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The time now is Wed 15 Aug 2018, 07:36
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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Banksy 3 - aka "The Personator"
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 23 May 2018, 08:03    Post subject:  

OK...
Easy-Peasy...JOB DONE. Very Happy
As per your instructions.
Typing this from my new Banksy3 CD-RW ---> Firefox ESR 17.0.8.
i.e.
1. Additional "Palemoon 27.6.2 (32 bit)" installed. [no problems]

2. Replaced old "/opt/b3personator/b3burnimp" with latest copy downloaded today and unpacked. [no problems]

3. Placed blanked CD-RW in optical drive ready for burning and clicked on b3impersonator icon on desktop. [new CD-RW burned with no problems]
Does the program automatically finalise the burn, so no more can be burned unless first blanked?

It's amazing how easy the doing of this is, provided you know how.

The newly installed [additional] Palemoon appears to work just fine [at banking website for example], and so does the existing Firefox, so I now have a choice of two functioning Browsers.

I'm beginning to think it might be a good idea to use this as my number-1 Puppy.
I normally don't save any session changes to Slacko anyway.
Although if I did make any changes in Banksy3, it would involve a simple re-master which is more time-consuming I guess, than simply/quickly saving changes, but then it IS more secure.
Banksy3 provides extra choice I suppose.
Any thoughts?

It's a FABULOUS thing? Very Happy
GOOD WORK.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5121
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Wed 23 May 2018, 13:56    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
OK...
Easy-Peasy...JOB DONE. Very Happy
As I have said before - many thanks Sylvander for giving it a try and persisting with this. You are the best tester anyone could ask for Exclamation

Quote:
3. Placed blanked CD-RW in optical drive ready for burning and clicked on b3impersonator icon on desktop. [new CD-RW burned with no problems]
Does the program automatically finalise the burn, so no more can be burned unless first blanked?
As far as i can recall I have only ever used CDR's for the burn - and the programme does finalise (and fixate) those. I simply don't know how it handles CDRW. (However if you feel like more testing..... Twisted Evil )

Quote:
It's amazing how easy the doing of this is, provided you know how.
Thanks, thats nice to hear. My aim was to make it easy for newbies to get a puppy running with consistent personalised behaviour - without having a savefile that is corruptible.

Quote:
Although if I did make any changes in Banksy3, it would involve a simple re-master which is more time-consuming I guess, than simply/quickly saving changes, but then it IS more secure.
Banksy3 provides extra choice I suppose.
Any thoughts?
Yes i find the "impersonator" stuff quicker and easier than remastering - although it needs to be said that this method is not the equal of remastering. This method makes it simple to ADD personalisations quickly, but remastering is a better option if you need to REMOVE stuff. For example if you wanted FF17 completely deleted from the main sfs to make things smaller, then remaster is the way to achieve that.

As always - many thanks for testing!
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 23 May 2018, 14:23    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
However if you feel like more testing.....

OK, so what would I need to do?
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5121
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Wed 23 May 2018, 15:37    Post subject:  

I think a useful CDRW test would be like this:

- Boot a personalised banksy from CDRW
- Add the new b3burnimp into /opt/b3personator
- Add some personalisations that identify this as a second attempt at personalisation eg: maybe a document placed in /root and called "personal2" would be sufficient to indicate whether or not the original CDRW succeeds in being overwritten.
- Click the impersonator icon on the desktop and see what happens.

I can imagine some possible outcomes:

1) The impersonator script (displayed in terminal) throws up some error saying the CDRW cannot be updated (most likely situation)

2) The script burns to CDRW successfully, including the "personal2" file - which would become visible after the next boot.

3) The script tries to burn to CDRW but this fails for some reason and the CDRW becomes unbootable.

Hopefully you have more than one CDRW and don't risk losing your original personalisations...

I need to get my skates on and release an updated b3imp_generic iso.
There are a couple I did not release yet so the newest will probably be RC8 or thereabouts.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Thu 24 May 2018, 03:59    Post subject:  

Completed latest test.
RESULT:
No changes were recorded to the CD-RW.

METHOD:
1. Booted my latest Banksy3.

2. Removed the Banks3 CD-RW, placed a blank CD-RW in the drive, and clicked "b3impersonator" link on desktop to burn the session to make a 2nd copy of my latest Banksy3 CD-RW.
That completed OK.

3. Rebooted, and tested this 2nd latest Banksy3 CD-RW.
It booted fine, and functioned well.
e.g. Palemoon worked at my banking website.

4. Made new "/root/Personal2" file with some text content.

5. Tried to burn a 3rd copy of this latest Banksy3 session, but it failed to burn anything to the 2nd/filled/not-blanked/booted CD-RW.
i.e. The CD-RW that was used to load the session.

6. How do I know this?
a. The burning program tried to find a blank CD-RW by opening and closing the drawer.
b. The session terminated too early to have burned much of anything.
c. When I rebooted the CD-RW, There was no "/root/Personal2" file existing.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5121
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Thu 24 May 2018, 13:44    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
4. Made new "/root/Personal2" file with some text content.

5. Tried to burn a 3rd copy of this latest Banksy3 session, but it failed to burn anything to the 2nd/filled/not-blanked/booted CD-RW.
i.e. The CD-RW that was used to load the session.

