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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
puppy barebones + SFS files
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Kaiser_Chicken

Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun 24 May 2015, 22:12    Post subject:  puppy barebones + SFS files
Subject description: use barebones puppy with software managed as additional sfs files
 

Hey, im a computer science kid in NZ, although we had linux there I stuck with XP and visual studio because it worked. Writing drivers for web cams isnt my thing but usability is. Much of the issues with linux for me have been addressed by puppy, it installs on most everything and the automated pet+dependencies works a treat.

But, I dont want to spend a lifetime installing pets one by one to try them out, nor do I want to download a ton of distros to get there.

I have tried ripping the .sfs out of other distros and loading into the exting unit I have (tahrpup-6.0.2 and slacko 64 bit) besides the different kernels and 32-64 bit issues this seems to work.

( many hands spoil the broth, another pet *hate of linux for me,its to widely distrobuted)

This led me to the idea that puppy could be downloaded asa "barebones" install, with say "multimedia" "buisness" "audio" .sfs files that contain many of the pets available, single install of software via pets is the third tier install.

just an idea, even uninstalling builtin packages back to barebones is too much of an issue for me. I just want to get on with it.

good idea?
lets know.

also if anyone has a stripped back slacko64 install, can I have a link please..

thanks for the OS, loving it, my daily use acer d255 chugged on win7 and even XP (after I got the ahci drivers sorted), the batteries even last an hour or more longer now.
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1866
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Sun 24 May 2015, 22:29    Post subject:  

Not stripped. But close to what I am understanding you are asking about.

http://lazy-puppy.weebly.com/

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Kaiser_Chicken

Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun 24 May 2015, 22:43    Post subject: trim the fat
Subject description: reduce bandwidth, trim the fat prior tp d_load
 

While im online, another idea was regarding to the mirrors and trim the fat options, surely rather than me having to test repositories (200OK) and select mirrors, the pet installer could actually do this for me.

imagine a pet installer that could spider the repositories, by the time I have my finger on the pad, found the button and clicked, installer would have done thisalready.

like ways "trim the fat" should be an option prior to download, why bring data just to throw it away at my end?

you should see savings in bandwidth as a result.

Im probably in the wrong forum, apologies as im a new user, feel free to redirect..

Kaiser.
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nic007

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 1113

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2015, 04:10    Post subject:  

There are utilities available which can convert pet files to sfs's so you don't have to install anything.
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Kaiser_Chicken

Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2015, 06:34    Post subject:  

Will have to look that up but its not really what im after.

Im suggesting a different way to manage puppy,

even rolling pets into an sfs, I still have to get the pets and then roll them also there are builtins that I dont want..Ideally its already done for me..

Honestly I dont need the hassle, too much to do as it is.

Im looking for a strip down puppy install with single download "superset" sfs's

like the devx.sfs, say a multimediax.sfs browserx.sfs audiox.sfs easily available.

No custom builds, no running issues as they are maintained by the group.

I can see a sfs tool where you can choose what applications are installed via a checkbox list, just as startup applications are,

Using the browserx exmple, it would contain firefox, seamonkey palemoon chrome? etc but I could chose that only firefox is loaded at startup from the browserx.sfs file.

I have not explored woof, but its along those lines, just easier to manage.

Currently I have a few save files going, the intent is there will be internet, dev, media etc available like desktops via those files.

Would be great to shift and change toolsets at will during runtime, which is probably possible now, although it is noted that hotswap sfs can differ from startup sfs..

Partially this is due to having largeish usb drives (.sfs storage) but limited resources (ram) at runtime.

Lean is mean.

hope you get the drift.

regards
Richard.

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nic007

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 1113

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2015, 08:11    Post subject:  

My experience of Puppy (and after doing countless remasters) is that it's not really worthwhile to strip-out any of the built-in packages as the distribution is lean as it is. I do however use SFS's for extras/applications I want to add instead of installing pets. BTW, it's also possible to combine differrent SFS/pet files into one big SFS file if you want to and to use as an add-on to the base system OR load all the extra SFS files you want to use with the base system and do a remaster (this will give you a new base SFS with all your extra applications included). There is no "superset" of SFS's and it makes sense just to download and add those that you really want to use. You can choose which SFS files you want to load at start-up too, that's not a problem. I normally do not use save files but when I do they are extremely small just for the purpose of saving the odd personal setting.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 510
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2015, 10:32    Post subject:  

Kaiser_Chicken, you really, REALLY should look into the link that rokytnji supplied for you!

BTW; both I and Rainer - the maker of LazyPuppy - are foreigners, which means we tend to twist the language to our needs rather than using it correctly at all times! The descriptions may be a little clumsy, but you should dive into Lazy, and also browse the forum thread which is linked to on the front page. It will tell you about some of the limitations of the project, no need to reinvent the wheel. Very Happy

Some of the interesting points in Lazy: The preferred method of running Lazy is off a USB memorystick. There is no savefile. All personal settings and configs are saved in a separate .sfs. You cannot run Lazy from a live CD as I do, because you cannot add an .sfs into a readonly boot area, which is one of the limitations I mentioned. Another factor that can be a problem is that relative links don't work across file systems, and hard links are shit!

