let's keep this thread just for newcomers, and let's offer them our thanks and discuss their contributions with them in a parallel one - http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=47021
Last edited by dogle on Thu 08 Mar 2012, 20:47, edited 3 times in total.

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Burn_IT
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#2 Post by Burn_IT »

? Good idea, but....
Is it possible to make a thread/area whereby posts can be made without the need to sign up.
That way casual visitors may be more willing to comment???
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

frefel
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Joined: Thu 26 Feb 2009, 22:32
Location: Eugene, Ore., US

#3 Post by frefel »

Puppy is fantastic and I'm only starting to know it.

I would like to see a stable version of Firefox, preferable one of the more recent ones for security reasons, instead of Seamonkey. FF has more useful add-on options, including Xmarks, which I find invaluable. I realize I can add FF to Puppy but I have found it prone to crashing with certain video formats and with my YahooMail.

popeye
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Location: Vancouver

#4 Post by popeye »

Puppy is an impressive distro. Loading into Ram makes Puppy an exciting distro to use and unlike the larger mainstream distros does not try to be all things to all users. Excess packages are eliminated (packages that most will never use) while still providing the ability to install all of the basics and some extras as well. The upcoming Woof project is cutting edge and to my mind promises to be one of the most innovative projects I heard about in a long time. I feel like a kid in a candy store not knowing which way to turn my head (and thats exciting).

Its for theses reasons that I keep coming back to Puppy. I say keep coming back because I have tried Puppy a number of times in the past only to have left because of my lack of computer skills. Like many newbies my skills in getting things to work is reduce to copying code that is presented on forum pages. For what ever reason, when this code doesn't work I'm forced to return to a main stream distro (Linux of course) in order to get my work done.

Trying to get things to work is a great learning tool however a number of the pages in the " Index of resources for Beginners Help forum" were posted quite awhile ago and refer to much earlier versions of Puppy. While this information is still very valuable the solutions they present are not applicable to the later versions. It would be very helpful and save some newbie frustration if this was reorganized in some way to reflect this. To a newbie current documentation is a life saver.

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ecomoney
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#5 Post by ecomoney »

Well tested firefox package :D

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40497

Its difficult to find though, Im hoping to have it included in the official repositories...but sometimes getting through to the developers can be hard work....feel free to join the campaign :wink:

@Burn_IT.....first thats got to be the gutsiest signature Ive ever seen on a linux forum :shock: :lol:

Nontheless, someone with this background would be ideally suited to helping puppy achieve its mission..."Be friendly to linux newbies", and your contributions extremely worthwhile in the development sections.

We now have a section specifically for making suggestions for the next puppy version/and requesting bugs to be fixed :D

Next Puppy Development

The current version of puppy linux being developed (at the time of writing this post) is Puppy 5 "woof" series

The start of ANY successful computer program, open or closed source, is to include the people that will use the program in its design and construction.

People without mainstream programming/tech skills can also help enormously by contributing to Puppy Linux's documentation (popeye). Anyone is free to add to our "wiki" (like a wikipedia just for puppy linux) which can be found here.

http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki

So, youve got an operating system that doesnt catch viruses, doesnt inexplicably slow down, that you can customize to your exact requirements, and keeps your computer usable for three times as long as a Microsoft one....and we give you it for free...

All we ask is you do something for free in return....that way we can all be free....

Do you agree BURN_IT? :wink:
Puppy Linux's [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=296352#296352]Mission[/url]

Sorry, my server is down atm!

popeye
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Joined: Mon 04 May 2009, 01:51
Location: Vancouver

#6 Post by popeye »

Yes ecomoney I agree. Many hands do make light work and even if my computer skills are lacking doesn't mean that I can't contribute in other ways. It's easy to sit back and let others do all the work. To make something better, get involved and share the load.

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Burn_IT
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#7 Post by Burn_IT »

@Burn_IT.....first thats got to be the gutsiest signature Ive ever seen on a linux forum
It is a doublé entendre, not meant to be serious.

I am certainly willing to help and make suggestions, but I cannot commit myself to anything specific as I often get called away for weeks at a time.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

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ecomoney
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#8 Post by ecomoney »

Please do then! And put a ":wink:" in your sig! I thought we were being invaded for a moment :shock: :D All the best
Puppy Linux's [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=296352#296352]Mission[/url]

Sorry, my server is down atm!

dogle
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Joined: Thu 11 Oct 2007, 12:41

#9 Post by dogle »

It would also be very interesting to hear from our more-experienced newcomers if they feel that any other distros - for instance, Ubuntu - have offered them any advantage over Puppy in terms of newbie-friendliness.

