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 Forum index » House Training » HOWTO ( Solutions )
How to stop whining about wine
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 839
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Thu 11 Dec 2014, 22:49    Post_subject:  How to stop whining about wine
Sub_title: A pretty complete tutorial
 

The following was started in response to a question asked by Johnmeehand, who at that time was new to Linux in general, and Puppy Linux in particular. So it is addressed to him. But as I've tried to present a complete overview. It will hopefully help future neophytes trying to obtain a handle on how to use XP programs in Puppy Linux.

Hi johnmeehan,

As Fossil has suggested, before you try to run Windows Programs under Wine, consider whether you have to. Several years ago it was different. But by today you can find some Linux Application which can accomplish everything you could using a program in Windows, often better; with the exception of specialized business programs which probably won't run under wine anyway. In looking for a Linux Application as a substitute for a Windows Program, be more concerned with the category of activity --i.e., Video Editor, Web-Browser-- than a specific name.
And as nic007 suggested, if you must run a windows program, look for the portable version because, as Fossil pointed out, many Windows programs often have dependencies. The builders of Portable Programs include them in the build.
But, if you still feel the need to run a Windows Program, this is what I would do.

This first two steps may seem counter-productive, but will save you a lot of time in the future.
They involve uninstalling the version of wine you found via Puppy Package Manager, PPM, and substituting it with Shinobar's Portable Wine. There are several reasons for doing this: it will make your life easier; it will provide two locations from which many of your XP programs can easily be accessed; and it will not install wine into your SaveFile. Your SaveFile has limited space which can quickly be filled up, especially by programs running under wine and all the data files they customarily would store on Windows C: Drive, an entire Drive or Large Partition. If you're new to Puppy, you may not yet know that many applications, especially sizable ones, are available as Squash Files, known as SFSes. These are somewhat like Portable XP programs. They do not get installed to your SaveFile, can be placed anywhere on your hard-drive, but are best used by placing them on your Home Partition. Your Home Partition is the one whose icon on your desktop always shows an X in its top-right corner. Clicking that icon will display its contents. It can also be reached by opening Rox, and using the up-arrow and clicking folders to follow this path: /root > / > mnt > home. Other file-managers, such as Thunar and pcmanfm, when opened will display a left-pane. You home partition will be named either Home or dev_save.
Keeping your SaveFile slim and healthy is important when using Puppy Linux. For a good discussion of techniques, read Shinorbar's thread: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=468769#468769
Another reason for preferring Portable Wine to an installed version is that once you set it up and install programs into it, you won't have to do that again if you change Puppy Versions or add another Puppy Version. The Wine-portable version I recommend can be used with any Pup published in the last 4 years. It also comes with a working version of WineTricks.
Winetricks is an easy way to install many common Windows programs –although they may not be the latest version, and not as good as recent Linux comparables-- and the dependencies some XP programs have. To use winetricks you'll have to open a Terminal/Console and type a command. The following page shows you how. http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks. Scroll down about half-way thru the page. However, using portable wine, you'll have to preface the command you will use with the argument wine.sh. So, having opened a terminal, where the Wine organization says to obtain corefonts and vcrun6 they would have you type:

sh winetricks corefonts vcrun6,

using Portable Wine you would type

wine.sh winetricks corefonts vcrun6.

Before proceeding further, may I make four other suggestions for anyone just getting started with Puppy Linux.
(a) Read the sticky posts which appear at the top of the Beginner's Help Subforum. Or at least scan them so you'll know what's there. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=2
(b) At least scan the categories of Software Applications discussed in the Additional Software Subforum. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=63 so you'll know what applications are available that a Creator of a Pup may not have included in his or her creation.
(c) Before posting a question, see if it's already been answered by typing some keywords into the Wellminded Search Box: http://wellminded.net63.net/
and
(d) until working with Puppy has become second nature, create a folder on your home partition into which you can place documents that might be helpful in the future. For example, if you think this post may be useful later on –the next time you have a question about wine-- do the following:
Click your Home Partition's desktop icon. Then Click an empty space. Select>New Directory, and give it a name such as my-notes. Now open your wordprocessor –probably at this point Abiword-- or for a short note your Text Editor, probably Geany. Switch back to your browser and highlight the text you want to copy. Just click and drag your mouse-cursor until that section is highlighted. Then right-click and select “copy”. Switch into your wordprocessor, right click and select “paste”. Save, giving it a memorable name after scrolling into your /mnt/home/my-notes folder.