6. How do I know this?
a. The burning program tried to find a blank CD-RW by opening and closing the drawer.
b. The session terminated too early to have burned much of anything.
c. When I rebooted the CD-RW, There was no "/root/Personal2" file existing.
Hi Sylvander - if I interpret your results correctlly then that indicates that this is working as you would like - is that correct?

in other words - you were able to create the personalisations to CDRW and use them successfully, but there was no way to accidentally overwrite those changes using impersonator. (same behaviour as a CDR that has been burnt, finalised and fixated)

However - perhaps I am misunderstanding? Did you WANT impersonator to overwrite (and modify) the CDRW without you manually blanking it?
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Thu 24 May 2018, 16:38    Post subject:  

1.
greengeek wrote:
...this is working as you would like - is that correct?

in other words - you were able to create the personalisations to CDRW and use them successfully, but there was no way to accidentally overwrite those changes using impersonator. (same behaviour as a CDR that has been burnt, finalised and fixated)

Correct.
Plus there's no way for someone to hack into a running session, and save malicious changes by burning them to disk, correct?

2.
greengeek wrote:
However - perhaps I am misunderstanding? Did you WANT impersonator to overwrite (and modify) the CDRW without you manually blanking it?

NO!
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5121
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Fri 25 May 2018, 03:06    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
Plus there's no way for someone to hack into a running session, and save malicious changes by burning them to disk, correct?
True. Having an unwritable disk is a good security feature. (especially if you eject it during online activities)
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 25 May 2018, 04:08    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
...especially if you eject it during online activities.

It would be good if the OS reminded the user to do that right after booting to the desktop.
I keep forgetting to do it.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5121
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Fri 25 May 2018, 04:21    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
It would be good if the OS reminded the user to do that right after booting to the desktop.
I keep forgetting to do it.
Unzip the attached script and chuck it into the /root/Startup directory.

(You can test it first by just unzipping it anywhere and clicking it. Doesn't do anything except pop up a reminder that the user must click to dismiss. No harm done)
Smile
zzzzzCDejectPROMPT.gz
Description 
gz

 Download 
Filename  zzzzzCDejectPROMPT.gz 
Filesize  117 Bytes 
Downloaded  44 Time(s) 
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 25 May 2018, 06:08    Post subject:  

Job DONE. Very Happy

1. Booted into my latest Banksy3, downloaded your file to my Banksy folder on my Flash drive, extracted it using Xfe, copied it into /root/Startup.

2. Tried to run it using ROX, but it complained that no program was set to open a file of this type.
I think I fixed that by setting the EXE attributes to the file.
Then it ran OK.

3. Remastered, rebooted, and the reminder was displayed once at the desktop. Very Happy

Thank you. Very Happy
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5121
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Fri 25 May 2018, 15:18    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
2. Tried to run it using ROX, but it complained that no program was set to open a file of this type.
I think I fixed that by setting the EXE attributes to the file.
Then it ran OK.
My apologies, I thought I had made the script executable before gzipping it but it appears not.

Quote:
3. Remastered, rebooted, and the reminder was displayed once at the desktop. Very Happy
Excellent - glad it worked.

Just one question: "remastered" or "impersonated" ??
Very Happy
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 25 May 2018, 16:31    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
Just one question: "remastered" or "impersonated" ??
Very Happy

"impersonated".
Which in my mind means "Remastered".
Else, what's the meaning of "impersonated"?
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5121
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Fri 25 May 2018, 17:15    Post subject:  

Just a minor difference in semantics - although it is significant to my mind because the layering of banksy is different to normal pups:

"Remastering" means to expand, modify, then repackage the main puppy sfs (eg puppy_b3imp_banksy3.sfs)

"Impersonating" means letting the impersonator script capture your modifications and repackaging them into the personal sfs which sits on top of and is separate to the main puppy sfs. (ie the personal sfs is the "top layer" which overrides the main sfs like a cloak)

This is more obvious when working with an HDD frugal installation - where the separate puppy sfs and personal sfs can be seen. When working with CDs the separate sfs files are not so visible unless you are mounting the iso for the purposes of looking what's in there.

Other pups do not have the "personal" sfs layer - therefore they force you to use one of the following options:

1) Create a writable save file or folder. (insecure)

2) Remaster the main puppy sfs that was released by the dev. (tricky to understand and achieve)
I don't generally like that method as it means you end up with main sfs files that are named the same as the sfs originally released by the dev, but having different contents.

The way banksy is set up is to allow the user to avoid remastering (because that is too hard), avoid having writable save files (because that is too insecure and unstable) yet still be able to create a "locked in" personalised puppy easily. The personalisations are "read only" and easy to achieve - leaving the main banksy sfs untouched.

Clear as mud.

In other words - you did not "remaster" - because you did not need to go through all that unnecessary drama. You simply used the desktop icon to "impersonate" your running system and copy it direct to CD. So much easier!!

The main banksy sfs is unchanged, but your personal sfs now contains the new personalisations concatenated with the previous ones.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Sat 26 May 2018, 08:25    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
Clear as mud..

No, you explain it well, and I believe I understand.
And "Impersonating" rather than "Remastering" seems to me to be a very good way of achieving the goal.

Mind you, if you were to test my understanding by asking me questions, would I pass the test?
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