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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Banksy 3 - aka "The Personator"
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4293
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar 2016, 03:33    Post subject:  

1. Now posting from within my personalized version of Banksy3.
FABULOUS! Very Happy
Everything was so easy to do.
"Just worked".

2. Oops, spoke too soon.
Some personalizations not working.
e.g.
a. I installed Xfe, and it's showing in "Menu->Filesystem", but won't run when clicked there.
Entering xfe command in a terminal window produces "bash: xfe: command not found".
b. I configured PPM "Classic" interface, but that isn't displayed when I run PPM.
Forced to choose it each time I run PPM.

3. Personalizations that ARE working:
a. Installed WINE.
That is functioning just fine.
Was able to use "pmounter" command to mount my Flash Drive that holds "Acerose Password Vault" [APV], then run APV and use it to go to my banking website and log in.
That alone makes this a GO-er.
I can now use it as my number-1 online banking Puppy.
Now I'm wondering: "for what else can I use Banksy3".
Its simple remastering process seems so useful.
Suggestions welcomed.
b. Various configurations using "quicksetup" and "Menu->Desktop->Nathan Wallpaper Setter" worked just fine.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4662
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Thu 24 Mar 2016, 02:52    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
Some personalizations not working.
Hi Sylvander, many thanks for trying banksy 3.
In terms of personalisations banksy works completely the opposite way to other puppies:

- Normal pups save almost every change (good or bad) that has been made to the system, with a few minor exceptions (special directories).
- By contrast banksy 3 is designed to reject all changes, with the exception of a few specific system changes that I have decided are critical to set up banksy on its first run the way the user wants it to be. These changes are only remembered at the time the "personator" scripts are run - ie you only run them once, the "remembering" does not occur at every shutdown as a puppy is normally set to do by default.

Of course there is a downside to these "selected" personalisations - I don't have any idea what changes other users might want to remember permanently on their systems - I have only set it up to satisfy my own needs.

However - if a user needs to include other specific personalisations there are several ways that a user can do so at the time they run the personator scripts to build the personal sfs file. Here are a couple:

1) If you use a text editor to have a look at the script /root/isolator/1-b3distillor you will see exactly what I have chosen to "remember" at the time that the personalisation script is run. Modifying this script prior to running the personator script will allow new personalisations to be included.

In your case you may wish to modify the script to include any Wine config files in the data that is collected at personalisation time.
(Just remember that the changes to that script are only valid while your system is running and the file exists in memory. As soon as you shutdown or reboot the changes to that file are lost - that is part of how I intend banksy to work. This is normally fine as you only want to run the personalisations once).

2) If you don't wish to modify the b3distillor script there is another way to achieve the same thing. The scripts in /root/isolator allow the personalisation routines to be run manually one at a time. Here is a summary of what happens:

a) Set up your system according to first run etc, and making other changes (if you want) that are described in the "HowTo" file on the desktop.
b) Run the /root/1-b3distillor script and it will create the directory /tmp/banksydistillor (and automatically populate it with the basic personalisations)
- this directory will be used in the next step where we create the new personalised sfs - but before we do that we can add other files manually into that directory. This is where you may wish to add Wine config files wherever they need to be (maybe /tmp/banksydistillor/root?), or add other program files (into /tmp/banksydistillor/usr/bin for example), or even add some pets, sfs files or other miscellaneous stuff as a "user payload" into /tmp/banksydistillor/opt/b3user (this is a special "holding pen" for stuff you may want to access occasionally from within your running system but can't be bothered remastering into the main sfs or don't wish to access from a mounted storage for security reasons)
c) When you have set up the changes you want then you can run /root/isolator/2-b3compressor and it will convert the distillor directory into your personalised sfs.
Once that is done you can simply graft that personalised sfs into your HDD frugal or usb frugal installation or continue with the /root/3-b3isolator script if you wish to create a full .iso file.
If you go down the iso creation route you can then run either /root/isolator/4-b3cdcreator or 4-b3dvdcreator depending on what kind of optical media you want to burn (make sure you put the media into the optical drive first).

Quote:
a. I installed Xfe, and it's showing in "Menu->Filesystem", but won't run when clicked there.
Entering xfe command in a terminal window produces "bash: xfe: command not found".
b. I configured PPM "Classic" interface, but that isn't displayed when I run PPM.
Forced to choose it each time I run PPM.
Yep, these are all things I didnt include. I don't use xfe (yet) and seldom make any changes to themes or general appearance (other than desktop background) so I haven't tried to include that sort of stuff. I've just gone for the basics.

