PupWin98 gmail doesn't work--pup214R-1.01 crashed disk drive

[don922]

PII 350 256mb ram 256mb swapfile

I am using PupWin98 with the mozilla browser. I cannot get gmail to work, consistently. When I select gmail from the Google screen in the browser the following process happens:

a) log in is requested
b) I log into gmail
c) the log-in is accepted
d) gmail starts to load
e) the status bar indicates "Done"

The screen remains blank and doesn't display my gmail account. Perhaps, 1 time in 25 trys gmail works correctly, but it is very slow compared to Win98.

I am trying to quit having to use Windows for the internet and this is keeping me being able to quit.

Has anyone run into this problem?

Any idea how I can fix it?

[Bruce B]

Your version 1.07 of Puppy is old.

Your version of Mozilla old.

Can you download a newer version of Puppy, burn it to disc, boot it and try with newer software to help isolate the problem?

[don922]

I live in a rather remote area and use a very old computer which still serves my purposes. I cannot burn CDs or readily get to a shop that can supply me with Live disks, which is one of the reasons that I use this old version of Puppy, besides that I have some old software that I need Win98 to run.

Can you recommend a version of Puppy that I can download and run ISOBuster on so that I can load it on my hard drive?

[Bruce B]

If you use Puppy you don't need ISOBUSTER but it doesn't matter how you extract the necessary files.

The version I guess I'd recommend is 3.01, others might recommend 4.xx but it's still in alpha or testing phase (I think) and being a bit conservative, I'll recommend 3.01

Yes - you can easily do a manual install. You already have GRUB.EXE for booting.

How about downloading Puppy ISO, once its downloaded, tell the forum what version it is and ask for specific manual install instructions. I've not personally used 4.xx, so if you download it, someone else will have to help you.

Otherwise, I feel confident that I can help you with 3.01 or if not me others can also for sure.

Also, when you post back, please tell exactly the following:

• 1) where is grub.exe?
  
  2) where is menu.lst?
  
  3) do you have an text (commands) in config.sys or autoexec.bat? If so will you post the text? The reason why is I'll come up with a more expedient way of booting for you if I have these answers.

[don922]

I have been a little worried about using any of the newer versions of Puppy because my computer is so old. If you think that 3.01 will work at a reasonable speed on a PII 350 with 256mb ram that is what I will download. I really like PupWin98 other than I couple of problems I have had with lettering sizes. I like the Firefox browser better than Mozilla or Seamonkey if one of the newer versions might have it.

Here is the information that was requested:

Autoexec.bat
SET Path=%Path%;"C:\Program Files\Common Files"
deltree /y C:\windows\temp\*.*

Config.sys is empty

The system has two copies of grub:

C:\root\grub contains a copy of grub.exe (dated 2/5/06) and a copy of menu.lst

C:\Puppy has, a copy of grub.exe (dated 9/1/03) and menu.lst

[Bruce B]

Performance should be fine.

I don't plan on you removing your existing Puppy, so you can dual boot between versions.

Give me up to 12 to 14 hours to respond in detail, okay?

[don922]

No problem - I need the time to download Puppy 3.01 and get ready to install a new OS.

I don't plan on you removing your existing Puppy, so you can dual boot between versions.

The dual boot will be Win98 and Puppy 3.01 because PupWin98 boots from within Win98. I don't think that makes any difference.

Update 2/21/08 7:35PM

I have downloaded Puppy3.01-seamonkey.iso and Pup214R-1.01.iso. I put them on a USB drive and will take them to the "big city" (Rachaburi) and see if I can get a couple of CDs burnt. I will try to go tomorrow, but I may have to wait until Saturday. This computer will boot from the CD drive.

Update 2/22/08 1:13PM

I was able to get the CDs burnt and the computer will boot with both of them. I was able to get Gmail with both versions.

I may be mistaken but, it seems like pup214R-1.01 is using the information saved by Puppy3.01. I booted and set up 3.01 before 214R. Can this happen? How do I fix it?

[don922]

After the strange action of Pup214R-1.01 the drive that I had saved the Puppy3.01 data to disappeared. I could not see it in Puppy3.01 or in Win98. I tried to look for it in Windows with Partition Magic but, Partition Magic would start and gave the following error message:

Disk 3(OMB 1c 1h 512s) appears to have partitions created using a different drive geometry (255 h 63s). This serious problem can lead to data loss.

No partition manipulation should be made to this disk using this product, or the operating systems products. You should backup the data on this disk, delete all partitions, create new partitions under the new geometry, and then restore your data using the backup.

