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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 01 Nov 2011, 11:10    Post_subject:  

re: overhaul of the pussy-xtra.squashfs with the extra apps

This overhaul will add these to the existing file:

ace-of-penguins <---- card games
gtkballs <---- connect 5 game
hdparm <---- HDD performance utility (commandline)
openshot <---- entry level video editing, similar to MS Movie Maker in windows
ripperx <---- audio cdrom ripper application
FBreader <----- Ebook reader
Skype <----- Skype (do you really want me to explain this?)

make, gcc, bison, kernel sources etc.... similar to puppy devx
a webcam utility ... still testing for best one.

I need help finding a suitable DVD ripping utility that supports encrypted DVDs.... preferably in the debian repos... if not then a static install. We could use mencoder/ mplayer but its rather technical and commandline stuff is a little freaky to casual users.

Printer and scanner manager is a little above me at the moment. I will need to research more into CUPS etc and do alot of testing. If included in pussy, this should really be in the base OS not the extra apps file.

Virtualbox will be removed as its not working and if we get short on space then assaultcube will be removed to make room for more important stuff.

Saintless has posted 2 very interesting fixes, one is a alsa reinstall and the other adds keymaps for other languages, i havent decided if these will be added to the catroll-panel in this pussy-xtra squashfs or if it will be included in the base OS on the next release.
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1366
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Tue 01 Nov 2011, 12:09    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I need help finding a suitable DVD ripping utility that supports encrypted DVDs.... preferably in the debian repos..



You'll have to add to /etc/apt/souces.list

Code:
#Handbrake
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org sid main


If wanting to use Handbrake. You'll notice I specifically used the "sid" release. There is no "stable" prepackaged binary for Handbrake yet unless you're on Ubuntu, so you have to specify sid.

If wanting a gui for mencoder. I guess acidrip would be the gtk for it.

If I am missing the point entirely. My bad.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 01 Nov 2011, 12:27    Post_subject:  

rokytnji wrote:
Quote:
I need help finding a suitable DVD ripping utility that supports encrypted DVDs.... preferably in the debian repos..



You'll have to add to /etc/apt/souces.list

Code:
#Handbrake
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org sid main


If wanting to use Handbrake. You'll notice I specifically used the "sid" release. There is no "stable" prepackaged binary for Handbrake yet unless you're on Ubuntu, so you have to specify sid.

If wanting a gui for mencoder. I guess acidrip would be the gtk for it.

If I am missing the point entirely. My bad.


thanks for letting me know about handbrake, i didnt think of looking in sid. Will prob just download the .debs manually and use dpkg --install to install them. Thanks for telling me about acidrip aswell. Im not familair with dvd ripping with debian much at all. Puppy dvdsrab is awesome. I doubt ill be able to rig anything up as good as that.
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ciento

Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 03:41    Post_subject:  

@ sickgut: Any idea how many man-hours the implementation
of apt-get took to accomplish? It seemed to have been on many
peoples list of unattainable grails. But you made it happen Cool !!!

Was a huge rewrite of puppy infrastructure necessary?
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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 05:17    Post_subject:  

sickgut wrote:
in the mean time speak up... what do you want included?


Another one to consider would be synaptic.

If your planning to include FFMPEG along with its associated packages and a media-player, then a build of the latest release of "minidlna" would be neat.

Cheers
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5857
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 05:34    Post_subject:  

ciento wrote:
@ sickgut: Any idea how many man-hours the implementation
of apt-get took to accomplish? It seemed to have been on many
peoples list of unattainable grails. But you made it happen Cool !!!

Was a huge rewrite of puppy infrastructure necessary?


Pussy is Debian based....... not Puppy based.

Long,long ago,back in the original Gposil Dpup days, apt-get/Synaptic was basically working but real life interfered and the project was dropped.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 06:11    Post_subject:  

Not sure if it is proper to ask here.
Maybe I have to start a new thread.
Which I most likely already have somewhere???

What is it with Debian and Ubuntu.

Using this code works for Ubuntu but fails for Debian.


title Netrunner 2011 frugal iso boot of netrunner-3.2.iso
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /netrunner-3.2.iso
kernel /netrunner/casper/vmlinuz rw file=/cdrom/preseed/netrunner.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/netrunner-3.2.iso noeject noprompt quiet splash --
initrd /netrunner/casper/initrd.lz


Netrunner is a Kubuntu only in fancy dresses. it is exactly same
as Kubuntu as I get it and I have tested with Ubuntu 11.10
and LinuxMint 11 and Bodhi and Peppermint that is a Lubuntu
but changed enough for them to see it as separate but still
so much Ubuntu that it works in same code and many many other
ubuntus. Almost all ubuntu works with that code.

I trust that none of the Debian works. Them are looking for some file.
that them never find but ubuntu either finds it or do not care.

