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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb 2015, 20:14    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
bigpup wrote:
Quote:
Could also change the wording of the failure warning then to "explain" the reason of the space limitation to the user better, but I think is too many details that very few care about.
Would you think that it worths the trouble?

Could you provide a example of the warning you are talking about?

Actually I think that the current warning (pic) is pretty clear, but I'm open for suggestions

That was the message I thought you were talking about.
Seems clear to me.

Suggestion:

Please make more free storage space in your savefile by using "resize personal storage file" or delete some files in it. Could try to reduce the number of packages you are trying to install.

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MochiMoppel


Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 2084
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb 2015, 20:52    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
MochiMoppel wrote:
Please don't "fix" what ain't broke (yet)

Changing is not necessarily fixing. Besides I'm sure that everything can be recoded much different/better.
What I would really like to know if this breaks something. Does it?
It breaks your own target concept ("to be able to install or remove multiple packages simultaneously and without further user intervention"...your words, my emphasis). I understand that one of your goals was to reduce the number of pesky dialogs. Now you add new ones. You are going backwards.

It breaks the process flow. It can halt a script where it shouldn't. It makes unattended installation scripts impossible and adds no value. Please remember that the installation routine you changed is not exclusively used by ppm but also by other scripts, therefore kindly consider to remove the dialog and revert to the simple echo message again. Thank you.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb 2015, 21:07    Post subject:  

Well this does not seem to be a error message that works for all situations.

Tahrpup 6.0.2
Full install
No save file or save folder being used.

PPM V1.9.5
In configure->options
I selected to use a very small partition, with little free space, as the location to download to.
There is more than enough free space for the install to the Tahrpup full install partition, but not in the download location.

The error message only talks about a save file I am not using one.

This is the error message I got.
capture14041.png
 Description   
 Filesize   112.16 KB
 Viewed   385 Time(s)

capture14041.png


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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb 2015, 23:26    Post subject:  

MochiMoppel wrote:
mavrothal wrote:
MochiMoppel wrote:
Please don't "fix" what ain't broke (yet)

Changing is not necessarily fixing. Besides I'm sure that everything can be recoded much different/better.
What I would really like to know if this breaks something. Does it?
It breaks your own target concept ("to be able to install or remove multiple packages simultaneously and without further user intervention"...your words, my emphasis). I understand that one of your goals was to reduce the number of pesky dialogs. Now you add new ones. You are going backwards.

It breaks the process flow. It can halt a script where it shouldn't. It makes unattended installation scripts impossible and adds no value. Please remember that the installation routine you changed is not exclusively used by ppm but also by other scripts, therefore kindly consider to remove the dialog and revert to the simple echo message again. Thank you.


Maybe I'm missing something but your suggested change regards running from console ([! $DISPLAY ]) and is done to be consistent with the other dialog-based info.
How can you do multiple package installation and unattended multiple installs from console and have this change break the flow? Confused

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb 2015, 23:46    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:

I selected to use a very small partition, with little free space, as the location to download to.
There is more than enough free space for the install to the Tahrpup full install partition, but not in the download location.

The error message only talks about a save file I am not using one.

Yep. The error messaging does not have a provision for such a scenario.
I will not have the chance to test in the next day or two, so if you still have the setup can you expand the attached, make it executable and drop it in /usr/local/petget to check if messaging covers this scenario better?
If you do please make sure that messaging in the other cases (when not enough to only install, only download, or install and download in the same partition) is also sensible.
Thanks
installmodes.sh.gz
Description 
gz

 Download 
Filename  installmodes.sh.gz 
Filesize  4.41 KB 
Downloaded  217 Time(s) 

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MochiMoppel


Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 2084
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 01:24    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something but your suggested change regards running from console ([! $DISPLAY ]) and is done to be consistent with the other dialog-based info.
It was your change, not mine, and maybe we can make progress here if you could explain what urged you to make that change. To me it was OK before. Why did you make the change? It is not about the information in the message, it's about how this information is presented and if this information needs user interaction or not. There is no decision to make by the user, so let the show go on and don't put stumbling blocks in the way. Anything the script needs to inform the user of can be echoed to the text terminal, that's what the terminal is made for. This is basic stuff, and again: running "without further user intervention" was one of your goals, or did I get this wrong?
Quote:
How can you do multiple package installation and unattended multiple installs from console and have this change break the flow?
*sigh* By having a package in my installation list that is already installed ....
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 07:43    Post subject:  

MochiMoppel, I'm afraid that communication is really difficult at this point.
I'm sure you can change PPM to suit your needs.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 15:04    Post subject:  

Inserted installmodes.sh

bigpup wrote:

Tahrpup 6.0.2
Full install
No save file or save folder being used.

