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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Banksy 3 - aka "The Personator"
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4739
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 12:43    Post subject:  

So do you still wish to continue loading from CD? If so that makes loading much slower than from HDD. With banksy being built from read only sfs I generally take the risk of loading it from USB or HDD frugal to get better load speed.

Did you notice a longer load time when trialling the WX version? It is a fatter version and each extra MB takes a finite time to load. One of my concerns with the idea of building a personal sfs from all of the current system changes is the resulting increase in personal sfs size and increase in load time. Up to the user to evaluate the cost/benefit ratio i guess.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4298
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 14:33    Post subject:  

@ greengeek

1. "So do you still wish to continue loading from CD?"
Yes.

2. "If so that makes loading much slower than from HDD."
I'll accept that so as to get the increased security.

3. "Did you notice a longer load time when trialling the WX version?"
No.

4. "Up to the user to evaluate the cost/benefit ratio i guess."
Seems OK to me.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4739
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 15:06    Post subject:  

@Sylvander - how do you normally handle /mnt/home? (banksy doesn't actually use /mnt/home at all).

I'm just thinking that someone who is used to their personal files being stored in /mnt/home may be confused by that location being discarded in any future expansion of the banksy personalisation routine. I wouldn't want someone to lose a heap of important data in the belief that a "full" personalisation script was grabbing anything and everything. The responsibility for saving personal data is left 100% in the hands of the user when using banksy and this would not change with expansion of the initial personalisation (except for whatever data the user decided to store in the /opt/b3user directory which is the personal cache retained across the personalisation process).
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4739
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 16:15    Post subject:  

Note to self - investigate "ram2sfs" from Ted dog
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4298
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 17:21    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
@Sylvander - how do you normally handle /mnt/home?

My Banksy3 doesn't have any /mnt/home, which is normally on partition sda5 because most of my other Puppies have their pupsave files on sda5.
Hence, if I want to access anything on sda5 within Banksy3, I would use the pmounter command and choose to mount sda5, and then would be able to access content at that location.

Similar action needed if I wanted to access ANYTHING anywhere [e.g. "Acerose Password Vault" (APV) located on my Flash Drive = sdb1].
I find such things to be EASY to do.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4739
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Mon 04 Apr 2016, 04:18    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
What if...
It were possible to have Banksy operate initially just like any other Puppy in regard to cutomizing, so that it would be real easy make ANY kind of personalizations

Hi Sylvander, it will take me some time to achieve all the things you mentioned (particularly the "un-Banksying" idea) but I have gone one step closer with the addition of some different personalisation scripts which offer the option of capturing all personalisations.

You have probably noticed from some other threads that capturing every system change can be tricky so there may be some issues i have not detected, but as far as I can tell this new script of mine works really well to allow the new version to capture all system changes, encapsulate them in a readonly sfs, create a new iso and then automatically burn it direct to optical media.

I booted from the generic version then added a bunch of pets and using the new script made myself an iso that was over 450MB and everything worked perfectly.

For this version I decided to revert to the original banksy3 - it does lack some of the extras that are in b3max but the smaller size means the user can add exacty what they want (and it was easier/quicker to handle the files during the upgrade process).

The "personator" functionality is just the same as it was before, but I have added the new "grab all" script via a desktop icon which I have called the "impersonator":
- the personator script is for grabbing a small critical subset of personalisations.
- the impersonator script is for grabbing all personalisations so that the new iso "impersonates" exactly what you were already using.

I call the new banksy "The Impersonator"
("b3imp" for short)

Download links here:

EDIT : original link deleted. Replaced by better version here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=899307#899307

This version does not have Wine and xfe installed but you should be able to add those exactly the same way you previously did. I am keen to know if it retains all the necessary stuff after you install all the goodies you need.
I will keep upgrading any issues I find but if you are able to test and find things that need fixing please let me know. Seems good so far.

Caveats:

- The "impersonator" script has been designed to do a "one time" grab of the personalisations - so it is necessary to boot the generic iso then add all desired changes and customisations in one session, then run the impersonator script. (It has not been tested for multiple "progressive" changes such as a savefile is intended for)

- The amount of RAM required to successfully complete the impersonator process is dependent on the amount of data that you add during the personalisation process. I think 1GB RAM would be the minimum, and my testing was on a 2GB machine.
.