I have toyed around with an idea to follow more or less the same setup as in Lazy, and much like you envision, but I would prefer to store all the .sfs files in a separate non-booting session on a multisession DVD. That way I will not be depending on a working net connection to load the programs I need. I could boot a minimalistic Puppy, but still have a storage wih .sfs files on hand, which can be added to or upgraded when necessary. Programs can also be installed from a .pet kept in the same (or separate) storage session, that is a lightning fast process when Puppy is run from RAM. I never store OS-related files on a HDD, I use that for file storage only.

tallboy

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 1074
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2015, 14:55    Post subject: LazyPuppy & Lassie  

Hi,

After reading your initial post, I was going to suggest LazyPuppy. Tallboy beat me to it. You'll find the thread here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=591219&sid=a67c0d02ce57f004f1ab5b1400b3471f#591219. IIRC, it's based on Lupu.
Later, based on precise, Rainer published Lassie which, like Lazy, is constructed to provide a core/base operating system, with which SFS applications handled as RoxApps provide user functionality. You'll find it here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=92311. IIRC, Lassie had a problem creating a SaveFile.
Recently, there have been a couple of Pups having a similar problem and some posts regarding how to manually create SaveFiles. You can probably find those post using the "Wellminded" search: http://wellminded.net63.net/

You'll find links on both the LazyPuppy and Lassie threads to their repos. Rainer's output of applications was phenomenal. The apps he created for LazyPuppy can be used in Lupu, and often in Lassie and precise. Those he created for Lassie can be used in precise.

Both threads are well worth reading.

A wellminded search will also turn up, I believe, a barebones precisepup. But, as Tallboy suggested, barebones pups don't often provide an advantage: (1) if you are seriously low on RAM; or (2) your objective is to remaster using different windows and/or file managers. If you're just annoyed by byzantine menus filed with applications you don't want, just open desktop file in /usr/share/applications in a text editor and change the Category argument by adding the letter "z" to the names of the specified categories. The applications won't appear on the menu; but if you change you're mind, just re-edit to delete the "z's".

I do recommend before engaging in any attempt to modify Pups that, if you haven't already done so, read jpep's instructions on how to remove automatic pupsave, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=81911 and if working with older Pups, install shinobar's latest PupSaveConfig. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=457081#457081

mikesLr
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Kaiser_Chicken

Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2015, 18:15    Post subject:  

Awesome, I missed the lazy puppy link but will look into it today, sounds like what im after.

thanks..
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 510
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2015, 19:57    Post subject:  

mikeslr kindly gave me the credit for something that actually was pointed out by nic007. Thank you! Laughing

Kaiser_Chicken, here is another very relevant link to a thread describing and discussing the very core of .sfs handling in Lazy, or other puppys:

shinobar's sfs_load-2.3 on-the-fly
and the evolution into
RSH's SFS P.L.U.S. 2.0.5

tallboy

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nic007

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 1113

PostPosted: Tue 26 May 2015, 02:43    Post subject:  

Quote:
You cannot run Lazy from a live CD as I do, because you cannot add an .sfs into a readonly boot area, which is one of the limitations I mentioned.


Don't know about Lazy but I think this MAY be possible by virtue of installing sfs_load and using a script or two to load/unload your sfs's quickly (you will have to stipulate the correct paths). You will of course have to do a remaster to get sfs-load, your sfs's and the scripts on a new CD (I wonder if you can just install it to a running multi-session CD/DVD?) Needs exploring.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 510
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 26 May 2015, 18:38    Post subject:  

One of the great advantages with a live multisession disc, is that you can install anything as in a normal running puppy, but it is temporary loaded into RAM with all the other stuff. If you like what you see, you simply store it, either by klicking the Save button during the run, or saving the session when shutting down. If you don't like it, don't Save, and it disappears at shutdown. Very Happy
Regarding you suggestion: It is certainly an area that need to be looked into. I remember an old thread on the subject of loading ones different configs and personal setup according to which machine is being used to run the puppy, automatic recognition of for example home and office machines. There were questions on how to load those files during the boot process.

But then again, wouldn't a boot process that could be manipulated raise some serious questions about security?

tallboy

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nic007

Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 1113

PostPosted: Wed 27 May 2015, 02:37    Post subject:  

tallboy, I'm not working with CD/DVD's so can't test it. I have however before been able to load extra SFS's during bootup whilst running the system in RAM (ie, not running with a savefile). The extra SFS's were on a HDD partition though. I placed my sfs_load script/s in one of the startup scripts. If running eveything in RAM, can't see how security can be breached.
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