On to working with wine:

1. Uninstall your current version of wine. First start Puppy Package Manager, PPM, Menu>Setup>Puppy Package Manager. Click uninstall at the top left. On the Window which opens, scroll down until you see the wine listing, then click it. Wait for the message that its been uninstalled. Then close PPM.
2. If you open Rox now to its Home location --you should see a ~ in the center of the top border, otherwise click the "House"-- and Left-click the "eye" you'll notice that the .wine --note the dot-- folder is still there, Right-click it and select delete. This step is optional. But it deletes files which are only just taking up space.
3. Now download Shinobar's Portable Wine. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=755297#755297. I suggest the wine-portable-1.6.2-2-p4.tar.gz version as it includes Wine-tricks.
"The Portable Wine can be placed anywhere on a HDD/USB storage mounted place under /mnt/home or under /mnt/sdb1, for example. The executable environment is created there by one click". It's easiest to work with later on if you've downloaded it to, or later move it to, /mnt/home.
4. Just click the tar.gz file and your archiver will offer to decompress it. Click Select All, then Click Extract. A new folder will be created on /mnt/home named Wine-Portable-1.6.2-2-p4. Again to make your life easier latter on, right-click this folder an select "rename" and delete the ending "-2-p4" leaving the name as Wine-Portable-1.6.2.

[You can now delete the tar.gz file, or create a folder on mnt/home with a name like PuppyStuff and drag/drop it into that folder. Then you won't have to download it again if you decide to start over. Actually, such folder is more useful for pets you may want to install in later Pups. SFSes I usually keep on mnt/home, outside any folder, so they'll be available to any Pup via the menu listing Setup > SFS-Load on the fly.]

5. Now left-click the folder and wine will be installed into it. After its finished installing, you'll find that right-clicking the folder provides many options. See accompanying Screen Shot. One you'll have to take is to Register the program. IIRC, you should also Configure Wine at this time. You'll also notice "Run Wine Program" at the top. Later, all the programs you've installed into Wine's False C: Drive will be available from that option.
Some may also show up on your start menu: Menu>wine>Programs. If you install an XP program via Menu>Utility>Wine Control Panel>Add/Remove Programs it should be there. But I often just scroll to a Program's setup.exe and click it. Later, I create a Menu listing for the program which places it in the same category as similar Linux Programs. For example, I have the Windows version of ShotCut, a pretty thorough Video Editor. It's accessed via Menu>Multimedia>shotcut.

Another of Portable Wine's handy options is "Open Drive C". Within it you'll find a folder named "Program Files". And within that you'll find folder's of all your "installed" Programs.
Clicking a programs executable will start it.

Some Portable XP programs resist being installed to Wine's C: Drive. One I think worth considering is ffdiaporama, a slide-show maker. I'll use it as an example of how to handle such programs. You can find a version here. http://framakey.org/Portables/FfDiaporamaPortable Click the icon which looks like a Floppy Disk, Download it to your Download Folder, or a temporary folder. Its a Zip file. Right-click it and Archiver will decompress it as it did the Wine-Portable tar.gz file. You should now see a folder named ffDiaporama. Click your /mnt/home Drive Icon to open a Rox Window to your Home Partition. Then drag and drop the ffDiaporama folder onto your Home Partition and Select "Move". You'll have to hunt for ffDiaporama's executable. It's actually in the folder named App/ffDiaporama.

