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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Fri 18 Nov 2011, 17:06    Post subject: Re: App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??
Subject description: grub
 

greengeek wrote:
L18L wrote:
I have a small (16M is more than enough) bootable partion containing grub on every device (1 hardisk, several USB sticks, no CD).

Thus you could try frugal installs without burning a CD


So do you mean that your boot partition is just big enough for grub, and that the remainder of the frugal files live on the usb sticks? So you just use the hard drive as a boot device only? Or did you mean that each usb stick also has grub on it, requiring the PC to support boot_from_usb?
thx


In a boot partition there is grub and a complete tiny distribution (not in use but works). I have used this on my box without harddisk or CD about one year. Yes, boot from USB is required.
Late I have installed a SSD (behaves like a harddisk but faster).
And there too grub in boot partition. Several puppies all frugal in their own directory.

Your Computer has USB but does not boot from it.
With grub in a bootable partition (or any bootloader) of your harddisk you can boot different operating system.
Not the iso directly, but I hope you find elsewhere howto copy the relevant files from inside the iso into the appropriate location.

First step would be:
Use gparted to create an extra boot partition and maybe a swap partition after having resized the existing partition. You can do this from a puppy running from CD.

Second step
Installation of grub. Should be included in Puppy Universal Installer.

To have a partition of its own for grub is not absolutely required but convenient.

I do not have experience using grub4dos, but I assume it is easier to install. (nooby knows how to do it)

Good luck
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 19 Nov 2011, 04:20    Post subject:  

Quote:
I do not have experience using grub4dos, but I assume it is easier to install. (nooby knows how to do it)


Nope I would not count on that at all.
What I do try to learn but is a slow learner is to get Linux distros
that are not supposed to work on NTFS formatted drives to work
or at least to load to desktop so one can see how them are set up
with menu and how one find things and personal settings and what
software that is included and how it looks and behaves.

Sadly due to how hardware and software interact very often one
can not save to the partition that one boot from. Ubuntu due to some
pure luck makes it possible to save to NTFS. I don't trust them support
that and most likely them will change code so it will not be possible
after next security update.

But that is my hobby. see my signature.

1. So it is a trade off. Us Qemu or Vbox or Xen or the new one
that I've forgot name for to test drive things easily?

2. Try my more difficult approach to boot them using tricks
and that way get partial use of many distros but not doing full installs
first but only after you have used them in frugal install for a long time.

3. Try to get hold of an old computer that you can format without
losing anything. or accept to lose the recover partitions when you
resize a new computer.

Why am I fanatic? Because Sony Ericson and other Smartphone makers
seems to have decided that if 95% of all their customers only use Ms
then that is the OS them make use of to upgrade their Software.
So I always try to dual boot with the hated MS OS and I hate it too.

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 19 Nov 2011, 05:59    Post subject:  

grub4dos and grub2 can both boot isos directly, IF the iso is specially "prepared" to allow that functions. How to prepare the iso to do that? no one knows lol.

cant do it with debian but you can with some ubuntus etc
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 19 Nov 2011, 07:58    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
grub4dos and grub2 can both boot isos directly, IF the iso is specially "prepared" to allow that functions. How to prepare the iso to do that? no one knows lol.

cant do it with debian but you can with some ubuntus etc


Nope I trust it is not something I did at all. It is the Ubuntu Developers
that forgot to put an x in a box them always have since many years
and them very proud of doing it too and very adamant in keeping it
ideologically supported with fancy rhetoric in the Ubuntu forums.

then suddenly them forgot to tick that box and now almost all Ubuntu
can be used in a way them had not anticipated nor expected and them
certainly don't want to be used that way.

I would thank D4P for giving me the first part of teh solution but
his system on his home page is too elaborate for me to follow.

One need to do partitions and I don't want to do such.

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2420
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 05:04    Post subject:  

Ok, so far I have mostly been concentrating on GCMartins suggested method of trialling different isos by booting across a LAN (No more wasted CDs!).

More to follow on the other methods later.

The LAN method is this: The puppy PC that contains all of my downloaded iso files is set up as a "Boot file source" or "PXE server" and is available to provide the boot files to any other PC that is set up to "boot from LAN" rather than booting from CD, HDD or USB etc.

If you wanted to you could boot a whole bunch of LAN PCs from the one machine. Don't even need a hard drive or operating system in those other machines.