Quote:
Now I'm wondering: "for what else can I use Banksy3".
Its simple remastering process seems so useful.
Suggestions welcomed.
The sky's the limit. Once you feel comfortable with how to graft new personalisations in you can add whatever you like. One thing I like to do is to make .pets of my favourite programs (pdf editors, librecad, printer drivers, alternative browsers etc etc etc) and load them as required. After I shut down the installed pets are lost from memory and my basic personalised banksy comes back fresh as a daisy next boot. This is a real bonus when I try out pets that are faulty or badly made - any problems they cause are only temporary rather than getting grafted into a savefile.
I keep my favourite pets on an external usb (or wherever my frugal install is) and just access them via pmounter as needed.


*************
EDIT : I feel the need to add one more comment - although this might seem confusing till you get familiar with the process I described above:
- it is important to realise that the b3personator icon on the desktop only ever allows the collection of the personalisations specified in the /root/1-b3distillor file.
This means that if you use the manual process above to create a highly personalised version of b3 you will not be able to create a cloned version of that puppy by using the b3personator icon.
The b3personator icon can only ever clone all of your personalisations if they have all been harvested through being specified in the /root/1-b3distillor script.

If you have used the manual method to add the personalisations and you wish to make multiple copies of the outcome you are probably best to go the whole hog and produce a complete iso file so that you can burn as many CDs as you like. (The iso can be created by sequentially using all four of the scripts found in /root/isolator)
(What I am saying is that if you use the manual process to extend the personalisation you have to forget about the personator icon - it is only designed to help newbies grab a specific subset of basic personalisations)

One more thing - if you do decide to modify the /root/1-b3distillor file keep a backup copy of it on external storage. It will disappear from memory after each boot (as it never becomes part of the main banksy3 sfs unless you remaster it in there). You may find over time that your modifications to the distillor script allow you to harvest the perfect set of personalisations for your needs and you will find it handy to have a record of what you did last time rather than re-inventing the wheel each time you make a newly personalised b3

Hope I haven't lost you with all the blurb!

ps: I try to avoid remastering the main banksy sfs as I don't like to have multiple different versions of that sfs. If the name doesn't change then I feel the contents shouldn't change either. That's the whole point of adding a personal sfs - you can change the name of it to reflect it's contents, or it's creation date etc etc.

*******************

Last edited by greengeek on Thu 24 Mar 2016, 14:42; edited 5 times in total
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Thu 24 Mar 2016, 11:56    Post subject: Nice idea, a ready for use Puppy, newbies will like it !  

Nice idea, a ready for use Puppy, newbies will like it !
Banksy 3 had passed through my casting. Thank you to issue such OS, for our large but Linux ignorant public
Insert the CD, all what they need. Smile

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Passenger Pelo ! don't ask him to repair the aircraft. Don't use him as a demining dog .... pleeease.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4293
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 29 Mar 2016, 03:47    Post subject:  

@ greengeek

1. My latest news:
a. I booted my latest personalized version of my CD-RW burned originally using the "banksy3generic_01.iso", intending to use it for online banking.

b. Discovered that no WINE was included, although I had installed it prior to clicking the "b3personator" icon and remastering.
Hence I was forced to [yet again] install WINE prior to doing the necessary to bain access to the "Acerose Password Vault" [APV] on my Flash Drive.
It's ESSENTIAL that WINE is available once at the b3 desktop, without the necessity of installing it each time b3 is booted.
SO...

c. I attempted to read and understand your [what seem to me to be] detailed [and for me, difficult to grasp] explanations/instructions.
I don't think I'll manage to complete your instructions.
e.g.

2. "The b3personator icon can only ever clone all of your personalisations if they have all been harvested through being specified in the /root/1-b3distillor script."
Understood.
My problem is that I don't believe I have the ability to successfully modify the [content of the] /root/isolator/1-b3distillor script file.