As mentioned, this Program will not show up in Wine-Portable's "Run Wine Program". Nor on the Menu. You can, of course, start it opening Rox to its executable, and clicking it. But for convenience, you can also Drag and Drop the executable onto your desktop. To pretty it up, you can select or download an icon, right-click your desktop launcher, select "File ffdiaporama >Set Icon" and drag your icon onto it. While playing with your desktop launcher, you can also Right-click it, select Edit, and shorten its name, or give it any name you want.

Since, however, desktop icons are usually obscured by open programs, I take the following steps to add them to my Start Menu. By the way, if you take the time do this you can reward yourself with a merit badge and no longer consider yourself a Linux tender-foot. Smile

To create a menu entry, you'll need to one icon, and have to create two files. To make my life easier, I always place icons in /usr/share/pixmaps. So open one Rox window there. You open folders by clicking them, and move to a folder's "parent" by clicking the Up-Arrown on the toolbar. The Home icon on the toolbar will take you directly to your "home folder". Rox>Home>up-arrow to />Click usr folder, click share folder, click pixmaps folder*. For ffDiaporama, you'll find an icon in /mnt/home/ffdiaporama/clipart/ffdiaporama/. Select one, and drag/drop>copy it to /usr/share/pixmaps. Again, to make life easier, Right-click it and change its name to something easier, like ffdia.png.
* As I often want to get to either the /usr/share folder or the /usr/share/pixmaps folder, I "book-mark" them. Once you've entered a folder, click the bookmark icon on Rox's Toolbar to create a shortcut to that location. I also bookmark /mnt/home.

In Linux, executables are always located on what is known as "the path". These are usually in bin or sbin folders. But Puppies have one location on its path especially for your own executables. Open Rox to its Home position --if necessary click the Home icon on the Toolbar-- and you'll see a Folder named "my-applications". Within that folder is another named "bin". Open it. Now Right-click an empty space and select New Script, and give it a name; in this case ffDiaporama. Now right-click the ffDiaporama script and select open with your text editor, such as Geany. You'll already see the following line:

#!/bin/sh

This is Bash –Puppy's built in programming language-- and it's telling your operating system that you're going to give it a command. All you have to do now is write that command. It will go on the next line, and since your using portable wine, the command will start with “wine.sh” --without the quotes. That tells portable wine you want it to run an executable. Now all you have to do is tell it which one and you do that by typing in the full path to the executable.

So, continuing with the ffdiaporama program as the example, you would type in the location, ending up with a script which reads:


#!/bin/sh
wine.sh /mnt/home/ffDiaporama/App/ffDiaporama/ffDiaporama.exe

Click Save to save your new bash-script with its commands.

Remember that Shotcut program I installed into Wine-portable by clicking its executable rather than installing it via wine Taskmanager.
Well, my script for it in /root/my-applications/bin reads as follows:

#!/bin/sh
wine.sh /mnt/home/wine-portable-1.6.2-2/wine-data/drive_c/'Program Files'/Shotcut/shotcut.exe

After you've written the script, remember to click SAVE.

Now its time to see if it works. Just left-click the, in this case, the script named ffDiaporama and your program should open. If it doesn't, first check that your script is executable. Right-click the file and click properties. All the boxes under the word Exec should be checked. Next make sure that you've properly typed in the path to the executable, and that your punctuation is correct. Linux is case sensitive. It distinguishes between capital and small letters. It also sees spaces between words as a reason to stop looking. So, for example, where a folder uses two words, such as “Program Files” --without the double-quotes-- you have to tell it that there's only one name by enclosing the two words in single quotes, e.g. 'Program Files'.

Now its time to create the desktop file in order for your program to have a menu entry.

Open a Rox window to /usr/share/applications. Since you might want either program I've mentioned to appear on the Multimedia Submenu, look for an application which already appears there, for example, pupRadio.desktop. Right-click it, and select Open as Text. Before you screw things up badly, quickly Click File>SaveAs and give it the name you want, in this case ffDiaporama.

Your ffDiaporama.desktop file will then show the following arguments.