PPM V1.9.5
In configure->options
I selected to use a very small partition, with little free space, as the location to download to.
There is more than enough free space for the install to the Tahrpup full install partition, but not in the download location.

Choosing to auto install

Getting better as a message, but it still is confusing.
Notice what the Ziggy GUI shows for information.

Suggestion:
Change the message to one that covers all possibilities:

There is not enough space to save or install the packages (including dependencies) in the save or install location. Please make more free space available.
Adjustment may be needed in one or both locations.
If using savefile. Adjust by using "resize personal storage file" or delete some files in it. Could try to reduce the number of packages trying to install or save.

This is the error message I got now.
capture9826.png
 Description   
 Filesize   108.71 KB
 Viewed   288 Time(s)

capture9826.png


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Last edited by bigpup on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 15:55; edited 8 times in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 15:26    Post subject:  

Inserted installmodes.sh


Quote:
bigpup wrote:

Tahrpup 6.0.2
Full install
No save file or save folder being used.

PPM V1.9.5
In configure->options
I selected to use a very small partition, with little free space, as the location to download to.
There is more than enough free space for the install to the Tahrpup full install partition, but not in the download location.


If I choose to download packages (no install) or download all. I get only this in the Ziggy GUI.
No error pop-up message.
capture10604.png
 Description   
 Filesize   120.06 KB
 Viewed   265 Time(s)

capture10604.png


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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 17:08    Post subject:  

Precise 5.7.1
Frugal with a save file.

PPM V1.9.5

Inserted installmodes.sh

PPM config setup to save in /root
Save and install will all be in save file.

Auto install option I get this for error.
image1.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   67.16 KB
 Viewed   239 Time(s)

image1.jpg


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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 18:06    Post subject:  

Tahrpup 6.0.2
Frugal with a save file.
Save file very small. Very little free space.

PPM V1.9.5

Inserted installmodes.sh

PPM config setup to save in /root
Save and install will all be in save file.

Select option to download packages (no install)

Gets this only. No error message.
capture11808.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   67.56 KB
 Viewed   233 Time(s)

capture11808.jpg


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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 18:13    Post subject:  

Tahrpup 6.0.2
Frugal with a save file.
Save file very small. Very little free space.

PPM V1.9.5

Inserted installmodes.sh

PPM config setup to save in /root
Save and install will all be in save file.

Choose option to download all (packages and dependencies)

I get this error message and GUI info.
capture28054.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   60.53 KB
 Viewed   239 Time(s)

capture28054.jpg


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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Sun 22 Feb 2015, 01:00    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:

Suggestion:
Change the message to one that covers all possibilities:

There is not enough space to save or install the packages (including dependencies) in the save or install location. Please make more free space available.
Adjustment may be needed in one or both locations.
If using savefile. Adjust by using "resize personal storage file" or delete some files in it. Could try to reduce the number of packages trying to install or save.

This is the error message I got now.

Thanks for testing.
I think the other messages are reasonable.
However, I think that this generic change may be still confusing.
What about if in this specific case where the savefile has space but the download folder not, is changed to the one bellow.
Space2.png
 Description   
 Filesize   20.2 KB
 Viewed   213 Time(s)

Space2.png


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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 22 Feb 2015, 03:10    Post subject:  

That looks like a good message to see.

Gives the person a good idea what they need to do to correct the problem. Very Happy

I was trying to keep the message short with my suggestion.

The thing that still bothers me about all the error messages. They are talking about a save file as if that is what you probably are using and changing it will correct the problem.

The above message does help. It identifies the specific problem and states what the specific download save location is.
However, the first part talks about installing to a save file.
I was using a full install (NO SAVE FILE)

You could be using:
Full install
save file
save folder (directory)
partition
Directory you made
/root
any directory in the Puppy file system
A sub, sub, sub directory, etc.....
A USB drive partition
A USB drive directory
etc....

I was just thinking that statements like:
Download location
Install location
Save location

Would cover all conditions ,but still identify the main problem.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Sun 22 Feb 2015, 06:46    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:

The thing that still bothers me about all the error messages. They are talking about a save file as if that is what you probably are using and changing it will correct the problem.


OK then what about these 3 messages that should cover everything and are generic enough when it comes to savemode?

Attached is also the relevant installmodes.sh script
installmodes.sh.gz
Description 
gz

 Download 
Filename  installmodes.sh.gz 
Filesize  4.51 KB 
Downloaded  191 Time(s) 
Smsg1.png
 Description   
 Filesize   23 KB
 Viewed   175 Time(s)

Smsg1.png

Smsg2.png
 Description   
 Filesize   24.05 KB
 Viewed   175 Time(s)

Smsg2.png

Smsg3.png
 Description   
 Filesize   24.81 KB
 Viewed   175 Time(s)

Smsg3.png


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