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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Updated English version of puppy
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct 2014, 09:06    Post subject:  Updated English version of puppy  

Hi guys, I've been compiling apps for Slacko for a couple of weeks and nobody said thanks, or it works, nothing. Plus I think I can do a bit better than just compile apps, So I'm looking looking at the latest slacko's release libicudata.so.51.2 is 22MB,

Barry always refrained from International puppies until woof, Then it was too late. Basically my idea is pick a version, remove the bloat manually and release it. I will compile as much as possible. But the one thing is that Firefox/Seamonkey these days after weeks are very slow even when you clear the history, So I'm thinking Chrome browser that is 40mb larger but is 30 times faster.
So which authentic version of puppy do you want upgraded in English ?.
Plus a bit of user response will help.
ttuuxxx

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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5811
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct 2014, 10:29    Post subject:  

Jeff
Maybe surprisingly, but I think an English Puppy is a good idea. (That doesn't mean a multilangauge Puppy is a bad idea.)
- It would be easier to maintain for a small group of people.
- The codebase could be simpler.
- It runs faster. (ie. grep runs MUCH faster in complex task when LANG=C.)
- We could all help out the users because we are forced to use the same terms.
- iso gets smaller.
- No bugs related to NLS.

Seldom thanks and small amount of feedback is the common way. No reason to think of something else. We better do this because we like it, not because other should like us...

We haven't always agreed on what is the best way to perfection, but that will not get in my way to help out.
Good luck
Sigmund

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct 2014, 13:42    Post subject:  

Currently Ubuntu and slackware puppies are in the works.
The Debian puppy is left behind since pemasu stopped developing it 10 months ago Wink

Regarding feedback, puppies are too many and too good already, so everybody is happy with what they have Very Happy Razz

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct 2014, 02:00    Post subject:  

I'm thinking Debian woof to start with. I've always liked the speed of Debian, I've always noticed it to be faster than all the other puppy woof releases. Just like how the first version of puppy was built.Then I'll quickly veer away from Debian,

Goals List
Zero Debian packages after a few releases.
Latest Glibc, Gcc, Glib,GTK,Pango etc
Abiword compiled without Goffice
Gnumeric/Goffice replaced with mtcelledit saving around 4.5MB
Mtpaint replaced with a small version of gimp 2.4 Around 4.5 MB extra when you remove Mtpaint.
Leafpad replaced with beaver
Independent uninstall PPM cut-down script, I did that in 2.14X. If I can get the keys to http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/ If not I'll make a HTML page with the latest packages I compile and people can Download them directly from using the Html page.
Also /usr/lib/chromium/libpdf.so in chrome is 22MB, I could package that as a extra, since this puppy will also have a pdf viewer. Why waste 22mb?
For now I'll start downloading woof and get started. Should I release any versions before I replace Gcc/ glibc? Man I'm taking on a mammoth task, but what the hay its puppy moving forward on its own four paws. I will need some help, probably with Kernel compiling and Xorg options, I'll probably use the same kernel and Xorg in debian, due to like I said I like the speed of it, but a recompile would be in order, I think Barry left notes on the folders, its been like 4 years almost since I used woof, I might make One "bare bones" Debian for users to make Puppy Derivatives off of, But I won't be supporting it, I'll have to stay focused on this release.
ttuuxxx

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct 2014, 08:06    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
For now I'll start downloading woof and get started.
<snip>
I will need some help, probably with Kernel compiling


Is it BK's original woof2 or an up-to-date woof-CE (testing).
If the latter, patches are always welcome Wink
The kernel-kit in woof-CE makes kernel building pretty simple.

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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1927
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct 2014, 08:43    Post subject:  

If you're already settling on Debian, I think it's a great chance to make a 64-bit dpup. I really hope you're going to leave build scripts behind when you're done compiling all these packages. Rolling Eyes

It's interesting, how history repeats itself in Puppy land.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct 2014, 09:33    Post subject:  

Iguleder wrote:
I really hope you're going to leave build scripts behind when you're done compiling all these packages. Rolling Eyes

Which is reminding me... you may want to check (jamesbond's) woof-next branch in woof-CE. Builds a debian puppy in ~10 minuts!
Is a bit different than traditional woof puppies, but if you are going to change it any way...

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct 2014, 10:14    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
Iguleder wrote:
I really hope you're going to leave build scripts behind when you're done compiling all these packages. Rolling Eyes

Which is reminding me... you may want to check (jamesbond's) woof-next branch in woof-CE. Builds a debian puppy in ~10 minuts!
Is a bit different than traditional woof puppies, but if you are going to change it any way...

Wow thanks for that, I've been away pretty much since I had my daughter 3.5yrs ago, Really When you have young kids, you don't have extra time, Now that she is older and loves Dora the Explorer, well now I have some extra time, Plus since my injury at work 5 months ago, I'm still healing, but can't do as much work as usual, So that gives me extra time Smile, I'm back at work but on desk duties which I hate,
ttuuxxx

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5479
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct 2014, 16:19    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx,

Great to see you working on a newer/different version of Puppy. Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Cool

Your stuff usually just works, so most people just use it and are happy.
Look at it this way. If nothing is said, it must be working very well. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Never think we do not appreciate what you do for Puppy.

A debian puppy would be very good to do.

A few things that I have come to like very much in Puppy.