Encoding=UTF-8
Name=pupRadio/pupTelly streaming media
Icon=Animation.xpm
Comment=pupRadio/pupTelly streaming media
Exec=pupradio
Terminal=false
Type=Application
Categories=AudioVideo
GenericName=pupRadio

which obviously pertain to pupRadio and not ffDiaporama. So we'll overwrite them. My ffDiaporama arguments read:

Encoding=UTF-8
Name=ffDiaporama
Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/ffdia.png
Comment=Slideshow creator
Exec=/root/my-applications/bin/ffDiaporama
Terminal=false
Type=Application
Categories=AudioVideo;Multimedia;
GenericName=ffDiaporama

I've bolded the most important changes I made. You don't have to. Obviously, the name is the one you want to appear on the menu. The icon argument point to the ffdia.png I placed in /usr/share/pixmaps. And the Exec argument points to the ffDiaporama script I created in /root/my-applications/bin.
I also placed a semi-colon after AudioVideo, and added the argument Multimedia;.
Some File-managers, such as Openbox, require that category arguments end with a semi-colon. And sometimes its a good idea to specify the category rather than rely on Puppy to guess.

Now Save your changes. If all went well, clicking the ffDiaporama.desktop file should open the program. If not, open it again in your text editor and make certain that your arguments accurately point to the desired files.

You may have to restart X to see the listing on your menu. Sometimes a reboot is necessary. But before you do either, it may be to your advantage to create a pet which you can easily install –one click-- the next time you want your program to appear on the next Puppy you decided to work with. Your Windows Programs will survive your change to another Pup since whether you've placed them on /mnt/home or installed them within Wine-portable, they'll still be there. But you won't have menu entries.

Creating a pet in this situation is easy. Here's what you would do to create an ffdiaporama-menu.pet.

Open a second Rox window to your home partition again, and right-click an empty space. Select New>Directory and give it a name, such as Temp1. Click to open it, and create within it a new folder, in this case ffdiaporama-0.1. [Puppy likes, but doesn't insist that pets have version numbers]. Click to open it and create a new folder named usr. Click to open it and create a new folder named share. Click to open it and create a new folder named applications. Now drag/drop your ffDiaporama.desktop file from /usr/share/applications onto it and select copy. If you were to now open that application folder you'd find a copy of ffDiaporama.desktop inside.

You'll have noticed that you've created a series of folders imitating the actual path where your ffDiaporama.desktop file was found. We're going to do the same thing for the other two files, the png and the script.

You should still have two Rox windows open. One to /mnt/home/Temp1/ffdiaporama-0.1/usr/share/ with the folder “applications” showing. Click an empty space next to it, select New>directory and give it the name “pixmaps” without the quotes. Your other Rox window is open to /usr/share/applications, with ffDiaporama.desktop showing. Click Rox's up-arrow –which takes you back to share-- and scroll until you see the pixmaps folder. Click to enter it. Scroll until you see the ffdia.png. Then drag/drop >copy it onto the pixmaps folder in the other Rox Window.

Now switch back to the /usr/share/pixmaps window and click the “Home” icon. Click folders until you can see the ffDiaporama script in /root/my-applications/bin. Switch back to your Temp1 folder and click the Up-Arrow until you see the usr folder. Right-click an empty space next to it, select New>Directory and name it “root” without the quotes. Click that directory to enter it, and create a new folder named “my-applications” without the quotes. Click to enter it and create a new folder named “bin” without the quotes. Now switch to your other Rox Window and drag/drop >copy the ffDiaporama script onto this bin folder.

You're almost done. You can close the Rox window open to /root/my-applications/bin. On the folder in Temp1, click the up-arrow until you see the folder named ffdiaporama-0.1. Right-click an empty space and select “Terminal here”. A terminal will open and you'll type the following command:

dir2pet ffdiaporama-0.1 and press Enter.

If you misspelled the name of the folder, you'll receive an error message. Just click the Up-Cursor Key on your keyboard and the command will again appear in the terminal. Use your cursor to back space thru it, and your delete and other keys as necessary until the name is properly spelled. Then press Enter.

Puppy will open a dialog. Mostly you'll just press Enter to continue. But there's one question “Dependencies” where I type in Wine-portable, or Wine-portable & named application on /mnt/home as the case may be.