I was amazed how simple this was to set up. (Thanks GCMartin for the excellent assistance)

Really all it takes is ten minutes to get it running. So easy. And you don't need to have any networking or file sharing already set up at all. Nothing.

I just tried to attach a document detailing the process but apparently neither pdf nor abw attachments are permitted. Hmmm... how best to post this??
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2420
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 05:07    Post subject:  

I will just try pasting the text.... (sorry, this doesn't look very elegant..)

Booting a PC via your LAN - Made Simple:

Premise: This is a simplified explanation for setting up a Puppy PC as a “bootfile source” to make it possible for any other machine on your LAN to boot into Puppy without using ANYTHING on that other machine. You won’t even need a hard drive or operating system installed on that other machine. (And you don’t need to have “networking” or “file sharing” of any kind already set up between the two machines. Nothing at all except the network wiring!)

If you think this sounds too simple to be true, it’s not! It really is so easy! (thanks to GCMartin for excellent coaching through this)

To setup a PC that will provide the service for others to boot from, you MUST add 2 elements to the Puppy on that host machine. You merely need to do this:

1) Install DNSMASQ as follows
Open PPM (Puppy Package Manager)
Locate DNSMASQ by typing it in the PPM search window
Select to install
Exit PPM

2) Install NETBOOT as follows:
Locate NETBOOT <=== cannot be done in PPM. Must use link in Puppy Netboot Guide or get from forum.
Note: The NETBOOT.PET for Puppy installation is made available for download here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?mode=attach&id=37112
Select/download to install

Next, you need to have an ISO for the Puppy distro of your choice. So, if you don't already have one handy, you’ll need to download the Puppy ISO that you want your other LAN PC(s) to boot. Of course, you could use the ISO for the distro you are currently running as well. Once you have an ISO available for use, you may continue:

The host system is now ready for you to start the service that allows booting and to add the ISO to be used for booting. Do the following:
Click menu>Network>Netboot-Server to start the service then choose "normal" (not "debug").
Then open a terminal and type mknetboot.sh
This will run the routine which assembles the bootfiles that will be available to other machines on the LAN when they want to boot. This routine will ask you which ISO you want to use. Just tell it which iso you are trialling and it will quickly set it up and make it available.

That’s it. Your network is ready for any other PC to start. Go to that other PC and start it. As it powers up, hit the key that allows you to tell it where to boot from and select LAN/Network adapter. (getting into the menu that selects boot source can be different for each PC. Often it is ESC, or F1, or F2. Usually there will be a prompt on screen to give you a hint. Otherwise search google for information regarding your model)

Then sit back and watch it load the linux files from your boot source PC (ie "PXE server...") across the LAN.

That’s it. Simple!

***Additional note***
This works really well when both machines are on the wired LAN.
It also worked ok when the empty computer was on the wired LAN but the host (PXE) computer was on the wireless LAN.
It did not work when the empty computer was expected to use wireless (I guess the empty computer had no driver loaded for the wireless).

***Additional additional note***
If you have any issues with the mknetboot.sh or netboot server steps, these notes might help:

PXE booting - extra notes:

mknetboot.sh process:

Before running the mknetboot.sh routine it is best practice to place the donor iso into the /root folder. Anywhere else might give mount errors.

The mknetboot.sh routine needs a lot of space to do its job and will create a large file as a result, so it will be necessary to ensure that there is plenty of space available in the Personal Storage File before you start. (check the icon in the system tray - the one that says “325M free” or the “stacked pancake” icon that is green when plenty of space available, red if low). Resize the personal storage file and reboot before using mknetboot.sh to ensure you avoid this problem.

When running the mknetboot.sh routine make sure that the netboot server is in the stopped state. (Menu, network, netboot server, stop)

I seem to remember the mknetboot.sh routine throwing up an error message at the end about running out of disk space (separate issue to the personal storage file I think). However, it appeared to create the netboot folder and contents successfully, and it did appear to succeed in loading the remote PC via PXE, although I then got a “kernel panic - not syncing” error on the remote PC. I don’t know if this was a failure because of the disk space error, or with incompatibility between that particular iso and the remote PC hardware. Make sure you have plenty of space to avoid such errors.


Netboot server:

The netboot server relies on finding a folder called netboot in the /tmp directory. (This should have been created by mknetboot.sh). The folder should contain the vmlinuz and initrd.gz for the appropriate iso being sent to the remote PC.

Those two files can not just be dropped into the netboot folder from the original iso. They need to be processed and placed there by the mknetboot.sh routine.

