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PPM2
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11329

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb 2015, 06:59    Post subject:  

ploppy maybe...well saw it straight away but tried to ignore it as its sort of a closed discussion...or was until now...

peppy .... the zesty way to add software.

mike
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb 2015, 07:03    Post subject:  

OK...
Let's get back to PPM2 now.
Any other issues with 1.9.5?

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11329

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb 2015, 07:09    Post subject:  

Almost...the cellphone analogy does not quite work...mobile phones became much smaller and lighter and easier to use.

Software has become bigger and bloated and over complicated.

ok all done.. Smile

Mike
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stemsee

Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 2572
Location: In The Way

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb 2015, 10:46    Post subject:  

spot the typo in pinstall.sh

Code:
#!/bin/sh
rm -f /usr/local/peteget/ui_Ziggy
echo Ziggy > /var/local/petget/ui_choice
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb 2015, 10:58    Post subject:  

stemsee wrote:
spot the typo in pinstall.sh

Code:
#!/bin/sh
rm -f /usr/local/peteget/ui_Ziggy
echo Ziggy > /var/local/petget/ui_choice

Thanks.
Re-uploaded 1.9.5 at download # 100. (downloaders 99 and 100, pls reinstall)

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13963
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb 2015, 20:46    Post subject:  

Thanks for the quick fix. Very Happy

Version 1.9.5

Seems to have fixed the problems I reported.
Trying to figure out how to make something give me an error, to see if it will still lockup.
So far no errors.

I got a question about something in PPM.
Under package types
The drop-down selection of what to show.

Does anyone really understand all of these options?

"Any Type", "GUI apps only", and "Any non-GUI type" are the only ones that make any sense to me.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Sat 14 Feb 2015, 01:24    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
I got a question about something in PPM.
Under package types
The drop-down selection of what to show.

Does anyone really understand all of these options?

Actually, these are valuable if keeping your puppy trim and fit is important to you as these are general (and large) GUI infrastructures. Puppy already has gtk2, so apps in this category are not going to pull in a lot of dependencies.
Or you may already have qt4 or 5 (say for skype), then if you have an option to get the gtk3 or the qt5 version of an app (say a music player) would be "cheaper" to go with the qt.

In a customary puppy fashion PPM has many options but (hopefully) sensible defaults, that should allow most people to ignore them Wink

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13963
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb 2015, 17:33    Post subject:  

mavrothal thanks for the information.
That does help to understand.

I will keep this information in mind for update to the PPM help.

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MochiMoppel


Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 2082
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb 2015, 22:29    Post subject:  

Please don't "fix" what ain't broke (yet)

Used to be
Code:
if [ ! $DISPLAY ];then
  echo "$(gettext 'Sorry, this package is already installed. Aborting.')"

Now we have
Code:
 if [ ! $DISPLAY ];then
  dialog --msgbox "$(gettext 'Sorry, this package is already installed. Aborting.')" 0 0

There was nothing wrong with a good old echoed error message in a text terminal. Now the user has to manually interact, and since this check doesn't observe the newly introduced /tmp/install_quietly flag this can be a show stopper with multiple installs.

The same goes for your other new check. You know what I'm talking about...
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13963
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 17 Feb 2015, 01:42    Post subject:  

V1.9.5

Not sure if this is a real problem, but I will show it to you anyway.

Selected a program from a Ubuntu repository to download and install.

I did it two ways.
Auto install.
Step by step install.

Notice the difference in what they both say for the size of the total required download. (program package and dependencies).

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Thu 19 Feb 2015, 01:55    Post subject:  

MochiMoppel wrote:
Please don't "fix" what ain't broke (yet)

Changing is not necessarily fixing. Besides I'm sure that everything can be recoded much different/better.
What I would really like to know if this breaks something. Does it?

bigpup wrote:
Notice the difference in what they both say for the size of the total required download. (program package and dependencies).

Yes that is intentional because the 2 report different things!( Shocked ) PPM reports the size that the packages will take after the installation is finished. PPM2 reports the overall space needed to install the packages considering also the space you need for the downloading and expanding the package and guesstimating it 50% of the "installed". In contrast PPM just adds a small fixed overhead for the download.
This way also does not need another value if you choose to save the packages too. Wink
Is a bit of overkill and could use a better wording (what single word could be used?) but since you may do "huge" installations this way, I think is better to be safe than sorry and make sure that enough space is available.
(PPM classic is likely to fail if you try to install a big package say firefox, that "just fits" in the available space)

BTW if you just choose to download the packages PPM2 will give you a different number, about half of what PPM classic reports, guesstimating again the download size since unfortunately the package databases do not have the compressed/download package size, and trying to get this from the severs during selection would make the process even slower.
Also if you download only of save the packages to a different directory other than /root the space of this device is also calculated and checked but is not reported separately.

