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musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#621 Post by musher0 »

Hello, anikin.

Yes Mandarin will be the lingua franca in a few years, with Quechua close 2nd.

In the meantime, your wonderful file locale.gen does not exist in Slacko
6.9.4 and neither in Slim-6. Therefore Puppy is not a Linux. ;)

It's good to know that locales can be generated like this, but can keyboards?

BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

jlst

#622 Post by jlst »

watchdog wrote:@jlst

I think there is a problem in the first shutdown procedure with my configuration (ext4 partition). The lightencrypted slackosave saved does not work but if I use a renamed slackosave from wary after replacing its content with a slackosave folder it works.
Thanks watchdog, the information you provided has been very helpful. I think I fixed this... https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 986b0627a9

It took me a while to fix this... in my manual tests using 'mmmmmmm' as the password everything seemed to be ok in ext3 and ext4 partitions..... but after rebooting many times trying to figure out what's wrong, I decided to replicate the same commands with the same parameters.. I found the error.

Then it took me a while to get something that works in ext4, ntfs and exfat partitions... as it was failing to create working encrypted savefiles in partitions with any of these fs's. It has been very painful...

I attach a adrv for you to test and report is this fix works for you...
Attachments
adrv_slacko_6.9.6.4.sfs.gz
fake .gz extension - rename to adrv_slacko_6.9.6.4.sfs
(16 KiB) Downloaded 109 times

jlst

#623 Post by jlst »

anikin wrote:...
You're right, that's the right way to do it. I do use locale-gen... or used to use it, locale.gen and locale-gen are deleted in the woof process. i'll fix this, and rewrite the locale stuff.. soon..

Puppy is a bit more rational now, it doesn't connect to icanhazip (by default) or pings google or duckduckgo [deleted references] (i think there is still a script that pings duckduckgo, but you have to call it manually)... with the xorg_base_new pkg template people can use any app to configure the keyboard layout.. in theory..

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#624 Post by musher0 »

jlst wrote:
anikin wrote:...
You're right, that's the right way to do it. I do use locale-gen... or used to use it, locale.gen and locale-gen are deleted in the woof process. i'll fix this, and rewrite the locale stuff.. soon..

Puppy is a bit more rational now, it doesn't connect to icanhazip (by default) or pings google or duckduckgo [deleted references] (i think there is still a script that pings duckduckgo, but you have to call it manually)... with the xorg_base_new pkg template people can use any app to configure the keyboard layout.. in theory..
Hello jlst.

Please explain:
>" .. with the xorg_base_new pkg template people can use any app to
configure the keyboard layout.. in theory..."


Otherwise it's not funny.

It better be go..am simple, because international users will easily get
angry as hell if they don't find their national keyboard easily.

As I said above: if you don't provide it ASAP after first boot, Puppy runs
the risk of being accused of linguistic discrimination.

I'm quite surprised at this "reflex": were the authors of this edit brought
up in an unilingual environment absolutely unaware that other languages
were spoken in the world?

Sorry for being so frank, but that's what it looks like viewed from French-
Canada. This also means that members of minority cultures generally
(not just cf or qc) must continue to be vigilant against bulldozer languages
such as English, Russian and Mandarin.

Concerning the development of Puppy Linux itself , this looks like we're
undoing a solution found many years ago -- and that works well.

"If it works, don't fix it," I'd say. Puppy doesn't need to chase its tail like
this.

BFN
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

jlst

#625 Post by jlst »

musher0 wrote:Concerning the development of Puppy Linux itself , this looks like we're
undoing a solution found many years ago -- and that works well.

"If it works, don't fix it," I'd say. Puppy doesn't need to chase its tail like
this.

BFN
I want to make it very C.L.E.A.R.

The issue was that the /usr/lib/locale [already fixed] directory was missing. In slacko the app that initializes the default locale needs that directory to be present (it only happens in slacko, other puppies start ok).

In a previous post i attached a adrv_slacko_6.9.6.4.sfs file, which also fixes the locale issue. everyone wanting a quick fix may want to add that file to their slacko 6.9.6.4 frugall install dir and start again.