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Flash
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#10 Post by Flash »

Burn_IT wrote:... Is it possible to make a thread/area whereby posts can be made without the need to sign up.
That way casual visitors may be more willing to comment???
This forum was originally set up so unregistered people could post as guests. It had to be changed to members only because of spam and other such useless off-topic junk. :evil:

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Pete22
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Experienced Newbie?

#11 Post by Pete22 »

I have been trying puppy for about two weeks.
I am not a geek, but a willing computer user,
who is not afraid to push buttons.

I have tried several of the distros.

I don't know the Linux lingo, but can I help?

Pete22

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Pete22
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You asked for it ;-)

#12 Post by Pete22 »

I was thrilled that Puppy was easy to load and start running from a CD. I was surprised at how friendly the start up was. From there it was just a few clicks and I was running the Internet. I was wowed by that.

But I soon realized that puppy was not completely installed yet. Installing to a USB was easy, but getting the files in their proper place was next to impossible for me to understand. I am sorry to say that the the paragraph in the first timer file about not needing to the understand Linux's file system because Puppy will help you know the place to save stuff is **not true** for the non geek. I am still struggling to save files. The save file and the browser files, and my wordprocessor files, all the rest of the files that I want to keep after I turned my computer off.

I am sure it is a deal breaker for many folks who can't figure out how to properly save the files they want to keep..

I was even more surprised when the Seamonkey update came out. Several kind souls offered suggestions to help me get it installed, but none of instructions worked.

This is another major deal breaker when updates are impossible for the average user to install.

Now for the hard stuff:
I feel like *some* Puppy geeks think that once the wallpaper hits the screen, their duty to the non geek is over.

You don't want any potential users to feel that way.

My wish for Puppy is:
Puppy would complete the installation of itself and the default programs; including the placement of the user files where they will be saved when the computer turns off.

I suggest that this new installation system include more than one level like the firewall installation does now.

1- Magic install – Program checks hardware and software and installs what is most likely to work.
2- Basic install - would be done with interactive software.
3- Custom install – command line only

Then when the installation is done, the software could delete itself so it doesn't take up valuable space. :wink:

The same idea should be used with handling software updates. Since I don't understand these things well, perhaps it is only reasonable to ask that Puppy automate the updates for the default programs.

Yes, it would take time away from working on new tweaks to do this. But in the end it would widen your user base, which would bring in more users with knowledge and resources to help with puppy development.

Maybe what I suggest is impossible. But impossible only means someone hasn't thought of a way to do it, yet!

I can tell there are some great minds out there. Please take these ideas for a walk around the park, stop and visit some firehyrants and trees. Go visit some of puppy's friends. Bring it home and let it have a nap in your chair. See if you can make this idea come to life.

Taking care of these issues is one of the major hurdles that is holding Puppy Linux back. I would love Puppy to jump that hurdle.

Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve!

Pete22

P.S. I think about those star trecky commicator looking things we call cell phones of today vs the old type dial phone of its day..... Ooops! My age is showing.... You youngsters don't even know what a tribble is. :wink:

Hey, about about naming this new installation program a Tribble. It would be perfect pet because: A tribble is a small, soft, and gentle animal, and produces a soothing purring sound. These traits are said to endear them to most...races which encounter them, ...... That matches what we want users to feel about puppy!.

With the notable exception of Klingons, who consider tribbles to be "mortal enemies" of the Klingon Empire. Great analogy with Bill Gates and company.

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ecomoney
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#13 Post by ecomoney »

Puppy Linux's [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=296352#296352]Mission[/url]

Sorry, my server is down atm!

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Pete22
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Wow!!! Cool!!!!

#14 Post by Pete22 »

Thank you, Thank you.

I am doing virtual somersaults. [I'm too old for the real kind] :wink:

You may not get many answers here, simply because beginners don't want to appear stupid.

I however, have already learned a powerful lesson. When you're at the bottom, the only place to go is......
UP!

Today I went looking to see what another Linux flavor thought was important for their beginners to know. If you actually go to this site, there are links to lots more information about the suggestions that they voted on.

Some of these Puppy has already! They need to be more accessable to a beginner. And there needs to be a way that they can be downloaded to a beginner's own computer.

Why a download you might ask?

Because sometimes when you are confused, trying to think clear enough to look online for an answer is not possible. And did you know, it is really hard to ask, write, or even Google an intelligent question when you don't even a basic knowledge of Linux's or even Puppy's vocabulary?

Please make available at all the places where official copies of puppy is downloaded, an "official beginner's file" that beginners can download, and refer to as they get started.

Why not make a Pet package with beginners info. The current Puppy start page says there is lots of help under the help button. To a geek maybe, but I was very disappointed at what was Not There.

I've looked at some of the Puppy wink files. I used wink before I retired, and really like the program. These files are very nice. However, they need updating and some need a few extra steps for the non geek.

I suggest that all people creating tutorials for "the official beginner's file" for puppy, use the Official generic puppy. That way, the examples will look actually like what the beginner's sees on his own screen.

