http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kern ... 05492.html
We don't merge kernel code just
because user space was written by a retarded monkey on crack. Kernel
code has higher standards.........
We don't merge kernel code just
because user space was written by a retarded monkey on crack. Kernel
code has higher standards.........
And here is the Andy (original poster of the thread) confirms that his was moved to raise the question exactly because systemd people pushed it that way:Martin Steigerwald wrote:I hope you kernel developers will still review kdbus carefully as you did so
far, instead of giving in to any downstream pressure by distros.
It is exactly this attitude and this approach of systemd upstream that I
feel uneasy about. Instead of humbly waiting and working towards having
kdbus accepted to the kernel, systemd developers seem to use any means to
create indirect pressure to have it included eventually.
I hope that it will still be technical excellence as entry barrier for
anything that goes into the kernel.
Please note: I do not judge upon the technical quality of kdbus. I think
others are more knowledgeable to do it.
In other words, trying to force fait accompli on the kernel developers TO GET IT IN QUICK QUICK RIGHT NOW, regardless of various design and implementation issues - future issues and forward compatibility be damned! You wonder why?Andy Lutomirski wrote:FWIW, once there are real distros with kdbus userspace enabled,
reviewing kdbus gets more complicated -- we'll be in the position
where merging kdbus in a different form from that which was proposed
will break existing users.
Probably already too late. The core functionality of recent Linux offerings is probably deeply contaminated and compromised. These efforts towards making it more centralised and Windows-like reveal a higher agenda as far as i can see. Well out of Torvalds hands by now I suspect.jamesbond wrote:But when the crown prince makes a basic mistake like this, the king must dicipline him, otherwise the history has told us what will happen after the king abdicates ....
Okay, systemd and kdbus are separate items, albeit being bonded together. I suspect similar comments to the above post could be made about the systemd approach itself, but I'm just guessing.Joe
April 18, 2015 at 5:18 pm
No. Kdbus does not need to be tied to the design of dbus to implement dbus in userspace. The kernel does not understand HTTP or websockets, but we can use it just fine. Why? Because the bits than should be in the kernels are (though even that could be reduced). This is about changing the implementation of dbus to take advantage of some future kernel ipc mechanism, and for that the kernel does not need to understand dbus. Instead, the model (which should be much simpler than dbus) should have the building blocks needed for dbus and preferably also other ipc mechanisms.
Even if this only benefits dbus, having the kernel side of things be simple helps maintainability tremendously because ipc systems are not standalone things like drivers. The design affects how you can build containers and what security mechanisms you can provide (at the very least. I’m sure there’s more).
I think the strength of Linux has been the ease with which "ordinary" programmers such as yourself can access, scrutinise and improve the code. Moving the system code into the hands of the 'geniuses' you mentioned carries the risk of removing scrutiny and requiring complete trust from the rest of us. Just like Microsoft code does. If the code is not readily understandable and accessible it becomes more or less the same thing as proprietary code.mcewanw wrote:All that OO stuff, on that large IPC scale, leaves the programming to a few 'geniuses', which is sad and more than a trifle boring for those of us who enjoy playing with old-fashioned UNIX programming philosophy.
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james@nosystemd:~$ uname -a
Linux nosystemd 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1 (2015-05-24) x86_64 GNU/Linux
james@nosystemd:~$
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james@nosystemd:~$ cat /proc/1/comm
init
For me, the longevity of UNIX more generally comes from the simple use of text files for most configuration purposes. Most shell utilities are thus text processors of one sort or another, which are made so very powerful through the relatively simple concepts of pipes and redirects and the implemention of stardard input, output and error devices and so on.greengeek wrote:the strength of Linux
http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/slackware-live-edition/slackware wrote:Fri Nov 20 05:25:18 UTC 2015
We've made the switch from udev to eudev, and everything seems to be working
perfectly. Big thanks to the eudev team for helping us bring Slackware's
udev up to date!
Alien wrote:With the abandoned ConsoleKit replaced by ConsoleKit2 which is actively maintained by the Slackware-friendly XFCE crew, and Gentoo’s eudev taking the place of udev, we are well equipped to keep systemd out of our distro for a while. Basically eudev contains the udev code as found in the systemd sources, but then stripped from all standards-violating systemd crap and with a sane build system. Hooray, we’re back in business and eudev gained some more traction. Win-win.
my experience is that you don't need some devuan to avoid systemD in jessie but very well now if you want to do that in SIDJames C wrote:Devuan Jessie x86-64.
https://devuan.org/
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james@nosystemd:~$ uname -a Linux nosystemd 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1 (2015-05-24) x86_64 GNU/Linux james@nosystemd:~$
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james@nosystemd:~$ cat /proc/1/comm init
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testing/packages/eudev-3.1.5-i586-1.txz: Added.
