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Just-Lighthouse64-603/604
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Dry Falls

Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 571
Location: Upper Columbia

PostPosted: Tue 28 Jul 2015, 10:31    Post subject:  

They're the same version except less other stuff like kde on the "custom". Just a booting experiment. I don't have another 64 bit box to try this on and my own box is lying when it says legacy boot is enabled.

I know exactly what you mean about remastering, which is why I cheat.

df
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edoc


Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 4722
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul 2015, 14:12    Post subject:  

A post in this thread

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=858729#858729

wants to know if LH-64-603 supports ntfs read/write.

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Dry Falls

Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 571
Location: Upper Columbia

PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug 2015, 02:34    Post subject:  

Looks like the problem isn't Lighthouse but windows. Unless specifically told not to in the terminal running as administer, the windows "swap" remains in memory. Hence the message received is that the partition (ntfs) is in use and is therefore opened read-only. It's the same whether you're running lighthouse or fatdog or slacko or any other. In win8, type this in the terminal (as administrator)
Code:
powercfg -h off
and then power off (that's "off", not "restart"). And not from the menu, but win-key X. Restart linux and the ntfs partition will be accessible.

df

Last edited by Dry Falls on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 05:34; edited 1 time in total
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Dry Falls

Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 571
Location: Upper Columbia

PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug 2015, 05:30    Post subject:  

New JL64-603 delta patch and kernel package (k4.1.3) at g-drive. I can actually see the difference between this kernel & previous ones. See opening post.

df
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 774
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug 2015, 13:34    Post subject:  

Dry Falls wrote:
Looks like the problem isn't Lighthouse but windows. Unless specifically told not to in the terminal running as administer, the windows "swap" remains in memory. Hence the message received is that the partition (ntfs) is in use and is therefore opened read-only. It's the same whether you're running lighthouse or fatdog or slacko or any other. In win8, type this in the terminal (as administrator)
Code:
powercfg -h off
and then power off (that's "off", not "restart"). And not from the menu, but win-key X. Restart linux and the ntfs partition will be accessible.

df


Quote:
Unless specifically told not to in the terminal running as administer, the windows "swap" remains in memory.


Windows swap remains in MEMORY? Then how does Puppy automatically load into RAM?

I should also mention that I've just now booted Lighthouse 64 602b2 on the same machine, and from within Lighthouse, there's no problem copying to NTFS files! There was no ntfs-3g error popup, and half a dozen files wrote without incident to the same ntfs partition that the Lighthouse usbflash installer mounted read-only with the internal ntfs driver.

So, evidently, the problem is not in Windows, or even in Puppy, but in the Lighthouse LiveCD/DVD "save" app.

BTW - I've been using Puppy 528 loading the 2fs save files and rewriting them for years in PCs with Windows 2000, Windows 7 and/or XP installed, and never had to use this command line kludge after the proper ntfs-3g driver was installed in 2012 (IIRC). Nor have I ever had this read-only ntfs problem with Knoppix or Slackware.

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Dry Falls

Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 571
Location: Upper Columbia

PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug 2015, 15:02    Post subject:  

Otropogo, we're dealing with 64 bit systems here, which is a completely different ball of wax than Lupu or any of the 32 bit puppies. If there is a conspiracy, it's certainly not with the distro developers. Look to the fat cats for that sort of behaviour. Also, remember that puppy is an operating system which uses pre-existing builds like umbutu, T2, slackware, etc. BarryK, 0Micko, Kirk & Bond, Tazoc did not create the binaries you're complaining about. They've given us gifts to explore and play with.

If you want a really good system that just works, Peebee's lxpup64 is a derivative of Slacko64 that boots in the newer 64 bit uefi environment. Another thing to remember is that the hardware people have no real consistency or standardization in their products. Lighthouse uefi installer is suitable for a specific, older 64 bit box. 0micko's system (woofce) is more suitable to newer machines/hardware. Some of these older kernels just need to be tossed if you've got a newer box.