I mean Ubuntu is famous for not allowing root. Them almost hate
root behavior.

But still this boot code allow ubuntu to be almost as usable as Puppy.

Just now I don't remember a thing that it did not allow me to do.

I don't even need to use sudo apart from when I do reboot from
Terminal then it says I need to be sudo. But I can load a text file
and edit it on the NTFS that I booted from and then save it back.

Neither Pussy nor Linux Mint Debian Edition but the ubuntu edition
of LM allow me to.

I mean there has to be something very special about Debian them
setting up big hurdles or "hoops" to jump over or work around.

Why is that?

if this is a huge derail then I'll try to move it. Sorry

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 06:29    Post_subject:  

ciento wrote:
@ sickgut: Any idea how many man-hours the implementation
of apt-get took to accomplish? It seemed to have been on many
peoples list of unattainable grails. But you made it happen Cool !!!

Was a huge rewrite of puppy infrastructure necessary?


Hi ciento

A while ago (couple of months after Puppy 5 Lucid was released) i did make an apt-get package for Puppy 5.0. It was a fairly simple affair, there where about 10 .deb packages to install and a little customization. Once the basic apt-get was working, i realised that when you apt-get something it will download all the dependencies even if they are already there in the OS so to apt-get install xaos or some other small program, it would want to install almost the entire OS again. Then i had to manual create the "status" file, that keeps track of what is already installed. After visiting i think it was barry's site i found the package list for Puppy 5.0 and from that i created the "status" file. This was more than 4000 lines of code i had to enter in manually as im not very script literate. It took 2 full days to do, but it worked fine. I uploaded the apt-get package on my site for people to download but it only worked on Puppy 5.0 and also required that the devx be installed. For it to work on other puppies i would have to manually create the status file again. Altho it was a useful tool, apt-get was ultimately a fail.
This is because the puppy kernel is very different from the ubuntu one and whenever the user installed something that requires kernel support, it would break your puppy. This included vlc and other popular programs. There wasnt really much at all that you could apt-get, mostly games and smaller programs. It was quite possible to completely kill your puppy by using the apt-get. Eventually i had an accident on my site and i lost the apt-get package for good.

Pussy came about due to the apt-get fail. The only way to have apt-get on a puppy was to build something from the ground up that natively works with apt-get at its very core.

Pussy is like a reverse Puppy. In order to ensure apt-get working 100%, we have to start with a pure debian base, then customize it enough to look and work like puppy while not breaking debian compatibility. I was hoping to get attention from puppy devs to help me port puppy applications to pussy so it could be a real puppy but that hasnt happend and it looks like pussy is on its own now and will develop as such but will always have the same basic jwm xorg rox-filer desktop as puppy.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 06:37    Post_subject:  

nooby wrote:
Not sure if it is proper to ask here.
Maybe I have to start a new thread.
Which I most likely already have somewhere???

What is it with Debian and Ubuntu.

Using this code works for Ubuntu but fails for Debian.


title Netrunner 2011 frugal iso boot of netrunner-3.2.iso
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /netrunner-3.2.iso
kernel /netrunner/casper/vmlinuz rw file=/cdrom/preseed/netrunner.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/netrunner-3.2.iso noeject noprompt quiet splash --
initrd /netrunner/casper/initrd.lz


Netrunner is a Kubuntu only in fancy dresses. it is exactly same
as Kubuntu as I get it and I have tested with Ubuntu 11.10
and LinuxMint 11 and Bodhi and Peppermint that is a Lubuntu
but changed enough for them to see it as separate but still
so much Ubuntu that it works in same code and many many other
ubuntus. Almost all ubuntu works with that code.

I trust that none of the Debian works. Them are looking for some file.
that them never find but ubuntu either finds it or do not care.

I mean Ubuntu is famous for not allowing root. Them almost hate
root behavior.

But still this boot code allow ubuntu to be almost as usable as Puppy.

Just now I don't remember a thing that it did not allow me to do.

I don't even need to use sudo apart from when I do reboot from
Terminal then it says I need to be sudo. But I can load a text file
and edit it on the NTFS that I booted from and then save it back.

Neither Pussy nor Linux Mint Debian Edition but the ubuntu edition
of LM allow me to.

I mean there has to be something very special about Debian them
setting up big hurdles or "hoops" to jump over or work around.

Why is that?

if this is a huge derail then I'll try to move it. Sorry


at present debian-live doesnt support booting from iso in grub, also there is a reference to casper in your code. This is an old method that ubuntu still uses but debian live doesnt. The debia-live devs have told me on there irc chan that preparing the debian-live isos to be compatible with booting from grub is quite high on their list and it may quite possibly be fixed in the next version or so.

i think is quite possible to boot the pussy .img version from grub altho i have not tested this myself.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 08:37    Post_subject:  

Then I understand why it did not work with LMDE but did work with LM 11
which do have casper.