When you finish pressing Enter, Puppy will have created a pet next to your ffdiaporama-0.1 folder. You can drag/drop >Move the pet into the PuppyStuff folder you created near the beginning. You can delete the ffdiaporama-0.1 folder together with the record Puppy also created of the pet. You can leave the empty Temp1 folder on /mnt/home for the next time you have some work to do.

If you ever have to change something about the pet you created, you can unpack it. Just right-click it and select Rename. Change the .pet ending to .tgz. Right-click it and your Archiving application will decompress it.

If you ignored my advice to substitute Wine-portable for the installed version of Wine, most of what I said above can still be useful. You probably won't have winetricks, and should follow the advice given by nic007 and Sylvander: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=813533#813533

But you can still create menu entries under Puppy's categories and pets as above. It's just that the commands you put into the scripts in /root/my-applications/bin will be slightly different.

The one for ffDiaporama in the folder on /mnt/home would now read:

#!/bin/sh
wine /mnt/home/ffDiaporama/App/ffDiaporama/ffDiaporama.exe

Note, there's no .sh after wine.

While the command for Shotcut –which is now in the hidden .wine folder within Puppy's structure would read, something like,

#!/bin/sh
wine /root/.wine/drive_c/'Program Files'/Shotcut/shotcut.exe

Again, be careful about capitalization, punctuation and that a "." is part of the name of the wine folder under /root.

Well, if you've done all this perhaps its best if you give yourself a couple more merit badges, and think of yourself no longer as a tenderfoot or noob, but as a first-class –'though not yet expert-- Linux person. Very Happy

Hope this helps.

mikesLr
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ardvark


Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1162
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec 2014, 01:47    Post_subject:  

Hi...

I don't use wine but thank you for taking the time to write all that out for folks who do! Smile

Regards...

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neerajkolte


Joined: 10 Feb 2014
Posts: 412
Location: Pune, India.

PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec 2014, 06:22    Post_subject:  

Just bookmarking this.
Nice one mikesLr.
Thanks.

- Neeraj.

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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3547
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec 2014, 08:01    Post_subject:  

1. Began following your instructions...
Went well at first...
Began to fail to comprehend at item 5, but got there [I used Xfe rather than ROX to "unpack" the tar.gz file to folder "wine-portable-1.6.2"].

2. Used ROX to right-click on "the folder" [took me some time to realise that "the folder" was "wine-portable-1.6.2"]

3. Moved folder="wine-portable-1.6.2" to my special banking Flash Drive that holds my Windows portable "Pasword Vault" exe file [that needs WINE to run it under Puppy].
I use a multi-session DVD+RW of tahr-6.0-CE_PAE for my online banking.
I'd much rather run a portable version of WINE that's held on my banking Flash Drive; seems to me that would be more secure.
It's only used for banking, and only connected for the short time taken to complete transactions at the banking website.

4. Regarding the running of Windows portable programs under WINE:
I saw that you said...
"You can, of course, start it opening Rox to its executable, and clicking it."
I thought "surely that's impossible", but gave it a try anyway.
I was ASTONISHED when it worked! Surprised WONDERFUL! Very Happy
How is that possible?
Was that portable WINE running in RAM?
How can ROX run a Windows executable?
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 839
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec 2014, 15:15    Post_subject: Wine-portable without Rox  

Hi Sylvander,

Rox, especially when lots of right-click options have been added, just makes life easier. But your post reminded me that I should have included a link to how I set up wine-portable under Carolina which uses Thunar. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=793047#793047. For completeness, I'll add the instructions battleshooter gave me subsequently about creating symlinks when using Thunar. IIRC, Confused you hold down the Ctl key while dragging and dropping.

Neither Rox, nor Thunar, nor pcmanfm actually knows anything about wine by itself. But they do know BASH. If you look in /usr/bin you'll find the Bash script named "wine.sh".

When you install wine, rather than employ the portable, you'll find in that location an actual binary named wine. That's the reason when using the portable Bash scripts require the command "wine.sh" rather than "wine".

