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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Who here can relate to EMF-handicapped
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Minni

Joined: 05 Mar 2014
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 06:57    Post subject: Re: Who here can relate to EMF-handicapped
Subject description: this is a practical Q for me
 

Going under high-powered lines for just a short while is what's probably called "acute" (similar to putting your finger quickly thru a candle flame). It doesn't compare to proximity+prolongedly - even if the latter is relatively weaker.

As for WIFI, many experts warn against it (such as Dr.Magda Havas - see her on YouTube). I also tend to get bad headaches & heart palps in proximity to my radio, and obviously radio is not visual.

Les Kerf wrote:
Minni wrote:
I'm trying to smooth the road...

...P.S. I'd appreciate an answer to my original question only...


When we aren't able to smooth the road, sometimes we can at least put springs in the wagon.

I am certainly not qualified to help with your problem, all I can suggest is that when you do start a thread, to make mention that there may be a delay in responding.

Better yet - I just added a notification of such in my signature. (update: but it doesn't seem to be displaying.)

Quote:
Also, one thing I do know about EMF is that the law of inverse squares does apply. This means that if you double the distance, the EMF drops to 1/4 of the original value. Make the print as large as practical and get as far away from it as you can.s

It's for that reason I most recently got 15" thinkpads, so that I can place it as far from me on the compu-table as I possibly can. But I'm still using external keyboard & external corded mouse, both of which are connected to the green/purple PS2/USB converter tat's plugged into my computer.

For all I know, maybe I would do better with a wireless mouse & keyboard, despite what the experts say. On the other hand, maybe it's risky.

I do know for a fact that when roaming with an AM radio (tuned to white noise) - and enter my computer area, there's a loud buzzing whenever it gets near the computer or the modem. The buzzing represents heavy EMFs. It similarly buzzes near every curly-fluresent lightbulb, as well as digital clocks which are on stoves and elsewhere.

EDIT:
Ted Dog - just now noticed Page 2 of this thread. If you type BUMP in response below, that could remind me to take a look at page 2 of this thread, since right now I'm zonked. I noticed you offered alot of solutions, alot of which I'd read of in past, but there's just so much I can do. Nevertheless, I'll take a look. I'd been aware that there's a EMF-free zone somewhere in a NJ military-security zone, but maybe my memory is off, and it's actually in VA.

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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 717

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 07:56    Post subject: Re: Who here can relate to EMF-handicapped
Subject description: this is a practical Q for me
 

Minni wrote:
I'd been aware that there's a EMF-free zone somewhere in a NJ

Unless it's a metal [Faraday] cage : there is no " EMF-free zone" on Earth because of the radio-waves coming from the sun and other stars, [ aurorae and lightning also generate radio-waves 24/7].

The people who allege they have EMF sensitivity, but who are psychogenic, will report that they feel better in the wilderness where they don't see power-cables and radio-masts : ( the sight of such devices makes them anxious and consequently feel unwell ).

The people who allege they have EMF sensitivity but are organically ill , (e.g. autoimmune), will not benefit from moving into the wilderness, as their illness is "real" and endogenous.

People who allege they have EMF sensitivity cannot demonstrate it : in double-blind trials they cannot tell if a device which emits EMF is on or off. If they were sensitive to it they would be able to tell : EMF sensitivity does not exist.

You're barking up the wrong tree looking for an electronic cause of your health problems ...

Steven Novella, M.D. wrote:
While people who believe they have EHS are really having symptoms, EHS is a distraction from what is really going on. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that EHS is not a genuine distinct clinical syndrome, or at the very least that it is not caused by exposure to EMF. Continuing to promote EHS as if it is a real medical condition is irresponsible, in inexcusable given the easy access to information that is currently available.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/2153-electromagnetic-hypersensitivity-still-dubious-.html

If I'm wrong and you actually have this superpower you could make a fortune demonstrating it ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi#One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8252

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 08:40    Post subject:  

Ok so we are talking about voltage spikes and their associated fields.

Switchmode power supplies chop up the mains and that cause the moise you here on the radio...light dimmers were notorious for it and the ensuing interference.

What about lightening storms...they generate far more than any piece of electrical or electronic equipment? Only a nuclear device can top that one.

mike
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2330
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 12:51    Post subject:  

People who allege they have EMF sensitivity cannot demonstrate it : in double-blind trials they cannot tell if a device which emits EMF is on or off. If they were sensitive to it they would be able to tell : EMF sensitivity does not exist.

You are reading into the study more then the Authors. Their tests did not prove a connection. That happens all the time in studies. That is the lack of a finding with the way they tested it. Not that a connection does not occur. Read the full test report they did find something I those self reported EMF suffers had a larger than expected abnormal medical test results. Rolling Eyes
Also number of other tests did find a connection but others where not able to reproduce so they investigated the methodology and other found issues witb the methodology. That is not a validation or a rejection just a difference of opinion on what are facts and what value exists.
I do have a background in research in the presentation of data and the securing of raw data as it pertains to research. I had no role in interpretation or publishing of such. I have been floored how data looks one way to me and findings of researchers only once.
There is a market for scientific research. When money flows into studies and contain hard methodology choices ( duration very limited ) the LACK of findings are almost guaranteed. That is what I see here. Eariler broad studies find some correlation which panic electronic manufacturers they support many low cost cherrypicked studies with forced very very limited scope and a short time frame. Those studies produce exactly as wanted NO findings.
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Bird Dog

Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 21
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 14:37    Post subject: EMF  

In my area Catholics do not allow wi-fi in their schools.
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Moat

Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 18:11    Post subject:  

I'd bet another simple solution/test might be to use a section of metal window screening - say, 18" wide and maybe 28" long... tuck it under the front of the laptop, and circle the remainder up and over the top - clip it up to a good ground/earth. Seems the wire spacing (openings) of typical window screen is pretty close to what a microwave oven's window would use as a shield - my WAG would be that might work to block similar wavelengths (and longer, lower freqs).