No one is trying to make your life miserable. It's just that the whole world has become one big cluster f'k. To take your mind off it, I suggest finding a hobby you enjoy rather than one that gives you a feeling of drudgery.

Here's something to google: "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" in the archaic expressions department. If you come to a dead end, I can explain it to you.

df
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 774
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug 2015, 22:36    Post subject:  

Dry Falls wrote:
Otropogo, we're dealing with 64 bit systems here, which is a completely different ball of wax than Lupu or any of the 32 bit puppies. ......

Here's something to google: "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"...

df


I asked you a simple question:

Quote:
Windows swap remains in MEMORY? Then how does Puppy automatically load into RAM?


And when I said "Puppy" I didn't mean Lupu, I meant Lighthouse 64 602b2. It loads into RAM automatically.

So what's the answer?

I'm wondering if it's that you don't know the difference between media storage and RAM, or even what a swap file is and how it works?

As for your allusion to "gift horses" - you're the one who doesn't understand what this expression means. There's no gift here.

If I were paid minimum wage for all hours I've spent troubleshooting Linux and documenting it here and elsewhere, I'd have enough change to buy a very nice car - and I got no benefit at all from most of that troubleshooting. So where's the gift, eh?

Your reply clearly indicates that you don't read very carefully. You managed to miss the whole gist of my problem, even though I went to some lengths to underscore it.

Why don't you try your little fix yourself? See if you can put a save file on an ntfs partition on your hard drive for the Lighthouse 64 602b2 LiveCD to use?

As for your conspiracy rant, I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth.

I very much doubt that any "fat cats" care enough about any Puppy, or all them put together, to produce a USBflash installation "binary" that sabotages saving to an ntfs disk from the LH 64 LiveCD.

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Dry Falls

Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 571
Location: Upper Columbia

PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug 2015, 23:15    Post subject:  

You'll notice I put "swap" in parentheses. It's the unique 64bit ms-windows hibernation mechanism dealing with the page file, but that's irrelevant to this discussion. I did offer a fix. You have to turn off your windows box the way the documentation suggests (to disable hybernation).

Not free? How much did you pay for your puppies? Did someone pull your arm? I've been frugal installing to ntfs (had to to even get gparted to make a linux partition) from the get go. But I read the instructions first.

by
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug 2015, 12:41    Post subject:  

I just tested use of a save-sessions on a NTFS.

here's my HDD and system config
HDD
    Primary1 - Win restore (DOS)
    Primary2 - Win OS (NTFS)
    Extended (Primary 3) - the following are partitions within the Extended
      Area1 - Linux (ext4)
      Area2 - SWAP
    Primary4 - Win diags (DOS)
Boot Media
    DVD
  • Using boot option 4 it finds only save-sessions on DVD.
  • Using default option, it finds all HDD save-sessions but not DVD save-sessions
Questions
What is the problem you are seeing?
We may be missing something in what you are doing.

Hope this is helpful

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 774
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug 2015, 15:49    Post subject: Fix found, without help, but probably not worth the effort
Subject description: Display issues and save to ntfs prove to be in the installer and Grub
 

gcmartin wrote:
I just tested use of a save-sessions on a NTFS.

here's my HDD and system config
HDD
    Primary1 - Win restore (DOS)
    Primary2 - Win OS (NTFS)
    Extended (Primary 3) - the following are partitions within the Extended
      Area1 - Linux (ext4)
      Area2 - SWAP
    Primary4 - Win diags (DOS)
Boot Media
    DVD
  • Using boot option 4 it finds only save-sessions on DVD.
  • Using default option, it finds all HDD save-sessions but not DVD save-sessions
Questions
What is the problem you are seeing?
We may be missing something in what you are doing.

Hope this is helpful


Thanks for your efforts GC. But I think they would have been more useful if you had read my previous posts a bit more carefully, and made fewer assumptions. So let me try to make this as simple as possible.

1. I didn't use a DVD, but a CD-RW, to burn the iso.

2. I used burniso to CD in Puppy 528 (thanks to your tip on enabling CSM)
to burn the iso, because I've found it much more reliable than pburn.