Frankly, I don't really know how the geniuses shinobar, version2013 and the japanese team worked their magic. I suspect that the wine.sh script calls the wine binary tucked away in the SFS enclosed in the portable's folder. And I suspect that part of either installation includes appropriate mine-type definitions. I don't recall ever being able to obtain full control over handling wine when emelfm2 was the file-manager. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=574017#574017

Which Windows portable "Pasword Vault" exe are you using?

Many of my earlier posts have encouraged the use of "Program Folders" --applications decompressed into Folders on /mnt/home rather than SFSes. But I made the mistake Wink of looking into the Security subforum's threads recently. Hardly a day goes by without some major malware exploit being reported. I don't expect to be targeted, and most of the data on my computers has the sensitivity level of a granite, but the technique of criminal organizations seems to be to cast out a big net, catch everything and let computers hunt for gold nuggets.
The files of a Program Folder are entirely exposed. SFSes are compressed files, so surreptitious manipulating the files they contain can't be done easily. But probably everyone has some personal data on his or her computer which they would prefer to remain "personal."

The recent development of SaveFolders has made Puppy easier to expand: to add applications and include more data files. On the other hand, SaveFolders don't even have the compression protection of SaveFiles. That's of little concern for most things. But again, especially for banking and other online financial matters, it makes the use of Puppy riskier. So I'm exploring the idea of a Two-Puppy Setup. One for most things, the other for sensitive matters. Greengeek's development of Banksy falls into the later category. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=813562#813562. For expandability of banksy's closed system, RSH's RoxApp link to SFSes may be serviceable. His technique avoids the general 6-SFS limit. In fact, it enables loading and unloading any number of SFSes on the fly. While we have been using Application SFSes, RSH's technique suggest that there is little reason not to store data as SFSes*. [Perhaps, ala windows adding a “Documents” sub-category to the Menu].
But in the end, some application to create encrypted folders –and preferably make use of them on the fly-- for holding sensitive data would have to be included.

So, I guess exploring the above has now become my background interest.

mikesLr

* Just tried that. Created a folder named my-notes-0.1. Within created the folder root, and within that the folder my-notes. Copied some files into the last, then dir2sfs'd the my-notes-0.1 folder creating a my-notes-0.1.sfs.
Loaded it on the fly, The my-notes folder appeared in /, with the files I had copied within it. Unloaded it.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3547
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Sat 13 Dec 2014, 09:18    Post_subject:  

1. "Which Windows portable "Pasword Vault" exe are you using?"
Acerose Password Vault v1.02 first got/used in 2008 May 11th.
Been happily using it since.

2. "If you look in /usr/bin you'll find the Bash script named "wine.sh". "
There is no "wine.sh" to be found anywhere on my Slacko-5.7.0-PAE filesystem [from where I'm typing this].
Nor on sdb1 [partition on Flash Drive], where folder "wine-portable-1.6.2" currently resides.

3. "When you install wine, rather than employ the portable, you'll find in that location an actual binary named wine."
I have "wine-1.5.15-i686" installed here, and there is indeed /usr/bin/wine.
And this installation works just fine.

4. "...the other for sensitive matters. Greengeek's development of Banksy falls into the later category."
I'm seriously thinking of giving the latest Banksy [3?] a try.
I wondered if I'd be able to install WINE into Banksy...
So then I thought that a portable WINE on my Flash Drive might make that un-necessary.
Banksy could run the portable WINE, and that portable WINE could run my Password Vault.
...Or as an alternative...
Does it have "SFS-Load on-the-fly" [or can it be installed?], and might that be used to run an SFS of WINE.

