Suggestions and my opinion of Puppylinux (x-precise version)

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
Post Reply
Message
Author
Tenner
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon 17 Nov 2014, 23:06

Suggestions and my opinion of Puppylinux (x-precise version)

#1 Post by Tenner »

OK, I can;t be bothered to be polite, so i'm gonna say some things that really need to be said.

Puppylinux is awesome, but there are major problems which have never been ironed out...

Here's some serious suggestions that need to be looked at.

XP is an old operating systems and if you want ex xp users to use puppy Linux, implementing these suggestions, will also bring in the xp crew.


1. There is no way to install programs easily. You can download them in the package manager yeah, but you need programming knowledge to actually get the damn thing to work.

Why hasn't somebody created an app installer?

You can install app, but they never turn up in the start menu, I would have thought if I download something, then it should show up somewhere.

2. the default download, has a few bits of bloatware which most people do not use. it would be better to have a bare bones iso and then add your own apps later. either by download or what not.

3. installed apps shouldn't really take up space in your save file

4. there should be an app, that can encrypt separate USB pen drives.
something that can lock files on any usb pen drive.

5 making a custom puppy should be easier.

6. you really need to sort out the sound problems with certain computers.
the only reason I cannot use puppylinux full time is because I speak with clients on skype, and your sound drivers don't work on the Alienware m17 r4.

I have a few other suggestions, but I suppose even the ones I have mentioned will never be sorted.

p310don
Posts: 1492
Joined: Tue 19 May 2009, 23:11
Location: Brisbane, Australia

#2 Post by p310don »

The usual Linux response, if you don't like it, you can receive a full refund...
1. There is no way to install programs easily. You can download them in the package manager yeah, but you need programming knowledge to actually get the damn thing to work.

Why hasn't somebody created an app installer?

You can install app, but they never turn up in the start menu, I would have thought if I download something, then it should show up somewhere.
On the other hand, you could just use the Puppy Package Manager and install apps from there. Works great for me. I guess you could call it an app installer if you wanted to.

What are you trying to install, and from where?
2. the default download, has a few bits of bloatware which most people do not use. it would be better to have a bare bones iso and then add your own apps later. either by download or what not.


This is a part of Puppy's original design philosophy of having just about everything you might need, right out of the box. I don't think there is much "bloatware" in Puppy. There is stuff that few people will use, but it is usually tiny. There are barebones versions out there if you want to install all of your own apps to suit yourself. Further to that, you could look at Woof to make your own better Puppy.
3. installed apps shouldn't really take up space in your save file
Well how else would it save what you've installed? On XP, and all windows and other Linuxes you'll remember that the more you install, the less space you'll have.
In Puppy you can install SFS files which don't fill up your save file if that's critical to you.
4. there should be an app, that can encrypt separate USB pen drives.
something that can lock files on any usb pen drive.
I don't actually know for sure, but I think there is.
5 making a custom puppy should be easier.
I'm pretty crap at stuff sometimes, but I've done it. It takes some work, it doesn't just happen.
6. you really need to sort out the sound problems with certain computers.
the only reason I cannot use puppylinux full time is because I speak with clients on skype, and your sound drivers don't work on the Alienware m17 r4.
That is always a problem with the Linux Kernel. All the drivers are in the kernel. It is a great system that works on *MOST* stuff. But you'll probably always be able to find some bit of hardware that doesn't work out of the box. But hey, have you ever tried installing windows from scratch? NOTHING WORKS. Nothing. Nothing at all. Windows is complete rubbish on any machine from a virgin install. Hardware manufacturers make drivers to make their stuff work on windows, and many install CDs / DVDs that come with PCs have those drivers built in to suit that machine. Makes windows seem better than it is. In reality, Puppy, and most Linux is suprisingly excellent at hardware detection considering there isn't support from many manufacturers.

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#3 Post by starhawk »

p130don, I see you and I were typing at once, and you got done first... here's my response tho.