Video Upgrade Wizard
(check the hardware and offers to install a better driver. Usually the manufactures driver package)

Grub4dos bootloader
Gparted (the latest version)
Firewall status in tray
Video Info GLX
Sys Info
Htop
Getflash install flash player
pMusic
Pburn

This for the home page for any browser you decide to use.
file:///usr/share/doc/home.htm

A 64bit version seems to be very much needed.

Nothing wrong with Fatdog64 or Lighthouse64.

Slacko 64 was, as I understand, the first try at making a 64bit Puppy using Woof-CE.
For the most part it is working, but just never got past alpha stage. 01Micko got side tracked by personal issues and just has not progressed with it.

Ready to help any way I can. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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sszindian


Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Posts: 614
Location: Pennsylvania U.S.

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct 2014, 19:40    Post subject: New Project  

First off ttuuxxx, I know your feelings first-hand!

A few years back I encountered the same response from the puppy community when I wanted to get a 'Cloud Puppy' together... Only ONE forum member answered a question which was how to find the file where I could change a few things. I am NOT a programmer but thought there was a need for this version of puppy (and still do). I hacked away myself trying to use logic instead of programming-skill (which I didn't have) for months trying to figure things out and finally did manage to get a version out that was from a previous puppy version. This was all in hopes that one of the programmers would jump on my simple-version concept and create a wiz-bang-cloud-puppy. 'It didn't happen!'

Anyway, on your choice of what to build this new puppy on... I'm sure anything you choose will be a success, and then some... as I see over the years, you have the push and the knowledge that will make it succeed!

Now, since you asked for opinions?
If I were undertaking a project such as this, my choice would be using the T2 OS (Such as Racy-5.5 has, only the new 8 or 9 version) and keep puppy seperate from the thoughts of the other all-ready-established distros. Racy has always been my favorite for Exceptional Graphic Display - Speed In Executing - Lots Of Various Programs Work In It. And, even with a 3.0 kernel, can hold its own with the latest-greatest of today.

For what it's worth, I wish you again, 'The Best' on the new project and I'll be glad to help wherever my limited-knowledge can!!!

>>>---Indian------>

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 840
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct 2014, 20:01    Post subject: Thanks in advance, and belated thanks for your prior work  

Hi ttuuxxx,

And thanks in advance for whatever you decide to do.
Your Fire Hydrant Pup was almost my first exposure to Puppy, the first Pup I had the courage to customize; and while, from time to time, I'll test-out some other OS, the endeavor which made me an advocate of Puppy Linux and made Puppy Linux the "distro" against which any other has to be evaluated. And your leadership in developing 2.14 Classic demonstrated "how to herd cats". So, you've been missed.
Yes, a 64-bit debian would be a worth-while addition to the Kennel.
I hesitate, but feel compelled, to mention an alternative. I've played some with manjaro, an Arch remaster in which --other than requiring the dedication of an entire partition-- had only one significant flaw: Grub4dos won't boot it. While offering a distro you'll never have to replace, it avoids Arch's "rolling-release = never finished/update at your own risk" syndrome by allowing significant testing of Arch applications before offering them thru its own package manager. [Of course, you can access Arch and Aur repos via packman, if you want]. The reason I hesitate is that the last person who tried to develop an Arch-based Pup lacked your leadership skills. The result was more animosity than product.
Regardless of what you decide to work on, count me in as a testor.

mikesLr
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3468
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct 2014, 21:06    Post subject:  

" Hi guys, I've been compiling apps for Slacko for a couple of weeks
and nobody said thanks, or it works, nothing. "

Doesn't mean that we aren't grateful to see you back here mate.

Cheers...Chris.
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 11 Oct 2014, 03:16    Post subject:  

Hi guys, Thanks for all the nice responses, I was just used to interacting with people on here. Just felt a bit strange.

Anyways here's a pic of my first attempt of woof 2. Lot of the packages are missing, Things like PPM and xarchive weren't working and no Internet, Didn't boot to JWM, I had to manually do the Xorg wizard and xwin jwm, but It did get to a desktop. so that shows promise.
I'm not releasing this one, way too many issues. I'll start working on them.
ttuuxxx
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 11 Oct 2014, 04:53    Post subject:  

Plans for tomorrow is start compiling the backend, starting with libc/kernel
Should I try the latest kernel Linux 3.17? or should I use a older kernel. I would like to see this ending up as a Official home built distro independent version of puppy.I just want a kernel that is good for everyone to boot on, small in size, like series 3, and early 4 was. The main goals of puppy was always about size, That's what I want to bring back, we have higher compression on squash files so in theory we should be able to get a 100MB-120MB distro if we used a older kernel, but puppy wouldn't be bleeding edge anymore, well there's still Slacko and Dpup which could remain bleeding edge. Heck I would be happy just with Vesa. What do you guys think, I would like to hear your views to where this should go and which kernel should I go for.
ttuuxxx

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
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Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 11 Oct 2014, 05:28    Post subject:  

ASRI éducation wrote:
zigbert wrote:
Maybe surprisingly, but I think an English Puppy is a good idea.

I'm obviously not okay.
Cedric (French user)
Crying or Very sad

In the past we always had other people converting/supporting Main puppy release Into French, Chinese etc. But Like I said in slacko just the lib was 22MB, it was the largest lib in slacko, and when your dealing with size issues hard calls have to made. It will probably be more than 22Mb savings.
ttuuxxx

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