Who here can relate to EMF-handicapped

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Minni
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Re: Who here can relate to EMF-handicapped

#31 Post by Minni »

Going under high-powered lines for just a short while is what's probably called "acute" (similar to putting your finger quickly thru a candle flame). It doesn't compare to proximity+prolongedly - even if the latter is relatively weaker.

As for WIFI, many experts warn against it (such as Dr.Magda Havas - see her on YouTube). I also tend to get bad headaches & heart palps in proximity to my radio, and obviously radio is not visual.
Les Kerf wrote:
Minni wrote:I'm trying to smooth the road...

...P.S. I'd appreciate an answer to my original question only...
When we aren't able to smooth the road, sometimes we can at least put springs in the wagon.

I am certainly not qualified to help with your problem, all I can suggest is that when you do start a thread, to make mention that there may be a delay in responding.
Better yet - I just added a notification of such in my signature. (update: but it doesn't seem to be displaying.)
Also, one thing I do know about EMF is that the law of inverse squares does apply. This means that if you double the distance, the EMF drops to 1/4 of the original value. Make the print as large as practical and get as far away from it as you can.s
It's for that reason I most recently got 15" thinkpads, so that I can place it as far from me on the compu-table as I possibly can. But I'm still using external keyboard & external corded mouse, both of which are connected to the green/purple PS2/USB converter tat's plugged into my computer.

For all I know, maybe I would do better with a wireless mouse & keyboard, despite what the experts say. On the other hand, maybe it's risky.

I do know for a fact that when roaming with an AM radio (tuned to white noise) - and enter my computer area, there's a loud buzzing whenever it gets near the computer or the modem. The buzzing represents heavy EMFs. It similarly buzzes near every curly-fluresent lightbulb, as well as digital clocks which are on stoves and elsewhere.

EDIT:
Ted Dog - just now noticed Page 2 of this thread. If you type BUMP in response below, that could remind me to take a look at page 2 of this thread, since right now I'm zonked. I noticed you offered alot of solutions, alot of which I'd read of in past, but there's just so much I can do. Nevertheless, I'll take a look. I'd been aware that there's a EMF-free zone somewhere in a NJ military-security zone, but maybe my memory is off, and it's actually in VA.
Thinkpad R52, Intel Pentium M, 1.73ghz, 795MHz, 2gb RAM
NOTE: Please bear with me if responses are delayed due to computer-related health issues and/or distractions. Thanks!

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Barkin
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Re: Who here can relate to EMF-handicapped

#32 Post by Barkin »

Minni wrote:I'd been aware that there's a EMF-free zone somewhere in a NJ
Unless it's a metal [Faraday] cage : there is no " EMF-free zone" on Earth because of the radio-waves coming from the sun and other stars, [ aurorae and lightning also generate radio-waves 24/7].

The people who allege they have EMF sensitivity, but who are psychogenic, will report that they feel better in the wilderness where they don't see power-cables and radio-masts : ( the sight of such devices makes them anxious and consequently feel unwell ).

The people who allege they have EMF sensitivity but are organically ill , (e.g. autoimmune), will not benefit from moving into the wilderness, as their illness is "real" and endogenous.

People who allege they have EMF sensitivity cannot demonstrate it : in double-blind trials they cannot tell if a device which emits EMF is on or off. If they were sensitive to it they would be able to tell : EMF sensitivity does not exist.

You're barking up the wrong tree looking for an electronic cause of your health problems ...
Steven Novella, M.D. wrote:While people who believe they have EHS are really having symptoms, EHS is a distraction from what is really going on. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that EHS is not a genuine distinct clinical syndrome, or at the very least that it is not caused by exposure to EMF. Continuing to promote EHS as if it is a real medical condition is irresponsible, in inexcusable given the easy access to information that is currently available.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/2153-electromagnetic-hypersensitivity-still-dubious-.html

If I'm wrong and you actually have this superpower you could make a fortune demonstrating it ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi#One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

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mikeb
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#33 Post by mikeb »

Ok so we are talking about voltage spikes and their associated fields.

Switchmode power supplies chop up the mains and that cause the moise you here on the radio...light dimmers were notorious for it and the ensuing interference.

What about lightening storms...they generate far more than any piece of electrical or electronic equipment? Only a nuclear device can top that one.

mike

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Ted Dog
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#34 Post by Ted Dog »

People who allege they have EMF sensitivity cannot demonstrate it : in double-blind trials they cannot tell if a device which emits EMF is on or off. If they were sensitive to it they would be able to tell : EMF sensitivity does not exist.