I could not see the drive in Windows or DOS. Spinrite 5 wouldn't run and kept returning some lame error message about a missing driver for a card that isn't even in the system. I was finally able to see the drive and it's partitions after several tries using Partition Magic in DOS. Now I can see and read the partition in Windows Explorer.

The following files are on the partition that Puppy3.01 was writing to:

PUP_SA~1.2FS.............................................524MB
PUP_301.SFS...............................................79.9MB
ZDRV_301.SFS.............................................17.9MB
PUPSWAP.SWP..............................................102MB

What is the best way to handle this incident? Wipe out these files and start over again. Is this likely to happen again if I use Pup214R-1.01 after I use Puppy3.01?

It seemed like 214R was looking for old Puppy files.

Confused,

Don

[mbutts]

Welcome to Puppy!
Until Bruce B gets back to you this might help. If you are booting 2.14r 1.01 from the CD you need to type in Pfix=ram at the first welcome screen. This will tell the computer not to load and use any saved session. If you load a saved session .2fs file it will change the name of the drive. Hda1 or sda1 for example will change to home on the bottom of desktop screen in 2.14r 1.01.

PUP_SA~1.2FS.............................................524MB is your saved session from 3.01.
What I am presently doing here on my laptop is booting from CD. I have 2 partitions. Hda1 and hda5. I have saved sessions on both partitions. I renamed one pup_save_firefoxflash214r.2fs. As Puppy boots, it asks which .2fs file to load. It sees both on hda1 and hda5. In my case I choose the second one from hda5 and this turns hda5 into my home drive.
I also made a backup of my 2.14r 1.01 .2fs file that works good and saved in a separate folder. That way if I am trying something and mess my Puppy up, I can copy the good .2fs file from the folder back onto the hard drive where Puppy will see it and load it.

I am not sure how things would work if you try to load a Puppy 2.14r 1.01 .2fs saved session from your hard drive that has files from a different version. On my computer I have files from the 2.14r 1.01 CD saved to a partition to load quicker than just from the CD.
I run Windows XP on a fat 32 partition and put in a Puppy CD to boot Linux. That way I don't have to work with duel boot. I can load a different saved .2fs file with different personalities. Since I have more than one saved with different names I just pick the one for the particular configuraton that I want. Hopefully this will help. Bruce B can help you with grub since I'm not very familiar with that aspect.

[Bruce B]

Don,

I'm sorry, demands took me elsewhere. I'd intended to mockup a full PupWin98 install, then carefully document each step in the conversion and upgrade. Most sorry that I didn't meet my schedule and let you down.

A very careful and detailed step by step is time consuming. I'll offer you a (more simple for me to make) set of instructions in this post, but a little harder for you to follow.

We need to copy some files from the 3.01 ISO image to hda1, which must be your C: otherwise the pupwin98 would not have worked.

I recommend this directory to install the 3.01 Puppy files:
/dev/hda1/puppy301

This directory will contain the following files from the ISO
initrd.gz
pup_301.sfs
vmlinuz
zdrv_301.sfs

Also contained in the directory but not from the ISO

IDEHD (empty manually made with the touch command)
pup_save.2fs (will be auto generated)

You already have GRUB and menu.lst. Open menu.lst with a text editor add the entries below.


title Puppy Frugal 3.01
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
kernel /puppy301/vmlinuz pmedia=idehd psubdir=puppy301
initrd /puppy301/initrd.gz

---------------------------------

Notes and cautions:

You will want plenty of free space. 1GB would be good. You will want to consider free space when determining the size of your pup_save.2fs file.

It would be good to run W98 and defrag the drive prior to installing 3.01

A swap file of about 100MB would be nice to have, but how to make and active it is not covered in this post. But maybe Puppy will automatically make one. Look for the existence of a file called pupswap.swp at C:\ after your install.

You will boot Puppy 3.01 the same way you boot Puppy 1.07 - the menu.lst will display two boot options and fortunately you won't run into name conflicts due tp different file locations and names.
------------------

As far as showing how to add a config.sys menu item, I'll need to install PupWin98 and see what GRUB its using and where it puts it. So that part is out for now.

Recapping:

• Install the files as I've stated.
  
  Modify menu.lst

That should be sufficient for now, until I work out more refinements. And again, sorry for my delay.

Linux and DOS have different ways of terminating lines. Not knowing what kind of text editors you have used or will use. I'd recommend setting all the line terminators with the DOS convention of CRLF.