I would ask the authors of the pups can do the same with their own versions. Only use the generic version of their own pup for their beginner's visual instructions.

Later on you can have a whole section on Puppy Bling. How to change the generic puppy, or use a pup, or even multiple pups.

Cheers.

Pete22
A true underdog

I copied it all because I don't know enough, to know how much if this will be useful.

===============================================
Taken from http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/8074/


Written by MK the 4 May 08 at 20:51. Category: Accessibility. Related project: Nothing/Others. Status: New

Rationale

"Even though things are simple, Windows users get lost. These are some points the tutorial could cover...

How to configure internet connection (Typing “sudo pppoeconf

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Pete22
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What others have for newbies

#15 Post by Pete22 »

The only thing wrong with this, it's out of date, wayyyyy out of date. It was written 5 years ago, it was a great idea, that they let slide. If they're like puppy with a new version every six weeks..... or even half as good, every 12 weeks or even 1 new version - a year ..... Letting the training material slide like that, is not acceptable.

If we want beginners to continue to keep coming and using Puppy, we have to be as committed to keeping the instuctions up to date as we are to actually adding new functions to Puppy in the first place.

At the bottom of the orginial page is a file in openoffice that someone could download and modify. There is some general linux stuff that we have permission to use, so we don't have to reinvent the will. I wish I could download that version but I can't. In Puppy, I can't figure out where stuff downloads, and even if I find it, when I try to unzip, the files never end up where I can find or use them even with the pfind tool. :?:



===============================================
http://www.pjls16812.pwp.blueyonder.co. ... index.html

Knowing Knoppix

The first guide to Knoppix for the complete beginner

Knoppix is an astoundingly clever product. It runs Linux completely from CD. There is no need to install. It bypasses all the software already installed on your PC or laptop. It automatically detects the hardware in your computer, such as video card, sound card, networking, the lot (subject to suitable hardware). When you've finished using Knoppix, simply restart. Your computer will return to your regular system, and it will behave as if nothing has happened. Knoppix is Free Software and open source under the terms of the GNU General Public Licence (GPL).

Knowing Knoppix is a beginner-friendly book designed to help with these situations:

-You can't start Windows! Disaster? Possibly not. It is often possible to rescue files from crashed Windows computers, even when Windows cannot be started. This guide takes you step by step through the process.
You are curious about Linux, and you want to discover what all the fuss is about.

- You want a useful guide to help you get started.

-This is not a "dummies" book. Instead, it is for smart people who want - or need - to run Knoppix for the very first time.

Reviews
Some of the comments we have received (slightly edited):

"Amazingly useful, well written and concise" -- Sam Posten, Adjunct Professor, Monmouth University, New Jersey, USA

"Easy and educational" -- Mark Repp, Technology Trainer, Port Huron Area School District, USA

"Rocks. For the beginner, well written... flows" -- Knoppix Forums

"Hats off... an excellent book" -- Knoppix Forums

"Top Pick... a great introduction" -- Tech Support Alert

What's new
8 June 05: Added what to do if a printer is not listed in the Add Printer Wizard, or if it fails to respond to a test page.

8 May 05: Important corrections regarding
1) USB drive compatibility and
2) USB 2.0 support.

Requirements
To run Knoppix in full and follow the instructions in Knowing Knoppix, you need:
Intel Pentium compatible PC (350 Mhz or faster is the practical minimum).
At least 128 Mb RAM.
Bootable CD-ROM drive, or any CD-ROM drive plus 1.44 Mb floppy drive.
SVGA compatible graphics card.
Serial, PS/2 or USB mouse.

Download
Just as Knoppix is free, so is Knowing Knoppix. It is released under the GNU Free Documentation Licence. You are welcome to copy and redistribute it (subject to certain conditions). You will probably want to download the PDF version. The source archive contains the original documents in OpenOffice.org version 1.1.1 (SXW) format.
Main content (3.8 Mb PDF)
Front cover (91 Kb PDF)
Back cover (271 Kb PDF)
Source (7.2 Mb tar/gzip archive)

Knowing Knoppix is designed for off-line reading, preferably printed. It is meant to be read as a companion to your PC or laptop, not as part of it. That is why it is offered in PDF format. Please note that the version of Knoppix covered is 3.3, which is a bit dated now. Version 3.3 was the current version when we started writing the book.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright: Phil Jones Computers, May 2005.
Email: philjones1 [at] blueyonder.co.uk. Replace [at] with @ to complete the email address.