Last edited by greengeek on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 14:00; edited 2 times in total
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4298
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Mon 04 Apr 2016, 06:42    Post subject:  

WOW!
You are making wishes come true. Very Happy

This I've got to try.
I'll be back ASAP having done the necessary.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Problem at 1st attempt:
1. Downloaded the new b3impgeneric_RC1.iso & b3impgeneric_RC1.iso-md5.txt, with no problem.

2. md5sum checked as OK.

3. Burned the new number-1 CD-RW OK.

4. Booted the new CD-RW OK.

5. Personalized the new b3impgeneric_RC1 OK.

6. Switched in the blank/new number-2 CD-RW disk.
Clicked on the impersonator link OK.
Program ran OK, but at some point during the proces I noticed down at bottom right that the "personal-storage-free-space" was down at the lowest setting and flashing red.
My desktop has 8GB of RAM, so that surprises me.
I guess only 4GB is being used, right?

7. The making of the personalized ISO completed; burn to disk completed OK.

8. Tried to save the new ISO file to my sda6 internal partition, but pmounter could not run, reporting that there wasn't enough memory to run.

9. Rebooted to the new number-2 CD-RW, but the CD wouldn't boot.
Instead: WinXP began to boot.
This only happens if there is no bootable optical disk in the drive.

10. Booted into Slacko to check out the problem CD-RW.
The disk had been blanked using Pburn prior to burning using the "impersonator".
Pburn showed it as "Closed".
I used Pburn to blank the number-2 disk yet again, and it showed as green/empty yet again.

11. I'll make a 2nd attempt ASAP.
Any suggestions as to what to look out for?
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4739
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Mon 04 Apr 2016, 13:07    Post subject:  

Sounds like I may have got something set up incorrectly. Unfortunately I won't be able to test further today (stuck on android).

Any chance you could try the process again but making only a single small change (such as adding a text file into /root)?

I do have a large swap partition - I wonder if that makers a difference. I will do more testing as soon as I am able.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4298
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 05 Apr 2016, 15:08    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
...try the process again but making only a single small change (such as adding a text file into /root)?

Done, and it worked OK.

List of small personalizations:
"quicksetup" settings.
Desktop wallpaper changed.
Made a small text file in /root.
Free space dropped from 4 to 3 rings.
Iso was made OK.
Disk burned OK, it booted OK.
Typing from it now.
Free space showing 4 rings once again.

Will now make 2nd attempt at the full personalizations.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4739
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Tue 05 Apr 2016, 15:44    Post subject:  

Try plugging in a USB stick formatted as "Linux swap". I just tried adding about 400MB of personalisations and the processing exceeded my 2GB RAM and flowed into swap. I think Slackos nonPAE kernel will only use 3GB of your RAM so swap becomes critical if you add too much data.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4298
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 05 Apr 2016, 16:06    Post subject:  

1. 2nd attempt at full customization was successful. Very Happy
DIFFERENCE:
I chose NOT install the WINE extras.
Upon making the ISO file...
"personal storage frre space" reduced from 4 green rings to 2 amber rings.
I guess the process succeeded because it didn't go into the red zone [no free space remaining].

2. Need to check if I have an empty Flash Drive I can use for a swap partition.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4739
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Wed 06 Apr 2016, 02:26    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
Done, and it worked OK.
List of small personalizations:
"quicksetup" settings.
Desktop wallpaper changed.
Made a small text file in /root.
Free space dropped from 4 to 3 rings.
This surprises me. I would not have expected such a minor customisation to have dropped your personal space to 3 rings when you have so much RAM. Could you hover over the "partview" icon before and during the process to see what it tells you about total personal storage available? Mine tells me I have 6.1GB of personal storage but now that I look at it I don't understand that figure as I have 2GB RAM and 10GB of swap. Not sure how that becomes 6.1GB storage.
What does yours say?

I only see the effect of free storage rings turning from green to orange when I load an huge amount of extra personalisation data and it loads up the memory during the automatic distillor/compressor/isolator process. I can probably tidy those scripts up a bit so that some tmp directories are deleted after use. But I still don't think you should see the stroage space depletion when only adding minor customisations. You should have at least 3GB of RAM available.

Quote:
2nd attempt at full customization was successful.
OK, thats good news. First base anyway.

Quote:
I chose NOT install the WINE extras.
Are you referring to the zenity and mpg123 dependencies or do you mean the mono and gecko extras that self-download when you start Wine?

I guess its possible that the mono and gecko leave some large downloaded file somewhere in the file system. Maybe that has an impact.