While in Linux and in the GRUB directory run the command:

# unix2dos menu.lst - although it could be that GRUB is able to work with mixed line terminators, I just tend to like things consistent.

To locate and work with /dev/hda1 (C:) from Puppy you will probably need to change directories to /mnt/home. If that directory exists which I expect it to will be /dev/hda1.

Any problems ask for anyones help.

[ICPUG]

The detailed instructions for dual booting Puppy 3.01 and Windows 98 are here:

http://www.icpug.org.uk/national/linnwi ... innwin.htm

Hope that saves Bruce some time!

ICPUG

[Bruce B]

ICPUG

The part that I don't like about PupWin98 is booting clear into Windows, clicking on a .pif file to drop to DOS to boot Puppy.

The decision to run Puppy can be made on the initial boot without any need to run Windows at all, simply by using config.sys menu system. (not to mention other ways)

I don't mind the time. But in this case I wanted to actually make a page, (which is time consuming), that would be complete enough I wouldn't have to keep reinventing the wheel by reposting similar content over and over again. Sort of a one page answers all for PupWin98 users and other users of the FAT file system.

Thanks

Bruce

[don922]

Bruce,

Thank you for your reply I will have to read it a couple of more times as it is a whole new experience for me and I don't understand Linux very well. Don't worry about not meeting any schedule with me -- you certainly didn't let me down.

I don't understand the following:

IDEHD (empty manually made with the touch command)
pup_save.2fs (will be auto generated)

I already have a 256MB swap file in the C:\ partition called puppy.swp from PupWin98. Puppy 3.01 made a 102MB swap file in the I:\ partition. (This file was listed in an earlier message.)

Can I edit menu.lst in Windows or must it be done in Linux? I have 2 copies of grub does it matter which one I use?

You already have GRUB and menu.lst. Open menu.lst with a text editor add the entries below.

You indicated that I should put Puppy3.01 in the C:\ (/hda1) partition is there any way to use a different partition? Windows by itself has enough problems.

Don

[don922]

mbutts,

Thank you for your information on how to avoid the problem I had with 214R. Because I only ran the program one time I don't remember the "first welcome screen" but, I will pay more attention next time.

I like your method of running Puppy from the CD with 2 different save files.

Again, thanks for the information.

Don

[Bruce B]

Bruce,

Thank you for your reply I will have to read it a couple of more times as it is a whole new experience for me and I don't understand Linux very well. Don't worry about not meeting any schedule with me -- you certainly didn't let me down.

If a person understands DOS well, it makes understanding Linux easier. I will try and clear up any specific understanding you express.

I don't understand the following:

IDEHD (empty manually made with the touch command)
pup_save.2fs (will be auto generated)

Touch is a utility included with Puppy as well as most distros. It's a CLI utility, meaning it's run by the Command Line Interpreter. Simply stated, you click on the rxvt or console icon to open it and run it by typing things into the keyboard. The first thing to do is get an idea of what touch does and how to use it. Most CLI programs have a help which can be accessed with this switch --help or -h

So, we open rxvt and type:

# touch --help

We note that help is a utility used for changing time stamps, it can also be used for creating empty files. The following command will create a new file called IDEHD.

# touch IDEHD

-------------------------

With Puppy 1.07 it creates the user file when it first booted. This file was probably called pup001. Later versions of Puppy, starting I think with v2 makes the user file after boot. Meaning as you shutdown or reboot you are giving options for making the user file. That's what I meant by auto generated.

After you boot and then reboot Puppy version 3.01 you will be given the option to save your user file. At which time it will be made for you. This file name is most always pup_save.2fs or pup_save.3fs on some version.

I already have a 256MB swap file in the C:\ partition called puppy.swp from PupWin98. Puppy 3.01 made a 102MB swap file in the I:\ partition. (This file was listed in an earlier message.)

I guess I missed that. The most important thing is you have an active swap file. I doubt Puppy is using both files. In order to determine which one it's using you can run the following command.

# free

Here is the output of free on my computer:

Code: Select all

              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:      2595912       403624      2192288            0        13760
 Swap:       554200            0       554200
Total:      3150112       403624      2746488

This output tells me the size of my swap file and because it shows up in the output it also tells me that it is activated.

On your output if it shows a swap file, it will tell the size. By this you can deduce which swap file it's using. You could also use both swap files by inserting commands, but I think 100MB or 256MB are sufficient.