Thanks to Jean-Philippe Guillemin.
Expect problems (especially with an initrd) unless everything depending upon
libudev.so.0 is recompiled. Those packages include: ConsoleKit2,
ModemManager, NetworkManager, aaa_elflibs, bluez, dhcpcd, gutenprint, gvfs,
intel-gpu-tools, kde-workspace, kdelibs, libatasmart, libcanberra, libgphoto2,
libgpod, libmbim, libmtp, libusb, libusb-compat, lvm2, network-manager-applet,
qt, sane, system-config-printer, udisks, udisks2, usbmuxd, usbutils,
util-linux, xf86-input-evdev, xf86-input-vmmouse, xf86-video-ati,
xf86-video-intel, xf86-video-modesetting, xf86-video-nouveau,
xf86-video-openchrome, and xorg-server.
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Fri Nov 20 21:52:15 UTC 2015
a/eudev-3.1.5-i586-4.txz: Rebuilt.
rc.udev: Don't update the hardware database index until / is read-write.
Remove obsolete /lib/udev/udevd symlink.
a/udisks-1.0.5-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
Eliminate redundant udev rule trying to call pci-db.
+--------------------------+
Fri Nov 20 05:25:18 UTC 2015
We've made the switch from udev to eudev, and everything seems to be working
perfectly. Big thanks to the eudev team for helping us bring Slackware's
udev up to date! Make sure you remove the old udev and install both of the
new packages (eudev and libgudev), and then the changeover to eudev should
go as smooth as silk. Really, the icu4c upgrade seemed more disruptive. :)
A reboot after this is probably better than "/etc/rc.d/rc.udev force-restart",
but that worked fine here, too. It would also be a good idea to regenerate
the initrd so that it uses eudev, but once again things worked fine here
either way. Have fun!
a/aaa_elflibs-14.2-i586-6.txz: Rebuilt.
a/etc-14.2-i586-4.txz: Rebuilt.
Added input group, GID 71.
Added SDDM user/group, UID 64, GID 64.
a/eudev-3.1.5-i586-3.txz: Added.
This replaces the udev package.
rc.udev: Fix mounting /dev/shm.
rc.udev: Remove devtmpfs check.
rc.udev: Remove persistent CD rules support.
udev.conf: Remove obsolete udev_root setting.
Patch 60-cdrom_id.rules to create alternate device names.
Move system installed hwdb files under /lib.
Remove obsolete udev_root references from the manpages, and install them.
Thanks to Robby Workman.
a/libgudev-230-i586-1.txz: Added.
This library is required to use eudev.
a/lvm2-2.02.134-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
a/sysvinit-scripts-2.0-noarch-22.txz: Rebuilt.
rc.S: Remove obsolete UMSDOS related error messages.
a/udev-182-i486-7.txz: Removed.
This is replaced by the eudev and libgudev packages.
a/udisks-1.0.5-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
a/udisks2-2.1.5-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
a/usbutils-007-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
a/util-linux-2.26.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
ap/gphoto2-2.5.9-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
ap/gutenprint-5.2.10-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
ap/hplip-3.15.11-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
ap/nano-2.4.3-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
ap/sqlite-3.9.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
ap/usbmuxd-1.1.0-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
d/gcc-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
Patched to fix problems with Wine (and possibly other things.)
Thanks to Spinlock.
d/gcc-g++-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-gfortran-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-gnat-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-go-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-java-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-objc-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/mercurial-3.6.1-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
Renamed bash-completion file from mercurial to hg, otherwise it doesn't work.
Thanks to Audrius Kazukauskas.
d/subversion-1.9.2-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
kde/calligra-2.9.9-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
kde/kde-workspace-4.11.22-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
kde/kdeconnect-kde-0.8-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
Patched to fix problems with OpenSSH 7.x. Thanks to Eric Hameleers.
kde/kdelibs-4.14.14-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
kde/kig-4.14.3-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
l/ConsoleKit2-1.0.0-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
l/akonadi-1.13.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/apr-util-1.5.4-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/boost-1.59.0-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
Shared library .so-version bump.
l/gtk+3-3.18.5-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/gvfs-1.26.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/harfbuzz-1.0.6-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/icu4c-56.1-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
Shared library .so-version bump.
l/libatasmart-0.19-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libcanberra-0.30-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libgphoto2-2.5.9-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/libgpod-0.8.3-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libmtp-1.1.10-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/libsoup-2.52.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libusb-1.0.20-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/libusb-compat-0.1.5-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libvisio-0.1.3-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/qt-4.8.7-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/raptor2-2.0.15-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/system-config-printer-1.3.13-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/ModemManager-1.4.10-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/NetworkManager-1.0.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/bluez-4.101-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/dhcpcd-6.8.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/httpd-2.4.17-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/libmbim-1.12.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/network-scripts-14.2-noarch-1.txz: Upgraded.