Once these two files have been created by mknetboot.sh you can make backup copies of them and swap them into and out of the netboot folder when you want to change the puppy iso that you are loading across PXE. Just stick to the correct names (vmlinuz and initrd.gz), and mentally keep track of which file belongs to which iso (because they will all have the same name...)

Last edited by greengeek on Sat 26 May 2012, 20:23; edited 11 times in total
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 10953
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 09:34    Post subject:  

Greengeek, on the subject of not making coasters to try out Puppy, I've been using CD-RW and DVD-RW for years. Puppy seems to like them just fine. I burn Puppy to them using Burniso2cd.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2420
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 13:28    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
I've been using CD-RW and DVD-RW for years. Puppy seems to like them just fine. I burn Puppy to them using Burniso2cd.


Hadn't thought of that... when I first tried using CDRW (years ago) I had so many problems and lost so much data that I never went back to them. Perhaps the technology has improved a bit?

I'll see if I still have one lying around and give it a go.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2420
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 14:51    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
wrong place I move this post
It was not as easy as you wrote compared to
just using iso boot.

Setting up a server is not an easy thing. Servers are
the most exploited computer thing on earth. I will not do it!


Nooby - I decided to try all of the methods people are suggesting here and I just wanted to let you know that setting up the "server" to share iso files turned out to be so easy that it takes only a few minutes.

It is really handy for me because it means I can even try different puppy isos on machines that don't have a CD drive or can't boot from USB.

It also means I can get my other family members to trial puppy without even getting out of their chair, and without them having to load a CD or USB stick. They can just reboot and select "boot by LAN" and give it a try.

Simple, simple, simple. Just one more bit of fun.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4131
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 19:53    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
grub4dos and grub2 can both boot isos directly, IF the iso is specially "prepared" to allow that functions. How to prepare the iso to do that? no one knows lol.

cant do it with debian but you can with some ubuntus etc
Contact Shinobar via PPM. He is the resident authority on GRUB4DOS. I also understand that rscnr51 also is an authority on GRUB4DOS as well. Ech of these members can help.

I have been booting ISO since February thanks to JamesBiond's Netboot PET. It works flawlessly. And unless you choose to after you have booted the PC there is never any modifications that are necessary. And, should you choose, you can install (frugal or main) after you have booted from the Netboot service.

No knowledge required. Just a little reading for understanding.

Hope this helps

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Fri 02 Dec 2011, 06:00    Post subject: App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??
Subject description: PXE Server
 

greengeek wrote:
..
I just tried to attach a document detailing the process but apparently neither pdf nor abw attachments are permitted. Hmmm... how best to post this??


Just rename your file to file.gz
My 2 cents

Though I cannot use this excellent method because I have got just a poor man´s single computer I want to thank you very much. There is always something new to learn. Smile
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2420
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 02 Dec 2011, 15:39    Post subject: Re: App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??
Subject description: PXE Server
 

L18L wrote:

Just rename your file to file.gz


Oh, o.k. So you just mean change the suffix to .gz? Or do you mean I should use gzip to repackage it? thx
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4131
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun 18 Dec 2011, 20:52    Post subject: Re: App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??
Subject description: PXE Server
 

greengeek wrote:
L18L wrote:

Just rename your file to file.gz


Oh, o.k. So you just mean change the suffix to .gz? Or do you mean I should use gzip to repackage it? thx
Should you chnage the suffix be sure to attach a note or indicate in the comments what was done. Using gzip speaks for itself in that anyone double-clicking a GZIP file gets to see its contents.

Hope thsi helps

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4131
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 20:09    Post subject:  

I saw newbie's post on this.

But, what I miss is an example section for GRUB4DOS that show a modern Puppy's ISO being defined for boot. Is there an example for booting an ISO directly. (I understand about the opening ISO and copying stuff to a folder, BUT, I am looking for a "Boot the Puppy ISO" definition.

Thanks in advance, if you can recommend a sample or example.

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amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2226

PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011, 03:52    Post subject:  

Here's an example (manual commands) as given in this thread:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=774539

grub> map (hd1,1)PATHtoISO.iso (hd4)
grub> map --rehook
grub> chainloader (hd4)+1
grub> rootnoverify (hd4)
grub> boot

Here's an example as it would be written in the menu.lst file:
title Test ISO Boot
map (hd0,0)/Test.iso (hd3)
map --rehook
chainloader (hd3)+1
rootnoverify (hd3)
boot
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