Looking at the lxpup thread, the change in xorg template made the lxde keyboard handler work. The woofce 'native' keyboard handler also works as expected.
peebee wrote:
riedzig wrote:Hi Peebee
I'm still using your excellent LXpup as No. 1 among all distros, but I am also trying to get through some bugs (not found in forums). One of them is the Keyboard Layout switcher/handler), which won't show in any LXPup the appropriate flags in the panel (shows only a blank frame). Do you please know a solution?
Hi riedzig....I'm pleased to report that the Keyboard Handler panel plugin is now working in LxPupSc-17.01.21.....

watchdog
Posts: 2021
Joined: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 18:04
Location: Italy

#626 Post by watchdog »

jlst wrote:
watchdog wrote:@jlst

I think there is a problem in the first shutdown procedure with my configuration (ext4 partition). The lightencrypted slackosave saved does not work but if I use a renamed slackosave from wary after replacing its content with a slackosave folder it works.
I think I fixed this... https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 986b0627a9

I attach a adrv for you to test and report is this fix works for you...
It works! However there is a warning when mounting the lightencrypted savefile after writing the password to load it at e2fsck about the "date in the future" of the superblock probably due to hardware clock not correctly set. My clock is correctly set, I think.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#627 Post by musher0 »

jlst wrote:
musher0 wrote:Concerning the development of Puppy Linux itself , this looks like we're
undoing a solution found many years ago -- and that works well.

"If it works, don't fix it," I'd say. Puppy doesn't need to chase its tail like
this.

BFN
I want to make it very C.L.E.A.R.

The issue was that the /usr/lib/locale [already fixed] directory was missing. In slacko the app that initializes the default locale needs that directory to be present (it only happens in slacko, other puppies start ok).

In a previous post i attached a adrv_slacko_6.9.6.4.sfs file, which also fixes the locale issue. everyone wanting a quick fix may want to add that file to their slacko 6.9.6.4 frugall install dir and start again.

Looking at the lxpup thread, the change in xorg template made the lxde keyboard handler work. The woofce 'native' keyboard handler also works as expected.
peebee wrote:
riedzig wrote:Hi Peebee
I'm still using your excellent LXpup as No. 1 among all distros, but I am also trying to get through some bugs (not found in forums). One of them is the Keyboard Layout switcher/handler), which won't show in any LXPup the appropriate flags in the panel (shows only a blank frame). Do you please know a solution?
Hi riedzig....I'm pleased to report that the Keyboard Handler panel plugin is now working in LxPupSc-17.01.21.....
Sorry, jlst.

Since your "adrive" does not offer the missing keyboards, it does not
solve the minority languages keyboard problem. See for yourself.
[/mnt/+mnt+ho....9.6.4.sfs]>tree
.
└── usr
├── lib
│   └── locale
└── sbin
└── shutdownconfig

4 directories, 1 file
Respectfully.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

jlst

#628 Post by jlst »

watchdog wrote:It works! However there is a warning when mounting the lightencrypted savefile after writing the password to load it at e2fsck about the "date in the future" of the superblock probably due to hardware clock not correctly set. My clock is correctly set, I think.
Sometimes I see this when starting with pfix=fsck, it's a just warning and it only once i think. so it's ok to ignore it.

jlst

#629 Post by jlst »

musher0 wrote:...
It does work on first boot. The 1st locale to be created is en_US.
when you choose another one, it's generated as well. The sole problem was the missing /usr/lib/locale

I haven't tested how puppy behaves after the second boot and adding the adrv. I'll test right now.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#630 Post by musher0 »

jlst.

As you can see from the attached diff report, one of keyboards missing
from your new list is the qc keyboard, the one I use.

Do you have animosity against me? If not, who shall I give a mouthful to?

Perhaps I'm the only Puppyist using that keyboard, but one cannot forget
just like that the millions of French-Canadians who use that keyboard daily
on other OS's.

Also missing in your file are keyboards for the mkd (Macedonian) and srp
(Serbian) keyboard layouts, which were present in Slacko 6.0.

Please find attached a new adrv, zipped, containing the qc keyboard plus
the mkd and the srp keyboards,

Respectfully.
Attachments
adrv_slacko_6.9.6.4.sfs.zip
(Evening edit:) Sorry for the late upload. I just realized.
(16.28 KiB) Downloaded 86 times
missing-qc.compare.zip
(763 Bytes) Downloaded 89 times
Last edited by musher0 on Thu 26 Jan 2017, 05:10, edited 3 times in total.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

jlst

#631 Post by jlst »

Ok, I added the adrv for the second boot and the en_US locale was generated automatically (it's the slacko default locale).

It's because rc.sysinit always calls rc.country and rc.country decides what to do. It's working fine.

The first sign that something is wrong is the locale error when i open geany in the command line, and it's not happening after i loaded the adrv.

It's working fine, as usual.

jlst

#632 Post by jlst »

musher0 wrote:jlst.

As you can see from the attached diff report, the only keyboard missing
from your new list is the qc keyboard, the one I use.