3. "2) If you don't wish to modify the b3distillor script there is another way to achieve the same thing. The scripts in /root/isolator allow the personalisation routines to be run manually one at a time."
Understood, BUT...
I believe that even though using this method, it would still be necessary for me to edit the /root/isolator/1-b3distillor script file, which [I believe] I'm incapable of doing.
Or have I misunderstood?
Any chance you could do the necessary for WINE [and Xfe?] and upload a copy of the modified file for downloading by me [and others?]
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4662
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Tue 29 Mar 2016, 10:08    Post subject:  

I will try. Are you able to post links to the versions of Wine and xfe packages that you found compatible?
Cheers
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4293
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 29 Mar 2016, 11:53    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
Are you able to post links to the versions of Wine and xfe packages that you found compatible?

Ummmm...
I used versions found in the b3 PPM.
i.e.
wine-1.5.15-i686
xfe-1.34-i686

These appear to work OK.

I also notice that Banksy3 works really FAST [once loaded]. Very Happy
Of course, loading is slow, but not nearly so slow as the multi-session-DVD-RW I used formerly for banking.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4662
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016, 02:30    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander,

I had a look at the Wine package and it extracts to about a huge 125MB. Bigger than I expected. Given that bloat I am guessing your hardware has no trouble with a "fat" puppy. That being the case I have decided to use a slightly heavier version of Banksy3 as the base for the experimental Wine/Xfe puppy.

I will use the version that I have been using for a year or more - I call it b3max as it contains some significant extras that the original b3 did not have. One of these extras is peazip which I hope you may find useful as it allows encryption of files. I hope the extra size of this pup does not cause you problems.

I have grafted Wine and Xfe into it, and I have included the .wine config directory in the list of personalisations that are grabbed by the personator scripts. I have not included the Xfe config file, but please let me know if this is a problem, or if there are any other issues that impact on your usage.

Please be aware that this is an experimental version and I have only given it a quick test as I really don't have much experience with Wine. All I have done is to run the "wine clock" from the menu and it seems to be fine.

I call this version "b3maxWX"
The WX stands for "Wine / Xfe"

Here are the download links:
EDIT : Instead of downloading this version there is a newer version a couple of posts further down.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/d8kz6mft9ebmbdm/b3maxWXgeneric.iso
http://www.mediafire.com/download/09c7cedkep9db9e/b3maxWXgeneric.iso-md5.txt
EDIT : Instead of downloading this version there is a newer version a couple of posts further down.

I do have some questions for you:

1) Wine is about 125 meg. If this builtin size creates problems would it be ok to have a b3 version without Wine inbuilt and just load it from pet as necessary? I could still leave the personalisations that allow the Wine config to be grabbed at personalisation time. Hopefully the builtin size will not be a problem (although overall iso size does affect personalisation performance on low ram systems).
2) The PPM version of Wine asks for dependencies of Zenity (two versions for some reason) and mpg123. Did you add these dependencies when you loaded Wine - and do you consider them necessary for your usage of Wine? I have left them out so far as Wine seems to start ok without them.
3) When I run wine for the first time I get error messages about "Mono" and "Gecko" packages being missing. Do you see these same messages and are they a problem for you? It gave the choice of ignoring the problem or installing the packages from the web but I just ignored them.
4) Xfe starts up in the single pane mode. Any changes to that would probably require that the xfe config file be grabbed at personalisation time but I have not currently set that up. Please let me know how well it works for you. Are you ok with running it in default mode?

Thanks for any testing and feedback.

cheers!
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Last edited by greengeek on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 02:40; edited 1 time in total
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4293
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016, 06:14    Post subject:  

@ greengeek

1. "...I am guessing your hardware has no trouble with a "fat" puppy."
Correct.

2. "I hope the extra size of this pup does not cause you problems."
No problem, my desktop has 8GB RAM.

3. "I have not included the Xfe config file"
OUCH, that causes problems, there are configurations I normally make that aren't including in the personalizations.

4. " this is an experimental version and I have only given it a quick test as I really don't have much experience with Wine."
WINE seems to be working just fine.
I normally use the winefile command, and that's performing as it aught.
I'm able to use it to run the portable version of "Acerose Password Vault" that's held on a Flash Drive partition mounted using the pmounter command.

Re your questions to me:

5. "Wine is about 125 meg. If this builtin size creates problems...
No problems created.

6. " I have left them out so far as Wine seems to start ok without them."
No problem, WINE is working fine for me.

