palemoon browser

[watchdog]

Pale Moon will not run at all without (reasonably updated versions of) the following dependencies:


GTK+ v2.24
GLibc v2.17
Pango
X.Org
libstdc++ 4.3

The following glibc-tweaked package is tested working in puppy 4.31 with gtk+-2.18.3:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pe ... 8.3-p4.pet

and glib-2.22.2:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pe ... 2.2-p4.pet

It can work in other old puppies (even without the suggested updates for only puppy4) which don't match the official requirements. It uses a patched glibc from tahr. It is not an official build and use at your own risk with the usual cares about backup. Do not install this package in recent puppies: use in recent puppies the official tar.bz2 packages from:

http://linux.palemoon.org/files/AutoIndex/index.php

palemoon-27.2.0-p4-glibc219tweak.pet:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9iMb4 ... sp=sharing

EDIT: palemoon-27.2.1-p4-glibc219tweak.pet:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9iMb4 ... sp=sharing

[sindi]

Pale Moon version 27.2.0 SSE build is available for downloading. This is a major update to the browser with a focus on back-end improvements and security. See Pale Moon forum post [url]https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15169[/url] for details. The download URL is [url]ftp://contrib:get@ftp.palemoon.org/SSE- ... 86.tar.bz2[/url]

Works fine on both my Pentium III SSE DELL Inspiron 1.0GHz from 2001, and my new Acer netbook with SSE2 from 2008.

On the ACER, HTML5 in 27.2 SSE uses 10% less CPU than the HTML5 in 27.03 SSE2 to play a 360p youtube video, because of a switch from gstreamer to ffmpeg in linux version. Top says they are both using over 150% of CPU (browser plus X) but the video plays normally.

On the DELL, HTML5 in 27.2 used close to 100% CPU (browser plus X) and youtube was extremely jerky. Flash video was the same. 27.0 (gstreamer) would have been worse. smtube with mplayer works well.

I did not check if the official (SSE2) 27.2 works in Puppy. Walter said versions post 27 would be compiled to require later libraries than we have. Walter, will you eventually provide also SSE2 versions for Puppy?
The 27.1 SSE version played youtube okay on a 2005 ACER laptop where smtube is unusable because mplayer cannot handle VESA video on in and Xorg could not be made to work in Lucid Puppy (yet).

I think 27.1 SSE played youtube acceptably on a 2002 DELL (P4 with SSE2). . .

[Walter Dnes]

I did not check if the official (SSE2) 27.2 works in Puppy. Walter said versions post 27 would be compiled to require later libraries than we have. Walter, will you eventually provide also SSE2 versions for Puppy?.

I've asked the linux lead about this. In a worst case, I might do an unofficial version.

The 27.1 SSE version played youtube okay on a 2005 ACER laptop where smtube is unusable because mplayer cannot handle VESA video on in and Xorg could not be made to work in Lucid Puppy (yet).

I think 27.1 SSE played youtube acceptably on a 2002 DELL (P4 with SSE2). . .

Plese run the following command from a commandline (roxterm or whatever) on both the Dell and the Acer and post the output here. It'll give info about the display controller, and maybe we can go further from there.

Code: Select all

lspci -v | grep -i "vga\|display"

[watchdog]

I did not check if the official (SSE2) 27.2 works in Puppy. Walter said versions post 27 would be compiled to require later libraries than we have. Walter, will you eventually provide also SSE2 versions for Puppy?.

I've asked the linux lead about this. In a worst case, I might do an unofficial version.

In my opinion nothing is changed. The SSE2 official palemoon continue to work in precise. Previous puppies can use my glibc-tweaked package.

[sindi]

Thanks to both watchdog and walter for providing Puppy with the latest Pale Moon. Despite what
Walter being told newer linux versions would be compiled to require newer libraries, official
27.2 also works with Lucid Puppy 2016! (NOT with my P3 DELL or Thinkpad however). The SSE bz2
is 4MB smaller, but the SSE2 official version downloads faster (from an official site).

Both versions play youtube with about 165% CPU usage plus 15% CPU for X, but it looks good.


The DELL Inspiron 8200 (2002) has a discrete video card (Nvidia 32MB or possibly ATI 64MB if
upgraded for gaming) and cost over $3000 new (with DELL's first Mobile Pentium 4-M). 4 kg.
We upgraded the CPU from 1.5 to 2.4GHz. Blowfish test says it is 1/3 slower than 2001 DELL
8100, but it acts faster. I will compare SSE and SSE2 versions on it. Is there some better
test than CPU usage? 1600x1200 pixels. It was even sold with a wifi card slot ($150 extra
for the card) and a 40 or 60GB HD.