Can I edit menu.lst in Windows or must it be done in Linux? I have 2 copies of grub does it matter which one I use?

In your case GRUB is a DOS program. As such it would work with the DOS CRLF line endings. I don't know if it works with the Linux LF line endings. CR means Carriage Return, LF means Line Feed. You could as I suggested earlier use any text editor then run the unix2dos utility to put all EOL (end of line) as CRLF. And it may not matter depending on how flexible GRUB.EXE is with the EOLs.

I know you have two copies of GRUB, if the one you've been using works then use it.

You already have GRUB and menu.lst. Open menu.lst with a text editor add the entries below.

You indicated that I should put Puppy3.01 in the C:\ (/hda1) partition is there any way to use a different partition? Windows by itself has enough problems.

You can put it in a different partition using the same instructions I gave for C: /dev/hda1. But Linux is not a self booting operating system. It needs a boot loader which in your case is GRUB. GRUB will follow the commands given in menu.lst - therefore menu.lst commands will have to be changed as needed to reflect the different location.

GRUB, DOS and Linux identify drives and partitions differently. I already deduced that GRUB sees C: as (hd0,0) and Linux sees it as /dev/hda1. As far as I:, by the DOS convention it could even be on a different HDD or on the same psychical drive as C:

If you put Puppy 3.01 on I:, I have no way of knowing how GRUB sees it or how Linux will see it. This would have to be determined. It is imperative that menu.lst be exact as far as corresponding with GRUB and Linux' way of seeing things.

Not to worry, it can be determined. If you want to learn how to make the determination, post and let me know.

Don

Bruce

[don922]

Bruce,

In accordance with your recommendations I have:

1) Increased the size of C:\ (hda1) by 2GB so there is almost 4GB of free space
2) Deleted all data and the swap file that was in the I:\ (hdd6)
3) I have defragmented C:\ (hda1)
4) I have reduced the PupWin98 swap file to 100MB

This directory will contain the following files from the ISO
initrd.gz
pup_301.sfs
vmlinuz
zdrv_301.sfs

I have to ask another really dumb question, how do I do this? When I made similar entries in the installation of PupWin98 I made them in the C:\ or C:\Puppy.

In menu.lst, I assume, I add the entries above the final line of:

###########################

Can I use the same swap file for both PupWin98 and Puppy3.01?

Finally, the reasons that I did not want to use C:\ (hda1) for both Puppy installations was that I didn't want to have problems between the two puppies. Also, because of the sloppy way that Windows writes data to the hard drive compared to Linux I wanted to avoid writing Windows and Linux data to the same partition -- I shudder when I think of how the Windows defragmenting program can knit data from the three OS together.. I wasn't aware of the fact that each Grub, Linux, and Windows each see drives differently.

I'm not being critical; but when I installed PupWin98 I was on the Internet about 10 minutes after I booted into the program the first time. Granted gmail didn't work and that is why we are here. Now I know why so many people just boot from the bare CD.

Don

[jonyo]

I'd be interested (would help others too) in details about the internet connection & how you went about it? Make, model adapter, driver used, type connection etc?

Have you looked into adding a more recent browser in pupwin98 that may sort out the gmail prob?

[don922]

jonyo,

I have really a plain vanilla slow internet connection. I use a Billion BIPAC 5210S ADLS 2+ modem router connected to the computer by means of a generic ethernet card. The router modem was provided by my ISP at a nominal cost. I cannot recommend it because I haven't been able to get driver updates for it. Updates are available on the internet from a dealer in Australia, but the dealer warns that the driver should not to be used on systems outside Australia.

The ISP that I use is government telephone company which is the only one available where I live. I am supposed to be getting 256Kbps download and 128Kbps upload. The fastest download I've seen was about 27Kbps. If I ever get comfortable with Puppy trying to speed up my internet connection will be my next project.

The setup of the internet connection in PupWin98 was with the network Wizard and went exactly as it is described in the PupWin98 notes. I didn't have any problem until I tried to install my printer, which I figured out with help from one of your fellow Canadians.

You asked:

Have you looked into adding a more recent browser in pupwin98 that may sort out the gmail prob?

No, I haven't, right now I don't know enough about Puppy Linux to comfortably remove one browser and install a different one. The only browser that I have ever used was FireFox (I don't like either Mozilla or SeaMonkey but I can live with them for the present.)

I have not found a version of Puppy that really fits my computer. I am in the process of installing 3.01, but one of the 2 series would probably run better on my computer. I am very very confused by the number of Puppies available and which ones will work the best for me.