You are reading into the study more then the Authors. Their tests did not prove a connection. That happens all the time in studies. That is the lack of a finding with the way they tested it. Not that a connection does not occur. Read the full test report they did find something I those self reported EMF suffers had a larger than expected abnormal medical test results. :roll:
Also number of other tests did find a connection but others where not able to reproduce so they investigated the methodology and other found issues witb the methodology. That is not a validation or a rejection just a difference of opinion on what are facts and what value exists.
I do have a background in research in the presentation of data and the securing of raw data as it pertains to research. I had no role in interpretation or publishing of such. I have been floored how data looks one way to me and findings of researchers only once.
There is a market for scientific research. When money flows into studies and contain hard methodology choices ( duration very limited ) the LACK of findings are almost guaranteed. That is what I see here. Eariler broad studies find some correlation which panic electronic manufacturers they support many low cost cherrypicked studies with forced very very limited scope and a short time frame. Those studies produce exactly as wanted NO findings.

Bird Dog
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EMF

#35 Post by Bird Dog »

In my area Catholics do not allow wi-fi in their schools.

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Moat
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#36 Post by Moat »

I'd bet another simple solution/test might be to use a section of metal window screening - say, 18" wide and maybe 28" long... tuck it under the front of the laptop, and circle the remainder up and over the top - clip it up to a good ground/earth. Seems the wire spacing (openings) of typical window screen is pretty close to what a microwave oven's window would use as a shield - my WAG would be that might work to block similar wavelengths (and longer, lower freqs).

Simple, quick and cheap test... possibly?

Probably induce a migraine just looking through the screening, though!

Bob

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RSH
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#37 Post by RSH »

Just because of we do not have any evidence or any suitable testing options to prove if something isn't existing, doesn't mean, it isn't existing.

Most of all things that we nowadays know as "is existing" did exist already, when we didn't know anything about these things.

And for the results of studies and researches:

Do not trust any photography that you didn't modify by yourself!
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Ted Dog
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#38 Post by Ted Dog »

hardest part of science is to have a ton of correlating effects and NOT having a reproducible scientific methodology to prove it. That is when the sharks circle and deep pockets start thowning money at researchers to OWN the knowledge and control the outcomes.
Second favorite is the coat tail research once a scientific methodology works to oncover results everybody studies it.. like coldfusion.

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Barkin
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#39 Post by Barkin »

Ted Dog wrote: I do have a background in research in the presentation of data and the securing of raw data as it pertains to research. I had no role in interpretation or publishing of such. I have been floored how data looks one way to me and findings of researchers only once.
There is a market for scientific research. When money flows into studies and contain hard methodology choices ( duration very limited ) the LACK of findings are almost guaranteed. That is what I see here. Eariler broad studies find some correlation which panic electronic manufacturers they support many low cost cherrypicked studies with forced very very limited scope and a short time frame. Those studies produce exactly as wanted NO findings.
If one single person can demonstrate they have EMF-sensitivity then the Randi million dollar prize is theirs.

No manipulation of raw data , or influence of the cabal of electronic manufacturers, could stop them from picking up a suitcase of cash from Mr Randi.

As yet no-one has won the the Randi million dollar prize, ( other prizes are available if you can prove you have ESP ).

At the risk of stating the obvious : if in a blind-test you cannot tell whether devices capable of emitting EMF are on or off you are not actually sensitive to EMF, and your belief you are sensitive to such things is false.

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Barkin
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Re: EMF

#40 Post by Barkin »

Bird Dog wrote:In my area Catholics do not allow wi-fi in their schools.
Religion and science are mutually exclusive.

( although it could be to restrict the Catholic priests access to paraphiliac-internet-pornography :¬)

starhawk
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#41 Post by starhawk »

Barkin, I respectfully disagree...

Might I point out that Charles Darwin himself was quite fervently religious? (Anglican, IIRC.) I can't find it in Wiki right this second, but I've heard that he actually delayed publishing On The Origin of Species because he knew that the Church wouldn't like it...

...but what I *can* find in Wiki is that the Church's reception was far less heated than he thought ;) I'll leave it to you to read up if you're interested.

Besides -- speaking purely as an unmarried marriage counselor here -- I'm pretty sure that the Bible doesn't actually spell out how long a day is for God Himself -- so it's extremely easy to say that evolution is His Way of moving things along. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.)

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Barkin
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#42 Post by Barkin »

starhawk wrote:Might I point out that Charles Darwin himself was quite fervently religious? (Anglican, IIRC.) I can't find it in Wiki right this second, but I've heard that he actually delayed publishing On The Origin of Species because he knew that the Church wouldn't like it...
My point exactly : his scientific discovery was incompatible with his religion.