The ACER Travelmate (2005) was discussed in the Lucid forum. Xorg does not work with it, and
Mplayer (with or without smtube) does not work with VESA video on it (blue screen). HTML5 I
think is jerky with VESA video. Flash works. apcitool suspend does not. Xorg I think works
with Tahr (or Precise?) and may get fixed by rerwin in Lucid after Network Wizard and Sound
Wizard and some video problems that affect multiple computer models.

DELL is not set up to test.

Acer has not the i915 that Xorg assigned the driver for, but Intel 82852/855GM integrated
graphics.

Both computers were sold with 1.5GHz CPU and 40GB hard disk (or 60GB in some 8200s).
ACER is three years newer, twice the blowfish speed, half the weight, about 1/10 the price.
1024x768 pixels but the same 15" screen as the DELL.

[sindi]

Youtube video (default resolution), Lucid 2016 with 2.6 kernel and VESA video (Xorg won't work with this kernel, buggy intel driver).

2005 low-end laptop, 1.5GHz, with integrated Intel 855GM graphics.

Pale Moon 27.1 SSE (Walter's) browser 89% X 6% cpu
Pale Moon 27.2 SSE2 (official) browser 92% X 4% cpu

They both look okay. Do they both use ffmpeg instead of gstreamer?
Why would the CPU usage be higher with SSE than SSE2 video?

sulu2 (lucid puppy with kernel 3.2) withy 27.2 Pale Moon and Xorg displayed about one image every 30 seconds. I will confirm.

[Walter Dnes]

Youtube video (default resolution), Lucid 2016 with 2.6 kernel and VESA video (Xorg won't work with this kernel, buggy intel driver).

2005 low-end laptop, 1.5GHz, with integrated Intel 855GM graphics.

Partial kernel support for the "Poulsbo" GMA500 video chips was included as of kernel 3.18.

They both look okay. Do they both use ffmpeg instead of gstreamer?

Yes

Why would the CPU usage be higher with SSE than SSE2 video?

Sorry, I'm confused. The post title says 27.1 SSE uses less than 27.2 SSE2. Here you're saying it uses more?

[sindi]

The SSE-only Pale Moon uses slightly less CPU than the SSE2 version for Youtube.

No difference between VESA (2.6 kernel) and Xorg (3.2 kernel).

Total CPU usage occasionally shoots up to about 100%, causing slight jerkiness on 2004 Acer
4001LCi using HTML5. HTML5 only goes up to 360p.

Flash uses less CPU on my P3 and does 480 and 720p.

Mplayer works properly with Xorg (not VESA on the Acer) in smtube.
Smtube with mplayer does 240 360 720 but not 480p.
Does VLC do 480p in smtube?

[sindi]

Posting in forum about browsers for Puppy says HTML5 will go up to 720p in Youtube, or even
higher if you set media.mediasource.enabled true (go to about:config) in Firefox 36. It is
already TRUE in Palemoon 27.2. A youtube video listed as 1020p offers me the choice of Auto
or 360p. Youtube says to use Chrome, Safari, IE, or Firefox on recent Windows or Mac for more
video choices. Does anyone get even 480p with HTML5 at youtube (Pale Moon 27.2)?

I see a gstreamer setting but not a mediasource setting in Palemoon 26.5 (also only 360p).

My netbook resolution is 1024x600 but I think Smtube set to 720p will fill the screen (360p
does not).

[Walter Dnes]

Posting in forum about browsers for Puppy says HTML5 will go up to 720p in Youtube, or even higher if you set media.mediasource.enabled true (go to about:config) in Firefox 36. It is already TRUE in Palemoon 27.2. A youtube video listed as 1020p offers me the choice of Auto or 360p. Youtube says to use Chrome, Safari, IE, or Firefox on recent Windows or Mac for more video choices. Does anyone get even 480p with HTML5 at youtube (Pale Moon 27.2)?

Another set of MSE settings in Pale Moon. Follow the Pale Moon menu...

Edit ==> Preferences ==> Content

On the mid-bottom left are 3 check-boxes for MSE. I've enabled them all.

I see a gstreamer setting but not a mediasource setting in Palemoon 26.5 (also only 360p).