3. I had previously run md5sum on the iso, and I also ran the verify function in burniso. Both confirmed a clean copy

4. NB: because of limitations on saving to CD/DVD in previous Puppies (in my experience, once you save to CD, you have no other save options, but must continue to save to CD), I never choose multi-session writes for isos, and so burned a finalized LiveCD

5. I booted with some minor problems getting the display to appear, and getting the ethernet driver recognized and connected, but eventually got the desktop, with some serious problems on two WMs, but a working Openbox.

6. Next I proceeded to do a USBflash install, and ran into major problems. I didn't make notes and so I can't really detail exactly what happened, except that the suggestion to first use the universal installer didn't help anything.

7. I tried various suggested options for installing the USBflash, and got some bizarre results, the most remarkable being that, without being asked or warned a second partition appeared on both of the two CF cards I was using. One card had only a 1GB capacity, and the installer put the LH sfs files on a partition of about 256MB, IIRC. The other had a 2GB capacity, and the installer appears to have been able to install all of the sfs files on one of them, leaving the other partition empty (as on the first CF).

Neither card would boot.

8. I eventually managed to get two bootable USBflash installations (on a single partition) by using the non-UEFI install to USB HD option during installation.

9. But when I booted from each of these CF cards, the system warned me not to remove the cards before concluding the session.

10. and when I closed the session, there was no option to save the configuration to anything except the CF card from which I had booted. Later experimentation proved that just the pets and updates that I had wanted to install would take up more space than was available on the 2GB card.

So USBflash installation turned out to be useless to me.

11. Next I tried to simply use LiveCD, which supposedly would allow me to save my configuration and installed programs to a 2fs file on the hdd.

So after booting from the LiveCD I installed a whole slew of pets and updates, set up the firewall, etc. and rebooted, expecting to be able to save all this to a 2fs files for use on the next boot.

12. I got a list of available hdd partitions, all of them ntfs, but when I chose my data partition, sda6, where all of my other pupsave files reside and load from, the red error message advising me that I would not be able to write to the ntfs partition popped up.

If you can understand Dry Falls' post about this being an ntfs partition in RAM occupied by a Windows "swap" file, then please explain it to me, as he/she refuses to.

As I pointed out to him/her, if it's RAM he's talking about, then how to explain that both the USBflash install and the LiveCD of LH64 automatically copy to this same RAM without any problems.

And if it's actually the sda6 ntfs partition on my hard drive, then how to explain that Lupu528 is able to write its 2fs files to this same partition, despite it being "in use" by a Windows 8 "swap" file. And how to explain that Windows would choose precisely my data partition for its swap file?

End of story.

Having just invested another eight hours of my time in trying to make Lighthouse64 work from LiveCD or USB, and having finally succeeded, I share my results below for those who might find them useful, if only to avoid these pitfalls. For me the final success has been disappointing.

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug 2015, 00:50    Post subject: Successfull install & run Lighthouse64 602b2 via USB/CD  

Don't use the Lighthouse installer. Use Rufus instead.

Here's what happened to me.

I booted from the Lighthouse liveCD, and found that the F2 key, advertised as offering some options, offered nothing except a two line menu which offered reboot or return to main menu.

At the maind menu there's are 9 option lines, and so I started with the the filecheck boot option.

The installation passed muster, but couldn't configure the display to be readable.

I had to hit Ctl-alt-bkspc, and then got the suggestion to enter xwin - same result, or

xorgwizard - same result again, or

xorgwizard-puppy - and then I was returned to the command line prompt.

I rebooted and tried all of the options in the initial boot menu,except #7, IIRC. The one for serious display difficulties, #8, wasted most of my time.

Each time I had to reboot the system. - probably fifty times or so, trying every resolution listed by the boot menu , and then all of the ones Intel's Windows display app offered - eleven of them. The result was the same in each case. No display.