Can one not reuse a casper and add to the Debian boot? Oops maybe
that is naive though them very iso specific and not general?
Can one not change a boot or live directory into a casper directory?

Edit okay thanks for asking them. Will be intersting to see how them
find a solution then. Smile

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

Edited_time_total
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 08:45    Post_subject:  

nooby wrote:
Then I understand why it did not work with LMDE but did work with LM 11
which do have casper.

Can one not reuse a casper and add to the Debian boot? Oops maybe
that is naive though them very iso specific and not general?
Can one not change a boot or live directory into a casper directory?


as i understand, no you cant use casper setup in debian-live
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 09:23    Post_subject:  

rokytnji wrote:
Quote:
I need help finding a suitable DVD ripping utility that supports encrypted DVDs.... preferably in the debian repos..



You'll have to add to /etc/apt/souces.list

Code:
#Handbrake
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org sid main


If wanting to use Handbrake. You'll notice I specifically used the "sid" release. There is no "stable" prepackaged binary for Handbrake yet unless you're on Ubuntu, so you have to specify sid.

If wanting a gui for mencoder. I guess acidrip would be the gtk for it.

If I am missing the point entirely. My bad.


Thanks for telling me about handbrake, i have found handbrake-gtk in squeeze in the debian-multimedia repo. Its working fine and i think it will only add about 20mb to the size of the squashfs file it will reside in.
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1366
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 10:18    Post_subject:  

Quote:

Thanks for telling me about handbrake, i have found handbrake-gtk in squeeze in the debian-multimedia repo. Its working fine and i think it will only add about 20mb to the size of the squashfs file it will reside in.


While being a Puppy user (I try and learn as I grow older). I am a AntiX die hard user. So a lot of my posts here on this forum come from a Debian perspective. So I am more comfortable using apt-get and aptitude and smxi and inxi and incorporate some of that (like inxi) in my MacPup and Puppy 5.2 and Wolfe installs.

Glad handbrake worked out for you. I am LOOKING WITH INTEREST at Pussy Linux. I admire your work and have recommended your distro on other Linux forums when someone who is a Ubuntu or Debian user but unfamiliar with Puppy Linux wants a apt-get terminal in Puppy Linux.

I wish you all the success with your project. Forgive the pun. I think your distro (in a good way) is "Sick" . When I have the time (I run my own motorcycle shop by myself) I might load up Pussy on another Hardrive and see if I can incorporate H2s smxi script into Pussy as a experiment.

Quote:
smxi is an interactive script designed to help people maintain their systems. It supports Debian (Stable, Testing, and Sid) and true Debian based distros (such as, but not limited to, AntiX, Aptosid, Epidemic, Linux Mint Debian [LMDE], Mepis). It does not support Ubuntu based distros because there are too many differences between Debian and Ubuntu.


http://smxi.org/site/about.htm

http://smxi.org/docs/smxi-manual.htm
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 17:05    Post_subject:  

@ aarf

i have been able to find the absolute minimum dependency list for the dialup-ppoe package that as reported by you has dependency issues. The problem is that the whole thing needs kernel sources (3 types!! ?? !!) and a list of other stuff which im sure is complete overkill, but dpkg/ apt system wont function without having these dependencies met.

due to the fact that the pussy-xtra squash is being overhauled and all the devx stuff like make/ bison/ gcc/ g++/ kernel headers ..... etc... etc is going to be included in it, and the dialup-pppoe package requires alot of these deps that are going to be installed anyway because of devx needing many of the same..... i have decided to include the dialup-pppoe with the new pussy-xtra.squashfs and this should fix your issues.

This isnt a perfect solution for those of you with dialup and only running the pussy base OS , as to add the complete dialup-pppoe, meeting all dependencies would add about 60mb to the /addons dir in the ISO and therefore will not be included in the base OS, until i manage to work around the sheer disk size of the package.

Its my understanding that the dialup-pppoe actually works, but screws up apt-get/ dpkg system... so to include it in the /addon dir for the base OS .iso im going to have to cheat to keep it at 3.4mb and make it still work while not messing up apt or dpkg. To do this im going to turn the packages .debs into one static bundle and then zip it. The package will be installed simply by clicking on a script that unzips it onto your main / filesystem, and doesnt update the central package management database. This way you can still use a small dialup addon package in the base OS without causing apt or dpkg to have a temper tantrum.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 04 Nov 2011, 02:40    Post_subject:  

building the squash for the new pussy-xtra.squashfs... the size of the new .iso will be approx 660mb. Assaultcube wasnt removed because we had just enough space for it.. but this game will be the first thing to go if and when i figure out how to get virtual box in the squash without breaking it. I have just got to fix some menus then ill upload, will edit this post and supply url when upload is finnished.
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