Quote:
Upon making the ISO file...
"personal storage frre space" reduced from 4 green rings to 2 amber rings. I guess the process succeeded because it didn't go into the red zone [no free space remaining].
Yes, that would be my interpretation.

Quote:
Need to check if I have an empty Flash Drive I can use for a swap partition.
I would be very interested to know if having a usb attached swap space changes the figures you see when you hover over the "partview" icon. Does the system see this as an addition to your personal space? Or is there something else I need to look at I wonder. More testing to follow...
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4298
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 06 Apr 2016, 07:07    Post subject:  

1. " I would not have expected such a minor customisation to have dropped your personal space to 3 rings when you have so much RAM."
Same here.

2. "Could you hover over the "partview" icon before and during the process to see what it tells you about total personal storage available?"
Before doing any customizations:
4 green rings: 9.0G personal space, 9.0G free.
I have 8GB RAM [only 3.0 GB being used?] PLUS I added an 8GB swap partition in the free space on a 32GB Flash Drive.
So why isn't there 8+3 = 11GB?

3. "...do you mean the mono and gecko extras that self-download when you start Wine?"
Yes, these ask to be installed, and during the 2nd attempt I chose to NOT install those.

4. "I guess its possible that the mono and gecko leave some large downloaded file somewhere in the file system."
I'm guessing that when these are added to the ISO, they use up the last of the remaining "personal storage", so it goes into the red.

5. "I would be very interested to know if having a usb attached swap space changes the figures you see when you hover over the "partview" icon. Does the system see this as an addition to your personal space?"
Yes, it does.
I'll post this, and then close the web-browser, and go through the full customizations [including mono & gecko], taking notes of "free storage" as I go, then report back on those values [added below].

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm back to report on attempt-3:
a. 4-green rings: 9.0G personal storage, 9.0G free.

b. After installing Xfe = 9.0G free.

c. After installing WINE = 8.9G free.

d. After config of Xfe = 8.9G free.

e. Running winefile command, but:
Pre mono install = 8.8G free.
After installing mono = 8.6G free.
Pre gecko install = 8.6G free.
After installing gecko = 8.5G free.

f. During the impersonator process, free storage dropping bit-by-bit to 7.1G free [during making of the ISO].
No further decrease of free storage during remainder of the impersonator process.

g. Rebooted using the new CD-RW [attempt-3 CD], with Flash Drive removed.
Booted just fine.
At desktop...personal storage = 1.5G, 1.5G free.
Seems to be half what it aught to be.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

h. All is looking good.
All personalizations appear to be present and functioning.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4739
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Wed 06 Apr 2016, 12:13    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander, thanks for the thorough testing and feedback. My interpretation of the results is that mono and gecko may have consumed a reasonable amount of space for the download, then additional space for the extracted files grafted into puppy itself. Probably my impersonator script should have ditched the original downloaded files but I have no idea where they may be.

I will try to investigate where Wine stores this stuff.

However, I sense that there is an underlying question with regard to personal space calculation and handling. I realise now that all my banksy development has been done while I have had a 10GB swap partition on internal hard disk. I have just tried to turn off that swap but it made no difference to my 6GB personal storage shown by part view. Possibly it needs to be unavailable at boot time to properly update the space calculation. More testing required - I will try a different machine and use the USB swap method.

I am glad you at least have a working system. It would be nice if I can figure out why 1.5GB of your storage is AWOL. Surely that must take forever to load? And a cdrw only holds 650MB doesn't it, rather than 1.5GB? I doubt Wine has stolen the lot. Might be some artifact of the way I built banksy.

I will report back with any meaningful results.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4298
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 06 Apr 2016, 13:54    Post subject:  

1. " I have no idea where they may be."
My guess would be in the /tmp folder.
Perhaps Pfind would find them.

2. "It would be nice if I can figure out why 1.5GB of your storage is AWOL. Surely that must take forever to load?"
It is somewhat slow, but I figured that was because it must load the files from a slow optical disk/drive.

3. "a cdrw only holds 650MB doesn't it"
I believe my CD-RW's hold 700MB.

4. "I doubt Wine has stolen the lot."
Puppy is telling me that the latest Banksy3 CD-RW files are occupying 366MB.
That's bigger than the original disks' reported 209MB occupied, but nowhere near filling the 700MB.
366 - 209 = 157 MB.
366MB is much smaller than the 8.5GB - 7.1 GB = 1.4 GB of free storage that disappears during the making of the ISO.
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