After a few hours of this, I finally decided to give the Rufus USBflash installer, suggested to me by Muggins, over in the Other Distros thread, for installing Linux Mint to USBflash directly from the iso.

I read the instructions, and ran the installer on the LH64 iso.

On the first boot try, it showed the desktop at my system's native resolution of 1680x1050.

Not only that, but the problems I had with disappearing drop down menus I'd reported previously in two of the Windows Managers didn't show up.

But when I opened the xorgwizard from the desktop, to see what options it would offer, I had to reboot and start from scratch. So there's definitely something wrong with the xorgwizard in LH64.

However, I rebooted back to my desktop in high res, then downloaded and installed a good 500MB of apps and updates, then saved the lot to a 2GB 2fs file I'd created at shutdown on the very same sd6 ntfs partition the bad bad Windows "swap" partition had blocked on my previous attempts.

So, had I used rufus intially, instead of the native installer in Lighthouse64, I would have saved myself many hours of frustration and other unpleasantness.

But the sad result is that, even when running seemingly smoothly, Lighthouse64 is inadequate.

Here's what I found when I tried to find, download, and install just a very few of my essential linux apps.

Rawstudio - not found
Darktable - not found
UFRaw - found, installed, but missing a dependency libexiv2.so.12, and doesn't work
another RAW application, can't remember the name, downloaded, installed, no missing dependencies, but I can't find a menu entry or icon, no idea how to run it. Not much good.

Xfprot - not found

Clam AV - found, installed, no missing dependencies, but can't find a menu entry for it anywhere, so have no idea how to use it, normally I use the ClamTK gui, but that wasn't downloaded.

So, a hell of a lot of work, frustration, time spent, for nothing.

How do you NOT look a gift horse like that in the mouth?

Beware of geeks bearing gifts.

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:49    Post subject:  

Hello @Otropogo. I can see your frustrations and apologize for not getting assumptions to match what I thought you were conveying.

Let me share a little of my efforts with this distro (and FATDOG) over the past 5+ years with this and other PUP 64bit distros.

Let me begin by saying (this has been documented multiple times in the past): "Of all the PUP distros LH64 is the ONLY distro that has gotten ALL of my 64bit PC's peripherals CORRECT: Namely Video sync, audio setup, microphone needs, TOUCH, LAN card detection and use (my motherboard has 2), and WiFi right out of the box. No issues whatsoever booting from Live DVD versus the frustrations felt with other PUPs with one/some of these. The system/motherboard discovery, in my experiences, was perfect. I believe Emsee was the only other 1 which got it right for me.

First, since every 64bit PCs come from their vendors with writable DVDs, I have never used CDs since except for car's audio needs. This, for me, is especially true since the CD disc cost and the DVD cost are the same. In fact, FATDOG, which is what the LH64s have as a base, specifically states that CDs are NOT supported. Their clarity is that it is not a tested disc media and therefore they don't support .... even thought they mention it "might" work. And, further, I seem to remember somewhere here in LH or in FD it is maintained or recommended to use multi-session burning of the ISO. BUT, if it boots on your PC, that one less step to concern with.

Next, assuming you have a Mariner distro, that distro will consume ALL space that a CDROM provides, thus, there will be no room left to save your session file(s) as you progress. And, I understand you burned the CD, finalized. So, I understand why the system may not be offering it, as well, for session saves.

I have little to no experience in using USB as a boot media for LH. I have tested the process for burning hybrid media to USB as far back as when it was 1st offered by FD. And, I am aware that it worked for me in tests. But, I have not nearly the wealth of experiences you now have due to the efforts you show us.

On the apps that you have installed where you don't see the menu item(s) that the apps shared at the end of each's install, there may be a way to see them. Exit the desktop to the system console and enter this command:
Code:
fixmenus
Then return to your desktop, and there is a likely chance you will find those menu items you expect.