5. Problems encountered:
a. I have 2 Flash drives, each with a different Puppy installed, as follows...
tahr-6.0-CE_PAE
And...
Quirky Unicorn
I tried running each, using ROX to run my Password Vault that's held on yet another flash drive, and on each Puppy, APV FAILED to run.
I'm confused...why doesn't running APV using ROX work in this environment?
So...
b. I installed wine-1.6.2 in one of the above, and discovered that somehow it had installed to [over?] the portable copy within folder "wine-portable-1.6.2".
This confuses me!
And I could then use the winefile command to run wine, and use the Z:\ drive to run the "Acerose Password Vault" [APV].
Any idea what's going on here?
At least it works, but is the portable WINE being used?
Am I whining?
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 839
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Sat 13 Dec 2014, 12:03    Post_subject: banksy-SFS-Load on the fly & other questions  

Hi Sylvander,

banksy does have a working SFS-load on the fly. But as banksy is designed to be run from a CD/DVD or a frugal install without a SaveFile. You have to load the SFS after every reboot, and IIRC restart of X. Moreover, NTFS mounting is locked to 'Read Only' to minimize risk to existing Windows partition. I don't know whether that might prevent using SFSes from an NTFS formated USB-Key. I think they can still be loaded, but you may not be able to change them; such as add new a new file to an encrypted folder on a NTFS formatted USB-Key. [Work-around: a two Puppy system. Files written to Linux partitions under banksy, then transfered to USB-key running a different Pup]. Before running Personator, SFSes can also be copied to a folder in /opt/ -- I think its named /b3user. Such SFS will be part of your personalized banksy and won't requiring running the pmount command to be reached. But again, changes won't be preserved unless personator is run again creating a new personalized OS.
Moverover, pmount --necessary to access drives-- has been "hidden". It won't run from the menu. Currently, to run it you have to open a terminal and type pmounter. On the drawing board is a way to customize this command to the users choice. pmount/pmounter are just scripts. You can name them anything. For example, if it had the name "eatme", typing eatme in the terminal will run the mounting application. The idea is that the user will select a name before running personator. On the personalized version only he or she will know the command for mounting drives.

Regarding your wine questions, currently I don't have a glue regarding your question 5.

My initial impression are as follows: (1) wine.sh will only be present in /usr/bin if you've registered Wine-portable. With Thunar as your file-manager, such as in Carolina or X-Slacko, you'll only see wine-portable as another folder on the partition. Click it to open it. You'll see a script named register. Click it. Using Slacko-5.7.0-PAE, right-click the wine-portable folder an you'll see an option to register it. The register script installs into your Pup the files, including /usr/bin/wine.sh, which are necessary for wine-portable to run.

By the way, although I haven't tried it, you should be able to have both a wine-portable and an installed wine version at the same time. But after registering or installing the first, you'll have to change file names --in particular those of and referenced in the /usr/share/application/wine_anything.desktop files before registering/installing the second. Otherwise only the Menu will only display the second "installation."

So I suspect that's what's happened. Your installation of a wine pet over-wrote the menu listing for your previous registering of wine-portable. Then when you started winefile from the Menu, it was the "installed" --rather than portable-- version which was run. So your Acerrose program was installed to the "installed" rather than portable-wine.

Last thought: banksy personalized sfs can be edited just like any other Pup. I did that with banksypup2 to include Chromium39. So it should be possible to edit it to include an installable version of wine. But, IAPITA. And to preserve anything --such as new data files-- you'll still have to mount a partition on which to write because banksy doesn't have a SaveFile. It always boots in the pristine condition it had just after you ran personator.

Consequently, it should be easier to use portable-wine. I think all that would be necessary would be the following: format your USB-key, or at least part of it, as a Linux drive. Place your wine-portable on the Linux formatted partition.
After starting banksy, run pmounter --or whatever its been named-- and mount the partition holding wine-portable. Register it the first time, and every time you boot banksy. Since Puppies --including banksy-- run entirely in RAM, merging the files copied from drives with new files you install or create in RAM, after registering portable-wine it will be available as part of Puppy's "merged file" system until you shut-down/reboot/restart-x. Since portable-wine will be on a writable Linux partition, anything you write to it will be preserved. Although XP programs will run when installed to Linux partitions, Windows can't natively read files on Linux partitions. That adds a level of security. But, of course, there are windows programs which can be installed so that Linux partitions, folders and files don't appear to be just "blocks."