I don't know if it was even available in that version.

My netbook resolution is 1024x600 but I think Smtube set to 720p will fill the screen (360p does not).

The Youtube roller coaster video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dC6uJDNf64 may be too much for your system. It shows options for 144, 240, 360, 480, 720, and 1080. The numbers listed are for the vertical resolution, e.g.
480 ==> 640x480
720 ==> 1280x720
1080 ==> 1920x1080

1024x600 sounds weird. I assume you're using VESA. Have you tried the fbdev driver under X?

[Walter Dnes]

The SSE-only Pale Moon uses slightly less CPU than the SSE2 version for Youtube.

This could be a situation where there is no real difference, and you hit something random. You'd need to repeat the test 10 times each way to average out the random variations.

[sindi]

Another set of MSE settings in Pale Moon. Follow the Pale Moon menu...

Edit ==> Preferences ==> Content

On the mid-bottom left are 3 check-boxes for MSE. I've enabled them all.
----
two were already checked - I checked enable MSE for WebM and I now can choose 144 240 360 480p (probably more for some videos).

Why is this box unchecked by default?

My 2005 DELL B130 uses 50% of cpu to play 360p video with Flash 24.
It uses 95% of cpu (includng X) to play 360p with HTML5 usably,.
It uses 88% of cpu to play 480p with HTML5 but sound is out of sync.
(The 88 vs 95 could be related to a busier section of the video)

On my 2008 netbook I think Flash and HTML5 used the same cpu %.

Is there any advantage to HTML5 instead of flash?

While researching this I read that flash consumes more power, does not work on a touch screen or on apple devices, and that HTML5 runs 58% faster. Also Flash in linux uses the CPU for graphics processing, which could explain why SSE and SSE2 versions of Pale Moon use the same CPU percentage with Flash (but I think also with HTML5).

On most of my hardware Flash uses far less CPU than HTML5 and works much better.

[quote="sindi"]I see a gstreamer setting but not a mediasource setting in Palemoon 26.5 (also only 360p).[/quote]
I don't know if it was even available in that version.

What is Mediasource?

-------------------

[quote="sindi"]My netbook resolution is 1024x600 but I think Smtube set to 720p will fill the screen (360p does not).[/quote]

The Youtube roller coaster video [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dC6uJDNf64[/url] may be too much for your system. It shows options for 144, 240, 360, 480, 720, and 1080. The numbers listed are for the vertical resolution, e.g.
480 ==> 640x480
720 ==> 1280x720
1080 ==> 1920x1080

Why try to play 1080p on a 1024x600 screen?.
I presume the 720p is converted to display at 600p.

1024x600 sounds weird. I assume you're using VESA. Have you tried the fbdev driver under X?

Xorg with the Acer netbook offers 1024x600, 800x600, 640x480 720x400 640x400 640x350

HP netbook does 1024x568

[Walter Dnes]

two were already checked - I checked enable MSE for WebM and I now can choose 144 240 360 480p (probably more for some videos).

Why is this box unchecked by default?

The 27.2.0 release announcement https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15169 mentions...

Fixed some more playback issues with MP4/MSE videos.
Please be aware that we are still working on further improving MSE video handling.

...so the developers may not be 100% happy with it yet, and turned it off by default to play safe.

Is there any advantage to HTML5 instead of flash?

Flash is a scripting and development environment that does a lot more than merely play video. It seems to have lots of security issues. That's one reason many websites are abandoning it now. Which is faster... that depends on whether Flash can accelerate your video display, versus can your browser accelerate your video display. Flash is usually faster, but browsers are starting to catch up with acceleration.

What is Mediasource?

From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Source_Extensions

Media Source Extensions (MSE) is a W3C specification that allows JavaScript to send byte streams to media codecs within web browsers that support HTML5 video. Among other possible uses, this allows the implementation of client-side prefetching and buffering code for streaming media entirely in JavaScript. It is compatible with, but should not be confused with, the Encrypted Media Extensions specification, and neither requires the use of the other.

Netflix announced experimental support in June 2014 for the use of MSE playback on the Safari browser on the OS X Yosemite beta release.

YouTube started using MSE with its HTML5 player in September 2013.

[Walter Dnes]

Which is faster... that depends on whether Flash can accelerate your video display, versus can your browser accelerate your video display. Flash is usually faster, but browsers are starting to catch up with acceleration.