Now that your comments are on this thread, I must ask: Are you running Just-Lighthouse? OR are you running LH64 as these are similar but different? Reason for asking: The display problem, as you describe, is one I have had with JLH, but not with LH. And, in JLH, it has required a trial and error effort to resolve, too. Once I have it accurate setup, it remains properly set across sesion-saves and reboots.

Lastly, I have not, do not, nor advise anyone to use a SWAP file in any filesystem. I have found it best to create a partition whose size is at least the size of one's PC RAM and to format that partition as Linux SWAP (This can be done on any Linux PC). So, I am wondering what it is about your sda6 partition that is causing all of the grief you have had. The system is seeing something or finding something that crippling your objective(s).

And, thanks for openly explaining, as you have, thru this experience.

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stemsee

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug 2015, 14:26    Post subject:  

With the lates LH I experienced similar problems, I probably handled it better though with my psychic intuition (I seem know what the computer is thinking, and I seem to know what the software is trying to do .... Smile) Anyway after about 4 attempts I somehow found the magic combination and booted to desktop. There is definitely something amiss!

But rather nice once it gets going.
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 774
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug 2015, 14:44    Post subject: LiveCD and USBflash boot and save issues with LH64  

gcmartin wrote:
"Of all the PUP distros LH64 is the ONLY distro that has gotten ALL of my 64bit PC's peripherals CORRECT:....


Still not sure if we're talking about the same iso. See below

gcmartin wrote:
First, since every 64bit PCs come from their vendors with writable DVDs, I have never used CDs since except for car's audio needs. This, for me, is especially true since the CD disc cost and the DVD cost are the same.


Well, I've never run into a DVD burner yet that wouldn't read a CD, but CD burners or players definitely won't read a DVD. And while Writeable DVDs may be no more costly than CD-Rs, I prefer Rewritables, and DVD-RWs are getting hard to find up here. I happen to have some CR-RWs left, and prefer to use them. But then I didn't expect to have to use it more than once for each distro - to test it and install to usbflash.

gcmartin wrote:
In fact, FATDOG, which is what the LH64s have as a base, specifically states that CDs are NOT supported. Their clarity is that it is not a tested disc media and therefore they don't support .... even thought they mention it "might" work.


From the web page Lighthouse 64 Boot Options:

Quote:
...To obtain a boot prompt from the LiveCD/DVD, press <Esc> from the boot menu with the dark blue background.


gcmartin wrote:
And, further, I seem to remember somewhere here in LH or in FD it is maintained or recommended to use multi-session burning of the ISO.


I've read warnings that a multi-session burn is less reliable for universal compatibility and that one should finalize unless there is some particular need to burn multi-session

...
gcmartin wrote:
Next, assuming you have a Mariner distro, that distro will consume ALL space that a CDROM provides, thus, there will be no room left to save your session file(s) as you progress. And, I understand you burned the CD, finalized. So, I understand why the system may not be offering it, as well, for session saves.


The documentation specifically says that you can save to any available media (usb, hdd, or writeable CD/DVD) when booting from the "LiveCD/DVD", and this is confirmed by the save options offered when shutting down. I had no wish to save to either CD or DVD because of the slowness of access. It takes seconds to write 1GB of sfs files to RAM from the hdd on my system. I takes 4+ minutes to copy it from the burner.


...

gcmartin wrote:
... enter this command:
Code:
fixmenus
Then return to your desktop,


will try this after I post this and let you know the result. Had already tried restarting X, and rebooting.

gcmartin wrote:
...Are you running Just-Lighthouse? OR are you running LH64 as these are similar but different? Reason for asking: The display problem, as you describe, is one I have had with JLH, but not with LH. And, in JLH, it has required a trial and error effort to resolve, too. Once I have it accurate setup, it remains properly set across sesion-saves and reboots.