Do you have animosity against me? If not, who shall I give a mouthful to?

Perhaps I'm the only Puppyist using that keyboard, but one cannot forget
just like that the millions of French-Canadians who use that keyboard daily
on other OS's.

Respectfully.
I was not aware of that, i'll fix it. And please don't talk about animosity ... there's always animosity in the way you talk. You make fun of others, but it's an insult when they play your game.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#633 Post by musher0 »

jlst wrote:
musher0 wrote:jlst.

As you can see from the attached diff report, the only keyboard missing
from your new list is the qc keyboard, the one I use.

Do you have animosity against me? If not, who shall I give a mouthful to?

Perhaps I'm the only Puppyist using that keyboard, but one cannot forget
just like that the millions of French-Canadians who use that keyboard daily
on other OS's.

Respectfully.
I was not aware of that, i'll fix it. And please don't talk about animosity ... there's always animosity in the way you talk. You make fun of others, but it's an insult when they play your game.
Sorry about the tone.

I've edited my post above about the keyboards. Double-checking, I
realized the Macedonian and Serbian keyboards present in Slacko-6.0
were also missing in Slacko-694, in addition to the Quebec keyboard.

I took the liberty of also adding a corrected adrive.sfs (zipped) to that
message. You may want to make double-sure it's ok.

BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#634 Post by musher0 »

Hello jlst and all.

Doing further research on the subject of keyboards, for ex. at
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions ... le-options
I found that there are 458 keyboard layouts listed on pastebin.

I am not an X keyboard specialist, far from it, and my intention here is
not to rattle the cage or anything like that. But a question popped up in
my mind: is Puppy offering enough keyboards to be truly international?

I ask because on the face of it, slacko-694 alpha is offering only 116
keyboards in /etc/X11/xkb/symbols. 116/458 is roughly 25%.

Hoping to contribute something (or start a rational discussion) by bringing
this info to people's attention.

BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

jlst

#635 Post by jlst »

I looked in ubuntu and slackware packages, the reason qc is not there is because that kb is long gone. Even precise (2011) doesn't have that kb.

http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/all/ ... a/filelist

The template uses what's available in the distro.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#636 Post by musher0 »

jlst wrote:I looked in ubuntu and slackware packages, the reason qc is not there is because that kb is long gone. Even precise (2011) doesn't have that kb.

http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/all/ ... a/filelist

The template uses what's available in the distro.
Thanks for the reply, jlst.

Sorry for being so ignorant but I do not understand "kb is long gone."
What is "kb"? A utility?
Certainly the keyboard itself (as "kb" abrev.) is not gone.

I also understand how the woof-CE works. But would it be out of line to
supplement what appears to be missing from the source repos?

TIA.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

jlst

#637 Post by jlst »

musher0 wrote: I also understand how the woof-CE works. But would it be out of line to
supplement what appears to be missing from the source repos?

TIA.
No, you don't understand how it works. But i'll add it. It's obviously deprecated outside the puppy bubble created by the old and huge template.

jlst

#638 Post by jlst »

musher0 wrote: Sorry for being so ignorant but I do not understand "kb is long gone."
What is "kb"? A utility?
Certainly the keyboard itself (as "kb" abrev.) is not gone.
I meant keymap, it's not anywhere in recent distros, not even in old distros

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#639 Post by musher0 »

In any case, manjaro still lists it under fr-legacy or qc-latin1
url]https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?titl ... u.C3.A9bec[/url]
Retrieved today at 0 h 37.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

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greengeek
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Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

#640 Post by greengeek »

musher0 wrote:I'm quite surprised at this "reflex": were the authors of this edit brought up in an unilingual environment absolutely unaware that other languages were spoken in the world?

Sorry for being so frank, but that's what it looks like viewed from French-
Canada. This also means that members of minority cultures generally
(not just cf or qc) must continue to be vigilant against bulldozer languages
such as English, Russian and Mandarin.
Hi musher - I think it is unreasonable to consider people "bulldozers" just because they speak the languages spoken by the majority. It is a form of terrorism to try to enforce acceptance of the minority behaviour.

I believe it is important to include minorities wherever possible - but no-one should ram minority behaviours down the throat of the majority.

I think in Canada there has been too much pressure to force multilingualism. It is not compulsory. In the puppy world I think it is ok to develop in one's own mother tongue and hope for others to understand and translate where they can.

Just my 2cents.

(If I could speak french i would - but I don't want to be criticised because I am basically unilingual)

Je m'excuse!
Salut!
Ton ami - gg

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