Simple, quick and cheap test... possibly?

Probably induce a migraine just looking through the screening, though!

Bob
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 18:55    Post subject:  

Just because of we do not have any evidence or any suitable testing options to prove if something isn't existing, doesn't mean, it isn't existing.

Most of all things that we nowadays know as "is existing" did exist already, when we didn't know anything about these things.

And for the results of studies and researches:

Do not trust any photography that you didn't modify by yourself!

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2330
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 21:27    Post subject:  

hardest part of science is to have a ton of correlating effects and NOT having a reproducible scientific methodology to prove it. That is when the sharks circle and deep pockets start thowning money at researchers to OWN the knowledge and control the outcomes.
Second favorite is the coat tail research once a scientific methodology works to oncover results everybody studies it.. like coldfusion.
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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 717

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 22:17    Post subject:  

Ted Dog wrote:
I do have a background in research in the presentation of data and the securing of raw data as it pertains to research. I had no role in interpretation or publishing of such. I have been floored how data looks one way to me and findings of researchers only once.
There is a market for scientific research. When money flows into studies and contain hard methodology choices ( duration very limited ) the LACK of findings are almost guaranteed. That is what I see here. Eariler broad studies find some correlation which panic electronic manufacturers they support many low cost cherrypicked studies with forced very very limited scope and a short time frame. Those studies produce exactly as wanted NO findings.

If one single person can demonstrate they have EMF-sensitivity then the Randi million dollar prize is theirs.

No manipulation of raw data , or influence of the cabal of electronic manufacturers, could stop them from picking up a suitcase of cash from Mr Randi.

As yet no-one has won the the Randi million dollar prize, ( other prizes are available if you can prove you have ESP ).

At the risk of stating the obvious : if in a blind-test you cannot tell whether devices capable of emitting EMF are on or off you are not actually sensitive to EMF, and your belief you are sensitive to such things is false.
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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 717

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 22:33    Post subject: Re: EMF  

Bird Dog wrote:
In my area Catholics do not allow wi-fi in their schools.
Religion and science are mutually exclusive.

( although it could be to restrict the Catholic priests access to paraphiliac-internet-pornography :¬)
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2867
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 22:41    Post subject:  

Barkin, I respectfully disagree...

Might I point out that Charles Darwin himself was quite fervently religious? (Anglican, IIRC.) I can't find it in Wiki right this second, but I've heard that he actually delayed publishing On The Origin of Species because he knew that the Church wouldn't like it...

...but what I *can* find in Wiki is that the Church's reception was far less heated than he thought Wink I'll leave it to you to read up if you're interested.

Besides -- speaking purely as an unmarried marriage counselor here -- I'm pretty sure that the Bible doesn't actually spell out how long a day is for God Himself -- so it's extremely easy to say that evolution is His Way of moving things along. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.)

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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 717

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 22:48    Post subject:  

starhawk wrote:
Might I point out that Charles Darwin himself was quite fervently religious? (Anglican, IIRC.) I can't find it in Wiki right this second, but I've heard that he actually delayed publishing On The Origin of Species because he knew that the Church wouldn't like it...

My point exactly : his scientific discovery was incompatible with his religion.

The science bit and religion are mutually exclusive: there is no God in science.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2867
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 23:15    Post subject:  

You know, I'd point out how you extracted less than half of what I wrote and used it by itself (to the complete and entire exclusion of the rest of everything else there, which is to say, my entire point itself) -- but I'd probably just be wasting my metaphorical breath...

So, instead, you get a remarkably insensitive picture.


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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 717

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jun 2014, 00:08    Post subject:  

starhawk wrote:
You know, I'd point out how you extracted less than half of what I wrote and used it by itself (to the complete and entire exclusion of the rest of everything else there, which is to say, my entire point itself) -- but I'd probably just be wasting my metaphorical breath...

So, instead, you get a remarkably insensitive picture.




To imply that anyone who disagrees with you is mentally-retarded, (rather than engage in rational debate to defend your opinion), shows the position you hold is untenable.

starhawk wrote:
... you get a remarkably insensitive picture.

IMO this usage of the image of runner "197" is morally unacceptable , whether you are religious or not.
I very much doubt they or their parent / guardian have given consent to this usage of their image.
[ If "197" was a member of your family would you want their image used in this way ? ]

If you really are religious, runner "197" is one of God's creations, and you shouldn't be ridiculing them or their creator.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2867
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jun 2014, 00:32    Post subject:  

I was actually pointing out that rational debate would probably prove too frustrating to be worth pursuing, rather than stooping to the level of a personal insult.

It was also intended as a dig at myself for getting involved in the first place, since all I've gotten out of it so far is feeling stupid for opening my metaphorical mouth in the first place.

For the record, I am not religious, by choice. There are too many people who do many very bad things (in my opinion) in the name of God, and too many people (this is a particularly rampant problem here in the US) glorifying the concept of undereducation-to-the-point-of-near-idiocy, also in the name of God, for me to Believe in any sort of organized anything of that sort. Thanks but no thanks. I'm not an athiest, either. I'm what I call "undecided" -- I don't know what I believe in. When I figure it out, I'll let you (and probably a few others) know. Right now, it's actually not a high priority for me... one of the advantages of not having religion (at least in the traditional sense) is that one is far less susceptible to spiritual crises.

In any event, I recognize that I'm not likely to change your mind, and I'm quite certain you won't change mine, so what's the point? Wink

Thanks, it's been fun and all, but this is my stop so I'm getting off now.

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