Speaking of browser acceleration, when you go to "about:support", in the "Graphics" section, what does the line "GPU Accelerated Windows" report?

[Walter Dnes]

Pale Moon minor update to v 27.2.1 This is a small update to fix some stability and usability issues. See https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15260 for details. The mainstream linux release (32 and 64 bit) is available via http://linux.palemoon.org/

The SSE linux release (for Pentium 3 class machines) can be downloaded from URL ftp://contrib:get@ftp.palemoon.org/SSE- ... 86.tar.bz2 Since the SSE build is not a mainstream build, it has to be installed manually. See the first post in Pale Moon forum thread https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=13530 for manual install instructions.

[sindi]

DELL Inspiron B130 circa 2005 (DDR2 PC2-4200
1.5GHz cpu that tests slow with blowfish)
915GM, i915 driver in Xorg, lucid retro

Pale Moon 27.2.0 (have not yet updated)

about:support, Graphics

Adapter Description: GLX extension missing

CPU Accelerated Windows: 0/1 Basic Blocked for your graphics driver version. Try updating your graphics driver version
to <anything with Ext_texture_from_pixmap support> or newer
(is this relevant for youtube or just games?)

WebGL Renderer: blocked for your graphics card because of unresolved driver issues (for 3D rendering)
(WebGL was released in 2011)

false
(Azure...)
cairo
cairo
none
0

Intel integrated Media Accelerator 900 graphics card, GMA900
333MHz core, DirectX 9 hardware acceleration, Open GL 1.4, 3D

GMA 2004 for low-cost market. 900 was the first of the series. Use main memory, up to 128MB, instead of video memory.
Relies on the host CPU to do a lot of the graphics processing. (As do all video cards in linux using Flash).
GMA 900 series includes 910G, 915G, 915Gx.

So this is a slow video chip that uses a slow CPU to do a lot of its processing.
But Flash in linux uses the CPU not the graphics card for processing (SSE and SSE2 are both irrelevant).
Why is Flash better at youtube here and on other older laptops?

[Walter Dnes]

So this is a slow video chip that uses a slow CPU to do a lot of its processing. But Flash in linux uses the CPU not the graphics card for processing (SSE and SSE2 are both irrelevant). Why is Flash better at youtube here and on other older laptops?

Actually, Flash does try to use hardware acceleration, if available. The Flash config file is /etc/adobe/mms.cfg and it mentions hardware acceleration. Flash talks directly to the video chip to execute graphics primitives. HTML5 talks to the browser which talks to the WebGL driver which talks to the video chip. Flash was talking to the video chip before WebGL existed.

Can you try sulu 2? It supports acceleration on my T400 notebook, probably due to more up-to-date kernel and libs and drivers..

[mikeslr]

Just a note that watchdog's "palemoon...precise" pet, available here, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 157#936686 worked OOTB under Carolina-Vanguard.

Nice work, watchdog.

mikesLr

[tallboy]

I made a post in RetroTechGuy's thread Chronic Firefox crashes - [Not solved - but Palemoon runs], recommending PaleMoon - which maybe deserves to be mentioned here also. The PaleMoon version is 27.2.1.

But I have a problem: How do I remove the 'Bookmark this page' and 'Go' buttons from the urlbar/address field? I have seen a recipe on how to make a userChrome.css file, and placed it in /opt/palemoon/browser/chrome/. It doesn't work, does anyone have a better recipe?
I cannot find any other chrome file in my LupuPlus 5.2.8.005-1, is there a better location? I have also placed a relative link to the file in the .moonchild productions directory.

Code: Select all

/* Remove Bookmark Star in Search bar */
#star-button {
  display: none !important;
}
/* Remove Go button from address bar */
#go-button-stack, .search-go-button-stack { display: none !important; }

#BookmarksMenu #feedsMenu {display: none !important;}
#BookmarksMenu #feedsMenu + menuseparator {display: none !important;}

tallboy

[Walter Dnes]

Assuming that Pale Moon and Firefox haven't diverged too far yet, see http://kb.mozillazine.org/index.php?tit ... ntable=yes for info. You have to...

1. dive into the specific profile folder
2. create a "chrome" subdirectory in the profile folder, if one does not exist
3. create file "userChrome.css" in the chrome subdirectory

EDIT:
If that doesn't work, try the official Pale Moon forum. The Linux version subforum is https://forum.palemoon.org/viewforum.php?f=37