I was running the Lighthouse64-6.02-B2_Mariner.iso,

and I must say, I find the array of versions very confusing. I don't understand the relationship between JLH and LH, or between the different varieties of LH. There's even reference to a version 6.03, which I can't locate at all...Am I using the one you recommend? If so, there's definitely an issue with its implementation of xorgwizard. I've never ever seen it malfunction so badly.

gcmartin wrote:
Lastly, I have not, do not, nor advise anyone to use a SWAP file in any filesystem. I have found it best to create a partition whose size is at least the size of one's PC RAM and to format that partition as Linux SWAP (This can be done on any Linux PC). So, I am wondering what it is about your sda6 partition that is causing all of the grief you have had. The system is seeing something or finding something that crippling your objective(s).


As I mentioned in my last post, this problem disappeared entirely when I installed Mariner to USB using Rufus instead of the LH64 flash installer. The issue is apparently caused by some code corruption in the native installer.

However, I do wonder whether there's any need to dedicate 16GB of disk space to linux swap when I have 16GB of RAM. What circumstances would require it?

But since finally getting LH64 working, so far, on my PC, the shortage of pets and slackware packages suggests it won't be an adequately flexible distro for me. I'll know better when I've tried your fixmenus command, but the Slackware repositories are extremely impoverished and outdated for my needs. Something I anticipated, but wanted to check for myself...

It's also extremely frustrating to download a whole raft of files, install, and then find that the package is missing an essential library, with no hint as to how to obtain or install it. Ironically, the manager suggests trimming the download, something I didn't do, precisely for fear of trimming something essential.

It seems to me that a packet manager should make sure that all the dependencies required are either already installed or available for download before downloading the incomplete package and installing it.
I'm on a metered internet connection, so it's not just of time, but a waste of money to download incomplete, non-functional apps.

Another essential that I find missing in LH64, which might seem a small thing to some, is the lack of an icon to indicate that the firewall is active. In fact, in LH64, there seems to be no quick way (maybe NO way) to determine that the firewall is up and running.

gcmartin wrote:
And, thanks for openly explaining, as you have, thru this experience.


Thanks for your interest and help.

I may never obtain any benefit from this frustrating and time consuming experiment, but maybe others may be spared it by reading these posts.

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 774
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug 2015, 16:50    Post subject: LH64 installation without desktop icons or menus  

Have gone back to my newly installed LLH64-6.02-B2_Mariner to investigate further the problem of downloaded and installed slackware apps that don't show in the menus or via desktop icons.

(NB: some installations DO appear, Skype is one.)

There are a number of these, but I limited myself to checking three:

rawtherapee - a RAW file viewer/editor
clamAV - a virus checker

ufraw - a RAW file editor plugin for GIMP

First I rechecked the dependencies, and as before, the first two were shown as not missing any, ufraw, missing a lib

There's no sign of any of the three in the menus. The RAW editors should appear under the Graphics menu, which has few entries.

I tried the terminal command suggested by gcmartin:

Code:
fixmenus


and it was accepted. But I saw no change in the menus or desktop icons.

I then tried running them from the terminal by typing in the name. This worked for the raw viewers. Rawtheraphy loaded, but proved extremely awkward and slow to load files.

With Ufraw, a message about the missing file appeared, saying it prevented the program from functioning.

I wasn't able to get any sign of life out of clamAV.

I then tried to find the missing lib file for ufraw, and eventually found a deb file spiced with a stern reprimand for not using synaptic or another deb packet installer. I tried letting petget handle it, but that got me nowhere.

I also downloaded the instructions for installing it manually, which the warning above had strictly advised against, suggesting the logical way to install the entire package was to go to the author's website using synaptic (not petget).

The instructions say the the 1MB file is missing from four different locations:

/usr/bin/nikon-curve
/usr/bin/ufraw
/usr/bin//ufraw/batch
usr/lib64/gimp/2.0/plug-ins/ufraw-gimp

I tried to set up my printer so I could print this out, but the "find printer driver" tab reported "URL not found". So I had to copy it by hand.

The file I downloaded is called:

libexiv2-120.23-1_ia64.deb

LH64 package manager described it only as:

libexiv2.so.12

There was no mention of slackware on the download page. So I don't know whether it's even the right lib file. and so haven't tried to install it manually.

Too much effort for very little progress.

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