7. "When I run wine for the first time I get error messages about "Mono" and "Gecko" packages being missing. Do you see these same messages and are they a problem for you?"
Yes, but no problem.
I chose to install them, and WINE then worked just fine.
I already knew that it doesn't matter whether these are installed or not; WINE will work just fine regardless.

8. "Any changes to that would probably require that the xfe config file be grabbed at personalisation time but I have not currently set that up. Please let me know how well it works for you."
Xfe is working OK, but I'd rather have the personal config preferences applied.

9. "Are you ok with running it in default mode?"
No, this is not OK, could you include the necessary?
And thank you VERY MUCH for all you've done so far. Very Happy
Banksy3 is FABULOUS.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4662
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar 2016, 01:37    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander,

at the bottom of this post you will find download links for the new version (RC2) of b3maxWX. This has the added ability to grab the xfe config directory.

However, before you switch to that version I would be keen to take you through a quick tutorial that shows how you it is possible to manually solve the problem of the missing "xfe config" without waiting for a remaster. This may be valuable because it will show you the manual method I referred to in an earlier post - I think you may find this method useful at some time in the future so it may be worth going through this academic exercise just to get familiar with what can be achieved. (This method does not require any modification of the /root/isolator/1-b3distillor script that was daunting you before). It might look complex at first glance but I bet you find it easy to understand after you do it once:

1) Boot from the first version of b3maxWX (the one that lacks the ability to grab xfe config)

2) Start xfe and configure it the way you want (maybe dual panes or whatever...). Then close xfe and identify that a new hidden directory has been created - called /root/.config/xfe

3) Make any other personalisations you want - eg wifi connection etc. (You don't actually need to do this step for the sake of the tutorial but I just mention it so that the CD you create could have ALL of your normal personalisations if you want the whole nine yards)

4) Click on the script /root/isolator/1-b3distillor and let it do it's thing. It will create a new directory called /tmp/banksydistillor.
- Have a look inside that directory and open the directory called root.
- Click on the "eye" icon and you will see a hidden directory called .config
- Have a look inside that .config directory and look for a directory called "xfe". It should be missing. Just not there at all. This is because the old version of the distillor script has not asked for the xfe config file to be brought across.
- However - this is where the manual process becomes handy. You could now grab the fully configured xfe directory (mentioned in step 2 above) from your normal /root/.config folder and copy the contents into the distillor directory where it is missing.
ie: Manually copy /root/.config/xfe into /tmp/banksydistillor/root/.config

5) Once you have copied the xfe config directory click on the /root/isolator/2-b3compressor script and the distillor directory will be assembled into your new personalised sfs which will appear as /tmp/personalsettings_xxxx_banksy3.sfs
- This new personalised sfs WILL contain the xfe config - because you manually put it in there.
(so what we have done is use a manual method to overcome the limitations of the personator scripts)

You could now use this personalsettings sfs to replace a previous version (in a frugal installation...) or you could proceed to the next step which builds the full iso:

6) Click on the /root/isolator/3-b3isolator script and allow it to build the new iso which will appear in the /tmp folder.
Note that this new iso will contain the main b3maxWX sfs and also the corrected personalsettings sfs which contains the xfe config directory.
Unfortunately the old distillor script will still be part of the b3maxWX sfs, but at least you will have an iso that is personalised with your xfe config.

7) If you want to you can now click on the /root/isolator/4-cdcreator script and burn the iso straight to cd...

Sorry if this seems rather longwinded - it's easy for me as I have done it many times to overcome small defects that became obvious as I progressed through various iterations of banksy. I still find it useful for quirky personalisations when I don't have time to remaster the main b3max sfs scripts.

Anyway - here are the download links for the updated b3maxWX version:

EDIT : This b3maxWX version is really only of interest to Sylvander.
Other users may prefer a more generic version (without xfe and Wine) that captures ALL personalisations as available here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=899307#899307


b3maxWX for Sylvanders original testing:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/da5vd1329nnvvaw/b3maxWXgeneric_RC2.iso
http://www.mediafire.com/download/34xhkc8aq56pbvy/b3maxWXgeneric_RC2.iso-md5.txt

I hope we can get close to something that works well for your needs.
cheers!
.

Last edited by greengeek on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 14:06; edited 1 time in total
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4293
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar 2016, 09:01    Post subject:  

@ greengeek

1. I'm well aware that text explanations of how to do stuff can look complex, and yet be quite simple to do.
I found your instructions quite simple to implement, although I'd never be able to memorize everything and carry them through without your text to guide me.