The science bit and religion are mutually exclusive: there is no God in science.

starhawk
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#43 Post by starhawk »

You know, I'd point out how you extracted less than half of what I wrote and used it by itself (to the complete and entire exclusion of the rest of everything else there, which is to say, my entire point itself) -- but I'd probably just be wasting my metaphorical breath...

So, instead, you get a remarkably insensitive picture.

Image

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Barkin
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#44 Post by Barkin »

starhawk wrote:You know, I'd point out how you extracted less than half of what I wrote and used it by itself (to the complete and entire exclusion of the rest of everything else there, which is to say, my entire point itself) -- but I'd probably just be wasting my metaphorical breath...

So, instead, you get a remarkably insensitive picture.

Image
To imply that anyone who disagrees with you is mentally-retarded, (rather than engage in rational debate to defend your opinion), shows the position you hold is untenable.
starhawk wrote:... you get a remarkably insensitive picture.
IMO this usage of the image of runner "197" is morally unacceptable , whether you are religious or not.
I very much doubt they or their parent / guardian have given consent to this usage of their image.
[ If "197" was a member of your family would you want their image used in this way ? ]

If you really are religious, runner "197" is one of God's creations, and you shouldn't be ridiculing them or their creator.

starhawk
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#45 Post by starhawk »

I was actually pointing out that rational debate would probably prove too frustrating to be worth pursuing, rather than stooping to the level of a personal insult.

It was also intended as a dig at myself for getting involved in the first place, since all I've gotten out of it so far is feeling stupid for opening my metaphorical mouth in the first place.

For the record, I am not religious, by choice. There are too many people who do many very bad things (in my opinion) in the name of God, and too many people (this is a particularly rampant problem here in the US) glorifying the concept of undereducation-to-the-point-of-near-idiocy, also in the name of God, for me to Believe in any sort of organized anything of that sort. Thanks but no thanks. I'm not an athiest, either. I'm what I call "undecided" -- I don't know what I believe in. When I figure it out, I'll let you (and probably a few others) know. Right now, it's actually not a high priority for me... one of the advantages of not having religion (at least in the traditional sense) is that one is far less susceptible to spiritual crises.

In any event, I recognize that I'm not likely to change your mind, and I'm quite certain you won't change mine, so what's the point? ;)

Thanks, it's been fun and all, but this is my stop so I'm getting off now.

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Ted Dog
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#46 Post by Ted Dog »

No use jumping hoops for a skeptical persons million dollar prize. They are always the smartest guy in the room. They do not even need logic to believe the other guy point. Since the skepticism is not about answers, no point in playing their games. Its like trolling online no real value in being a skeptic. They are not striving for answers not worried about logic or improving the human condition. :P

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mikeb
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#47 Post by mikeb »

well since this seems to be more about believe than any scientific investigation its time for me to exit stage left too....

enjoy

Mike

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Smithy
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#48 Post by Smithy »

Well don't you think it's time that we started building Faraday Houses?

There were reports quite a few years ago about children being more vulnerable to electronic radiation from mobile phones because their brain tissue was softer.

This was tested several times I think and the "report" was "INCONCLUSIVE" i.e the mobile industry expansion plans were too important (if one is a cynic) to be disrupted by paranoia about health.

But maybe the emf was too insignificant to be deemed a hazard to elfs.
I'm sure the truth is out there somewhere.

I've built a couple of Faradays round portable preamps and they are ace.
But then you come up against the laws of physics that says:

"Thou Shalt not get a signal to noise ratio any better than -89db or so in the analogue world, give or take a few saints or sinners".
And digital is so...boring, flat, perfect..ish.

I'm with Tarantino on film, get rid of this digital, get your 35mm out.


I reckon we are all suffering in some degrees from emf, but have learnt to adapt to the brain frying. But does this help Original poster..

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Ted Dog
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#49 Post by Ted Dog »

Faraday Houses are an idea there is another idea that peaked my interest and did seem to bave a calming effect is building to not cause eddys with earths natural ground currents. Should see if I can find that professors reports. Faraday houses are hard to make and cause an issue with ground currents disruptions. But earthen houses with out metal grids in roofs floors or walls allow the much stronger ground currents to envelope the structure. That with the mass dampers all forms of radiation not just EMF. And you do not have to worry about living inside of a microwave oven effect of your own cell phones computers and such.
I do n9t recall all the details some seems to go against regular views of shielding but he was good about addressing those rules.

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Ted Dog
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#50 Post by Ted Dog »

http://www.udcinc.org/CEB%20PUB.html

found the reports storage location lots of interesting points not just EMF

Prof. John J. Morony
Biology Department

Texas.

I hope he published that I do have a copy some where.

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