Caveat: Space requirements reporting in PPM2 is indicative and overestimated intentionally so installation/download will never fail on space limitations and result in a broken system.

Could be changed to report correctly, and "silently" require more space, but then will be cases that will fail while the space "appears" sufficient.
Could also change the wording of the failure warning then to "explain" the reason of the space limitation to the user better, but I think is too many details that very few care about.
Would you think that it worths the trouble?

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Last edited by mavrothal on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 07:55; edited 1 time in total
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Thu 19 Feb 2015, 05:27    Post subject:  

Risking making things unnecessary complicated and maybe even confusing, here is a pet that has a revised size reporting in the status bar.
Will report "installed" size instead of required for installation (although still check that "required" is available and exit if not)
Will also report download size if "save installed packages" is selected.
Will also report available space in the other device if you choose to save the packages outside the unionfs (say in /mnt/home)
Finally if you save the packages outside the union will require ie check if it is indeed available, only the installed size and not the installed plus the download size.
A lot of complexity for little value I believe, but let's try it at least.

WARNING: This pet has no pinstall/puninstall scripts. If you remove it will break the size check function of PPM2.
So you must remove and reinstall ppm_auto-1.9.5.pet to go back to where you started.

Edit: v4 reports better when you only download in a user defined folder, and in the step-by-step mode, and indicates if downloading, installing or both
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PPM_reporting-4.pet
Description  Do NOT install if you are not running PPM2 v1.9.5
pet

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13963
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb 2015, 02:13    Post subject:  

Quote:
Space requirements reporting in PPM2 is indicative and overestimated intentionally so installation/download will never fail on space limitations and result in a broken system.

If it does nothing more than this, it would be a big improvement to PPM.
Do not know how many times, I have seen people run into problems, with package installs, that used up all the available space and then some. Shocked Twisted Evil Evil or Very Mad

Quote:
Risking making things unnecessary complicated and maybe even confusing, here is a pet that has a revised size reporting in the status bar.
Will report "installed" size instead of required for installation (although still check that "required" is available and exit if not)
Will also report download size if "save installed packages" is selected.
Will also report available space in the other device if you choose to save the packages outside the unionfs (say in /mnt/home)
Finally if you save the packages outside the union will require ie check if it is indeed available, only the installed size and not the installed plus the download size.
A lot of complexity for little value I believe, but let's try it at least.

A nice feature for people who understand what it is telling them.
If it does not break something or make for confusion.
Sure, leave it in. Idea

Complexity can be a problem or maybe not. Idea
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smart-mouse (1).jpg


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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13963
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb 2015, 02:39    Post subject:  

The example for:
install and save package may be a little confusing.

The part about available space 53+7510MB

Hopefully the person will remember he is installing to one location and saving to a different location.

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Puppus Dogfellow


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1669
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb 2015, 02:55    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
Space requirements reporting in PPM2 is indicative and overestimated intentionally so installation/download will never fail on space limitations and result in a broken system.

If it does nothing more than this, it would be a big improvement to PPM.
Do not know how many times, I have seen people run into problems, with package installs, that used up all the available space and then some.
Shocked Twisted Evil Evil or Very Mad

Quote:
Risking making things unnecessary complicated and maybe even confusing, here is a pet that has a revised size reporting in the status bar.
Will report "installed" size instead of required for installation (although still check that "required" is available and exit if not)
Will also report download size if "save installed packages" is selected.
Will also report available space in the other device if you choose to save the packages outside the unionfs (say in /mnt/home)
Finally if you save the packages outside the union will require ie check if it is indeed available, only the installed size and not the installed plus the download size.
A lot of complexity for little value I believe, but let's try it at least.

A nice feature for people who understand what it is telling them.
If it does not break something or make for confusion.
Sure, leave it in. Idea

Complexity can be a problem or maybe not. Idea



after the update from 1.9.2 to 1.9.5 i started getting the exiting, insufficient space message. there are over 70 gig available to that save folder on that partition--is there a way to lie to the machine to tell it the truth, or, if not, is there a way to stop it from making the space check?--just as a hack for future reference--i'm not suggesting you make this a change to the ppm. thanks in advance.

further information: i upgraded to 1.9.5, changed the preferences (download folder, download everything, download even if package already exists/is installed), and the next run gave the error message. haven't been able to use the ppm since. this is in precise 572 as a save folder. different machine, 571 as a frugal, same changes produced no problems (under 2 gig left in save file.) it was a download of mixxx 110--i was trying to make an sfs.
Confused

Last edited by Puppus Dogfellow on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 03:35; edited 1 time in total
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