In order...

(1) Download package, double-click to run PetGet (PPM) -- current versions also allow the use of *.deb packages across all official Puppy versions (and many of the derivatives) and *.txz packages within Slacko Puppy.

(2) Aside from the fact that this contradicts #1, the only real 'bloatware' is Abiword. Don't use it. The sad fact is that properly functional alternatives (LibreOffice, basically -- there aren't many!) are really too large for Puppy...

(3) Agreed, but there's no convenient way around that with PETs. SFS files, on the other hand, inherently don't have that problem BUT they're way harder to use with a 'full' (traditional Linux/Win style) install...

(4) Tinfoil hat material IMO. You don't need encryption unless (a) you have something to confess, or (b) you have several enemies that are computer savvy.

(5) This has been addressed. sc0ttman, one of our devs, has a tool called 'Woofy' that's an enhanced remaster script. Take a look --> http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57037

(6) I feel your pain here -- drivers are a pain in the butt sometimes. I have a particular Dell laptop, it's very old (Pentium 2) that I play with when I'm bored. LOL. The sound driver in Puppy broke IIRC between 412 and 420 -- it's loud and proud in 412, but absolutely anything later and it's mute as a particularly quiet rock. Count your blessings tho -- last time I used Ubuntu (it was a while ago, admittedly) your wireless driver options consisted of (a) ndiswrapper + Win *.inf, or (b) no wireless! That's one of the things that won me over to Puppy was the inclusion of a fat pile of WiFi drivers... amongst others... *ahem* post a thread in Beginner's Help, though, and we'll see if we can't get you sorted out. Do please remember to include lots of juicy info about your system and its specs...

User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#4 Post by bigpup »

This is Linux not Windows or Mac.
There is a learning curve.
Learn you must.

Part of your observations are based on your lack of knowledge about how Linux works and how Puppy works.

Nothing you have stated are real problems after you get a good understanding of how to do things in Puppy.

Puppy pet packages are program packages specifically made for Puppy.
Download.
left click on it.
It installs.

How much easier could it be.

Your sound problems are probably fixable.
Make a new topic about it with as much detail info as you can.
What version of Puppy?
Computer specs?
What does Hardware info identify as the sound hardware?
What you have tried?
You do what?
You see what?
Last edited by bigpup on Tue 18 Nov 2014, 00:48, edited 1 time in total.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#5 Post by bigpup »

the only reason I cannot use puppylinux full time is because I speak with clients on skype, and your sound drivers don't work on the Alienware m17 r4.
Have you looked at this about using Skype?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94807

The newest version of Puppy.
Have you tried using Tahrpup 6.0 CE?
Quickpet (icon on the desktop) has a version of Skype you can install.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

User avatar
mikeb
Posts: 11297
Joined: Thu 23 Nov 2006, 13:56

#6 Post by mikeb »

1,2,3 and 5 are solved with the ability to handle multiple sfs packages... might happen one day .... if we nag enough lol Small, customisable and 'just works' are the result... Some puplet builders have gone for this in various approaches to give a taste of whats possible.

sound...seems like alsa startup has been broken since puppy 4 and is a hit and miss affair...I took it back to the way alsa intended it to be and how it was in puppy 2 and that seems to help a lot...... so scripts rather than drivers problem....its just been overcomplicated and the ovecomplication of driver module loading is no help. KISS needs applying in various areas...makes it faster too....my lucid boots in the time it takes the standard one to get through the first line......a work in progress but hey shows the potential.

mike

User avatar
technosaurus
Posts: 4853
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 01:24
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Contact:

Re: Suggestions and my opinion of Puppylinux (x-precise version)

#7 Post by technosaurus »

Tenner wrote:1. There is no way to install programs easily. You can download them in the package manager yeah, but you need programming knowledge to actually get the damn thing to work.

Why hasn't somebody created an app installer?