Add loopback up/down/start/stop features.
Fix bringing down a single non-bridge interface.
Thanks to Xsane.
n/nmap-7.00-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
n/php-5.6.15-i586-1.txz: Rebuilt.
n/tin-2.2.1-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
x/intel-gpu-tools-1.9-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-input-evdev-2.10.0-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-input-vmmouse-13.1.0-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-video-ati-7.6.1-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-video-intel-git_20151119_666f25b-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
x/xf86-video-modesetting-0.9.0-i586-5.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-video-nouveau-git_20151119_6e6d8ac-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
x/xf86-video-openchrome-0.3.3-i586-7.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xorg-server-1.18.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xorg-server-xephyr-1.18.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xorg-server-xnest-1.18.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xorg-server-xvfb-1.18.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
xap/audacious-3.7-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
xap/audacious-plugins-3.7-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
xap/network-manager-applet-1.0.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
xap/sane-1.0.25-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
xfce/exo-0.10.7-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
xfce/xfce4-screenshooter-1.8.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
xfce/xfce4-weather-plugin-0.8.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
isolinux/initrd.img: Rebuilt.
Removed udev, added eudev and libgudev.
Fixed partition size output.
usb-and-pxe-installers/usbboot.img: Rebuilt.
Removed udev, added eudev and libgudev.
Fixed partition size output.
+--------------------------+
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#20121005:heavy mods by goingnuts porting to gtkdialog1, ash, no gettext & no xmessage or yafsplash
#20140115: deactivated external ip look up - modified layout
# external ip
var0=""
#var0="$(wget -O - -q icanhazip.com)" #deact for privacy
#var0="External IP: $var0" #deact for privacy
# tab 1 - interfaces
var01=$(echo "Hostname: $HOSTNAME")
var02=$(ifconfig)
# write2file
echo "$var01
${var0}
${var02}" > /tmp/interfaces
See the Slacko 6.3.0 changelog and the commit log of woof-CE.anikin wrote:What's all the fuss about Woof CE, can you guys tell me what's been accomplished?
"Puppy is a do-ocracy"anikin wrote:Show me the goods - has the booting routine been rectified? Have you considered implementing simargl's workaround for Archpup instead of using the half-assed xorgwizard?
The first is off by default, the second has been replaced. Again, see the woof-CE commit log. Overall, your reply sounds to me like a complaint and I don't like this attitude.anikin wrote:What's the use of eudev, systemd or no systemd if Puppy is continuing to demonstrate malicious functionality - connecting my machine to icanhazip or ping Google without my consent and knowledge.
Poor little herring. Where is it? We need to throw it back into the sea as quick as possible.anikin wrote:That's what needs to be discussed, not the big, red herring, that Micko threw on the table.
... and I don't use AbiWord, but I don't blame developers for not caring about me because it's there. Also, in fact, I want it to be there, for all those who need it. Moreover, woof-CE allows you to build "privacy-oriented" puplets with this modified script you adore - go ahead and do that, I promise to be there to analyze your puplet's traffic and show you how false is your sense of privacy.anikin wrote:They deactivate the crap, because they care about me, the user. Compare this to what you'll see in any other Puppy ...
Not that I think will change anything, but you might want to check a puppy too.anikin wrote:That's what responsible, well-minded, well-dressed developers do. They deactivate the crap, because they care about me, the user. Compare this to what you'll see in any other Puppy ...
I presume, iguleder disabled it for his Trisquel Pup. What about the master branch - Slacko and Tahr Pups? I posted this earlier in another thread http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 461#796461 It shows an earlier version of Slacko saying hello to icanhazip. Has that changed?33a48d0 26 days ago
@dimkr dimkr Disabled ipinfo's querying by default
That would not be too difficult to check if you were really interested. Would it?anikin wrote:The script in Woof-CE *testing* says:I presume, iguleder disabled it for his Trisquel Pup. What about the master branch - Slacko and Tahr Pups?33a48d0 26 days ago
@dimkr dimkr Disabled ipinfo's querying by default