Remember, if using banksy links to external partitions are not preserved. While your portable-wine folder will still hold, for example, the Acerose Program, previously installed, banksy won't have any menu listing for it. To run such program, you can right-click portable-wine and select Open Drive C:, and then open folders until you see and can click Acerose's executable. Or if you took the necessary steps to create a Acerose-pet --before running personator, or while running a different Pup-- you can copy that pet into /opt/B3user (or something) before running personator. Your personalized version will have the pet there. After mounting the partition on which wine-portable is located, clicking the pet will install it creating listings on banksy's menu. At least until you shut banksy down/reboot. As an added measure of security, you don't have to name your pet Acerose. Names to help humans remember. Computer's don't care. Name your pet "jolly-jack-game", use Jolly-jack-game for the Name argument and use "Fun;Game" as the Category argument; and someone browsing into /opt/b3user-something, won't know what it does, and won't know why just clicking the pet --creating a menu entry for the Jolly-Jack-Game on the Games submenu-- clicking that menu item does nothing. You, of course, will know that to run Acerose you first have to mount the partition holding wine-portable.

All of which may seem like a great deal of unnecessary work. And it is unless you're using a Pup like banksy whose primary objective is to provide a secure OS for online banking and financial activity. Then that amount of work has to be measured against the time and cost of gasoline you save banking online rather than having to drive to your bank on each occasion.

mikesLr
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3547
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Mon 15 Dec 2014, 05:43    Post_subject:  

1. "You have to load the SFS after every reboot"
That's OK by me.

2. "and IIRC restart of X"
Why so?

3. "might prevent using SFSes from an NTFS formated USB-Key"
The partition on my USB Flash Drive is ext3, so no problem there.

4. "currently I don't have a glue regarding your question 5."
Ah well, looks like I won't be using the portable WINE with those, untill I figure out how to make it work.

5. "wine.sh will only be present in /usr/bin if you've registered Wine-portable"
Ah, so I need to register it.

6. "right-click the wine-portable folder an you'll see an option to register it."
I'll try that, and report back.

7. "you should be able to have both a wine-portable and an installed wine version at the same time."
I'll avoid that complication, methinks.

8. "Your installation of a wine pet over-wrote the menu listing for your previous registering of wine-portable."
Problem is...
I haven't yet registered a wine-portable in any running Puppy.

9. "Then when you started winefile from the Menu"
I've never yet done that.
Will report that once I have.

10. "you'll still have to mount a partition on which to write because banksy doesn't have a SaveFile. It always boots in the pristine condition it had just after you ran personator."
Is that somewhat of a PITA, or don't you mind that?

11. "run pmounter --or whatever its been named-- and mount the partition holding wine-portable. Register it the first time, and every time you boot banksy."
Hmmm, I wonder if I'll find that pestiferous?
Might put me off using it.
Time will tell.

12. "Since portable-wine will be on a writable Linux partition, anything you write to it will be preserved."
I like it! Very Happy

13. "Although XP programs will run when installed to Linux partitions, Windows can't natively read files on Linux partitions. That adds a level of security..."
NICE! Very Happy

14. "While your portable-wine folder will still hold, for example, the Acerose Program, previously installed"
I never install Acerose [APV]...I always run it as a portable program.

15. "you can right-click portable-wine and select Open Drive C:, and then open folders until you see and can click Acerose's executable."
Since I use APV as a portable, I don't use the C: drive, I use the Z: drive.
So how would that be done?

16. "After mounting the partition on which wine-portable is located, clicking the pet will install it creating listings on banksy's menu. At least until you shut banksy down/reboot."
Now that definitely seems like too much trouble...
And besides that, the whole point is that I want to use a portable WINE held on my banking Flash Drive ext3 partition.
I already have all kinds of Puppies with WINE installed.

17. "All of which may seem like a great deal of unnecessary work. And it is unless you're using a Pup like banksy whose primary objective is to provide a secure OS for online banking and financial activity."
I shall think about that, provided I can get my mind around it all.
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