[/b]

Kainnech
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Joined: Sun 24 May 2009, 08:59

Puppy User accounts

#16 Post by Kainnech »

HI, I'm totally new to Linux. I have tried out a few distros on CD before choosing Puppy (puplet Macpup 4.1.2). I really like it because it is so small and still has everything I need - almost.
It is lacking one thing that has me thinking about moving to another distro. I have done a full install on my family laptop and totally removed Windows XP (feels really good!). I want my wife and kids to be able to log in to their own separate account so they can have their own email, browser bookmarks, desktop wallpaper etc.
I have read about creating a copy of the pup_save file but there doesn't seem to be one in the full install?

How can I setup separate logins?

Bruce B

Re: Puppy User accounts

#17 Post by Bruce B »

Kainnech wrote: How can I setup separate logins?
Probably the most practical approach with Full Installs is
multiple partitions and installations, with GRUB menu items
for the each user. That way they have their own installation
to mess around with and not disturb others setup.

In other words, each user can customize and mess things up
as they please.

thebeaky
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat 09 May 2009, 09:29

a few more thoughts

#18 Post by thebeaky »

Hi

I have been using puppy 4.2 for about a month now, I really like the feel and the speed. I am not a complete linux newbie, but I feel I don't understand all that much. I can and am willing to learn.
There are however a few things that made it difficult to make the jump.


The first and possibly the biggest is the wireless wizard.

I could not connect to a wep router. after a long times research and help from the forum, I discovered it was because I was entering a string network key, instead of using hex, which was required. It would be worth mentioning on the screen at least, but even better to accept string and convert to hex. (its not hard I know that I wrote a program in prolog to do it in just about 5mins). ( I dont know how to add code and I suspect prolog code is rather useless in a system that doesn't come with prolog).

the second tarballs.

I keep finding downloads as tarballs .tar.gz which I want, I cant work out how to open them,

like pete22 mentioned manuals are out of date, and I followed manual instructions, and buttons I was supposed to use were not there.
I cannot even open them, let alone install them. That would be good to have defaulted to the system.

the third webcam.

I understand that as manufacturers dont seem to care about linux they don't publicize their driver documentation. which makes it hard for linux people to keep up. But when a new driver is out, it would be nice for it to be easy to add. I have 2 webcams, for which I am told to move to jaunty puppy for, so I tried downloaded the iso's and they begin boot, but stop before accesing any drives.
there must be a way of getting the up to date drivers installed onto an older puppy.

I have tested everything I feel I need before I drop windows, I feel I have almost reached that point. it remains just the webcam.

The fifth
full install: it works well off the disk, but I feel it would be so much faster if I could get it to work off my hard drive.
I have no partition ability on my computer, so I cannot make a swp partition, I also cannot put puppy in its own. but I was under the impression this should still be ok for frugal if I put puppy in the windoze part, and then got grub to work ( I had 7m to part, so I put grub in there). but although the installer says all is well, I have copied the lines it told me to the grub file, and it fails to boot.

I wrote a list of requirements, and have been working through them to see if I can complete the jump.




office Y
download manager Y
skype Y
webcam N
prolog. Y
Wireless Y
Audio editing Y
video editing N

video editing I havent found yet, I am sure there is, its not a hardware thing, but I cannot get my webcam working so when I do skype with my fiance I have to go back to doze.

On the other hand, things I have been impressed with.

I love that the community is so quick to help.
I did not find it hard to get started off the disk. it just worked. (except for wireless).


this has turned out a lot longer than I intended. hope it is helpful to you developers out there.

Beuleuleu
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat 09 May 2009, 15:11

#19 Post by Beuleuleu »

hi,

i'm noob on puppy, and he's wonderful on an old computer.

but i have two problems :

- in seamonkey i can't see all the web pages (like as the web page are too large for seamonkey), and i don't find how to resize.
- the policies are not nice, it's blurried and my eyes will soon explode.
And i don't know how to change it to have it sharper (must be antialisasing problem).

Sorry for my english :?

Tuna
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat 23 May 2009, 18:57

#20 Post by Tuna »

I'm using Puppy for the first time in an attempt to replace Win98se on a POS HP Pavilion with 128M ram.

I've used Mandriva for a few years now, and I have a couple of Ubuntu servers running in the office for web apps and SAMBA, so I'm not quite a newbie, but Puppy is a fresh experience.

There are some areas where improvements to the setup could be made:
  • partitioning - I have no problem setting up a hard drive for Linux usage, but a neophyte will be lost here. Scripted or automated partitioning would be very useful.
  • software updates - this should be as simple and brainless as Ubuntu's implementation. A message pops up informing the user that updates are available, click, done. I shouldn't have to worry about tarballs, extraction, and directories. The Seamonkey .16 update is a perfect example of how this is flubbed.
  • GRUB - a minor annoyance, but once the OS is installed, I don't need to sit at the boot screen. A default timeout to get to the desktop would be handy instead of having to mess with the menu.lst config.file.
Once I play with the system some more, I'll post some daily usability suggestions, if I think they're worthy of mention.

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