You can install app, but they never turn up in the start menu, I would have thought if I download something, then it should show up somewhere.[/code]
PPM does all of this.
Downloaded pets are just 1 click. (foreign packages like .deb and rpm _need_ to have extra steps)

Code: Select all

2. the default download, has a few bits of bloatware which most people do not use. it would be better to have a bare bones iso and then add your own apps later. either by download or what not.[/quote]
Most apps are weighed based on usefullness vs. weight.  Your bloat is another users show stopper app.
[quote]3. installed apps shouldn't really take up space in your save file[/quote]
Some puppy versions already allow installing sfs packages which don't (mostly reserved for larger apps that would take up a significant amount of your save file)
What then, store in RAM and lose it on reboot, force the user to do a full install or increase the system requirements to allow for the slow process of rebuilding a read only file system?
This is what a remaster is for - to shift them from the save file to the sfs ... I don't recall if the package files get removed from the save file though since I always run without one, but if not, that is an easy fix.
[quote]4. there should be an app, that can encrypt separate USB pen drives.
something that can lock files on any usb pen drive.[/quote]
bcrypt (probably one of the "bloatware" you mentioned)
[quote]5 making a custom puppy should be easier.[/quote]
2 steps: Install the apps you want, Remaster ... Which step should be removed?
[quote]6. you really need to sort out the sound problems with certain computers.
the only reason I cannot use puppylinux full time is because I speak with clients on skype, and your sound drivers don't work on the Alienware m17 r4.[/quote]
This is a bug report.  Here is something that will help you on any distro.
If you have a distro where it works run lsmod on that system and then the on the distro where it doesn't.
[quote]I have a few other suggestions, but I suppose even the ones I have mentioned will never be sorted.[/quote]Most already have been.  #6 has still not been fully reported.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

stemsee

Re: Suggestions and my opinion of Puppylinux (x-precise version)

#8 Post by stemsee »

technosaurus wrote:increase the system requirements to allow for the slow process of rebuilding a read only file system?
This is what a remaster is for - to shift them from the save file to the sfs ... I don't recall if the package files get removed from the save file though since I always run without one, but if not, that is an easy fix.
sfs-direct-remaster on a standard pup takes about 4 minutes!

User avatar
mikeb
Posts: 11297
Joined: Thu 23 Nov 2006, 13:56

#9 Post by mikeb »

sfs-direct-remaster on a standard pup takes about 4 minutes!
definitely something that varies considerably depending on size and equipment and also if such as lzma/xz is used.

There were some interesting tests done of mksquashfs using gz at lower compression to reduce compression time by several magnitudes with only a relatively small final size penalty. More for those who get the urge to remaster often as to me its time to make a cup of tea. lzma/xz does also slow down reads too but mostly noticeable on older machines.

Far more time is spent making sure nothing is missed...which always fails lol.... the one drawback of rebuilding the whole system rather taking a modular approach.

mike

User avatar
technosaurus
Posts: 4853
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 01:24
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Contact:

#10 Post by technosaurus »

I think it is time to switch to lz4 for squashfs. The high compression mode achieves near gzip compression with much faster decompression (meaning file access will be faster) There is even an ultra high compression mode that could be used for the release version. Maybe eventually we could skip the whole squash+write-able file system+union and use a single btrfs fs with compression enabled.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

User avatar
mikeb
Posts: 11297
Joined: Thu 23 Nov 2006, 13:56

#11 Post by mikeb »

you mean slitaz fashion.... what sort of boot times and shutdown would that be and how much space does un unpacked recent puppy use now?

I assume you were saying lz4 compressing at gzip speeds?

Must admit I never bother to save during a session using sfs saves.

Add on software...just load add to ram then?...

This of course requires a few gigs of ram and decent cpu..... no aufs though which has an appeal though I do find having a union convenient and runs fine even with 20-30 layers on a pentium 3.

mike

Post Reply