2. I followed your manual steps to make the new/personalized ISO [with Xfe config's included], and burn it to CD-RW disk.
That was successful.
When I used that new disk to boot into b3maxWX+ it booted just fine, and the Xfe config's were included. Very Happy
I'm a happy old dog. Wink
Thank you for all you've done.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4662
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar 2016, 09:28    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander, you're welcome. Thanks for giving banksy a try - I'm glad its working ok for your needs. I do have a couple of caveats though - hope they're not a deal breaker:
1) b3 is based on the non-PAE version of Slacko 5.6 so will not reference the whole 8G of your RAM.
2) Linux seems to be suffering something of the fate that became of Microsoft - in that security holes are found, then supposedly plugged with ongoing updates (such as wget, bash, ssl, ssh etc etc). I do not feel able to maintain banksy in accordance with the latest and greatest of every security update. Partly that is because I may not know they exist, partly because I may not always know how to implement them, and partly because i do not always believe they are necessary.

There have been instances where a newly released patch has been found to be an even greater risk than the original version - so I prefer to stay off the update roundabout unless i perceive a really significant threat.

I also try to stay away from stuff like webRTC and teamviewer - I don't like remote control unless it's necessary for a specific short term purpose..

I understand your desire to maintain security so I thought I better mention these issues. Personally I feel reasonably secure as a result of the "readonly" nature and "non-persistence" of each banksy session - but that only minimises certain risks - it does not eliminate risk "within session".

I also listen to the caution that other Puppians have made of "do not use Puppy as a server accessible by internet". That is a whole other kettle of fish that needs a more cautious approach than Puppy in it's current form can offer. It is a topic beyond my current pay grade..

Finally - I have a collection of pets that I find useful when I need to extend banksy's abilities, so let me know if you find it lacking in any way - I may already have solutions. In particular if you find the old version of Firefox insufficient (I very seldom have issues with it) I recommend OscarTalks versions of Slimjet browser (the one compatible with Slackware 14.0 packages)

Thanks for the positive feedback. Be sure to let me know of any hitches and glitches please.
cheers!
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4293
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar 2016, 12:29    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
Be sure to let me know of any hitches and glitches please.

Will do.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4293
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 04:53    Post subject:  

Hey greengeek....
I woke up this morning with an idea for Banksy.

I hope it isn't impossible, or stupid.

Here it is:
1. What if...
It were possible to have Banksy operate initially just like any other Puppy in regard to cutomizing, so that it would be real easy make ANY kind of personalizations.

2. And only then make the necessary changes [using a pet file?] to make it into a proper Banksy.

3. And then make the ISO and burn the CD.

4. And would it be possible to undo the Banks-fication [to make ANY further new customizations] and then re-do the Banksy-fication once more?

CRAZY? or NOT? Rolling Eyes
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4662
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 03:14    Post subject:  

Hi Sylvander,

I guess the first question is what constitutes a "proper Banksy"?

In my view there are two aims for Banksy:
1) Only capture the minimum personalisations that are desired - in order to minimise the risk of inadvertently (and permananently) capturing malware or capturing damage from poorly constructed software.
2) Utilise the personalisations in a readonly .sfs format so that their integrity is more robustly preserved than in the .2fs or .3fs savefile format and is not altered during a session.

If I were to find some way to incorporate your idea I would have to allow the user the opportunity to take the risk of capturing everything of their session - good or bad. In my opinion this is not necessarily wise for newbies - they don't understand the potential risks of loading any and every .pet and then permanently capturing the results (such as CUPS failure or duplicated and incompatible libraries etc).

However - I do see merit in giving the user the choice.

As an alternative have you considered the use of the "multisession CD" concept as the best way to capture snapshots of your modified system? I haven't used it but it appears to offer the option you want of preserving all session changes.

I will look at ways of offering the choices you desire - I am aware that Ted Dog (i think it was) and also mikeb had methods for saving all session changes as a readonly personal sfs so I will try to find their methods and see if they can be applied to Banksy.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4293
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 04:38    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
...have you considered the use of the "multisession CD"

Yes indeed.
A multi-session-DVD+RW was the number-1 mehod I used [now number-2 = tahr-6.0-ce_pae, which is too big for purpose and too slow to load] until Banksy3 CD-RW became my number-1.
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