boycott systemd

[starhawk]

[...] I am concerned that it seems that systemd is shutting out other options for init. It looks like very few distros in the future will be able to operate without it. Correct me if my impression is mistaken.

Puppy, like any other distro makes certain choices available and not others. But you can always choose a different distro. But systemd seems to be taking over across the board, leaving (almost) no distros that you can choose without it. That's seems questionable and problematic to me.

I'm hoping Puppy will not be forced to adopt it eventually...

My thoughts exactly.

EDIT: in fact, thanks for putting this up, cimarron, because you've written it far better than I could've. This is almost literally exactly my feelings about systemd.

[saintless]

But I am concerned that it seems that systemd is shutting out other options for init. It looks like very few distros in the future will be able to operate without it. Correct me if my impression is mistaken.

At the moment Debian has sysvinit as default with option to install and boot systemd. When systemd becomes default in Debian it will be possible to replace it with sysvinit again.
The problem is you can not run latest Gnome and other software that depends on systemd. And more and more software will depend on it in the future.. You can't run latest Gnome in Puppy anyway at the moment. The solution is systemd haters will have to develop Gnome and similar alternatives without systemd dependency or patch systemd the way they like.
Some already do that but for others is easier to hate and complain.

[James C]

I don't have strong feelings either way; I'll probably run Mint with systemd in the future.

You'll probably be running Mint systemd free for at least a couple of years...

Similar to Linux Mint 17.x, LMDE 2 “Betsy

[James C]

The problem is you can not run latest Gnome and other software that depends on systemd.

Don't tell that to Funtoo....

http://forums.funtoo.org/topic/111-gnome-312-is-here/

You may have noticed that GNOME 3.12.2 is now part of Funtoo Linux, and does *not* require systemd.

[cimarron]

And more and more software will depend on it in the future...

Yes, that's my concern.

This is encouraging:

Puppy will never use a waterfall style development or program base apps in Java or .net, nor will we use systemd... Because we surpassed them already. Our programs run faster on less resources than a Java virtual machine, boots faster than a fully optimized systemd system. And our development is an adhoc agile meritocracy.

Systemd has its place in multiuser cloud based systems, but most individuals just want something easy that does what they want. Puppy will continue to fill that need even if we have to fork/patch everything that pulls in unneeded dependencies (Xvesa, Inkscape and glipper for example). Aside from rox,jwm and gtkdialog, we have no hard dependencies, so we can build anything we want, including an enterprise edition that uses systemd.

[anikin]

the only thing that systemd fanboys had as ammo was read-ahead, and now it's gone.

Whether it was there or not, systemd fanboys will still sound like idiots who have no idea on what they are talking about.

[saintless]

The problem is you can not run latest Gnome and other software that depends on systemd.

Don't tell that to Funtoo....

http://forums.funtoo.org/topic/111-gnome-312-is-here/

You may have noticed that GNOME 3.12.2 is now part of Funtoo Linux, and does *not* require systemd.

Excellent
Peoople who work to make things happen are the future of linux (and the future in general).
Why all this hate then? Systemd developers work for what they believe. Puppy and Debian developers work for what they believe.
Work for what you believe and let the others do the same.

[technosaurus]

Systemd developers work for what they believe.

The systemd devs work for their employers.

[saintless]

The systemd devs work for their employers.

And I work for mine as other people work for their employers. Nobody knows what else every developer works. Even if you are right then systemd devs employers work for what they believe. This does not change anything.
If systemd is so bad thing for linux world it will be forgotten soon. If sysvinit is so much better it will win soon. Systemd gives you one more choice not available before and this is good thing.

[Q5sys]

FWIW to say... systemd is not the end of the world.

And contrary to what some people naturally believe, there is no reason it can't be used in a way that's beneficial to us. systemd can be molded to work the way we would want. After having some lengthy discussions with the ALARM lead dev, and talking to the CTO where he works, you can actually use systemd in a linux distro that relies heavily on a system like what puppy uses.

We're trying to work out a time so that we can sit down and go over their exact implementation, but from the image of their's that I've been poking at... it's actually quite nifty what they've done.

systemd only handles a very few select things, the rest is controlled by various shell scripts just like you would have in a sysvinit system.

[James C]

More systemd goodness from Lennart Poettering .....


http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/FOSDEM ... in-Systemd

In a (as always with Poettering systemd appearances) impossibly overcrowded space systemd mastermind and Red Hat developer Lennart Poettering announced at the FOSDEM 2015 demolition of the systemd history of last year, told of the most important innovations and announced UEFI Boot mechanism integration in the near future.

"You will hate me for it, I know, but I think it's so great, what we're doing here!" - With these words the controversial systemd developer Lennart Poettering presented in the Developer Room H.1302 FOSDEM 2015, the most important innovation of recent and upcoming systemd agenda: the integration of UEFI certificates and a complete chain of trust is because all Above: "We will integrate into systemd rubber boat I want no one else on my Fedora have, let's kick out Microsoft and the NSA.."

[James C]

DistroWatch says systemd project to fork the kernel

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue ... #community

[amigo]

It's an April Fool's joke.

[Terry H]

DistroWatch says systemd project to fork the kernel

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue ... #community

Maybe they will fork the kernel, but looking at the name of the source of the information GOTYAovich, the story looks a bit suspect.

[bark_bark_bark]

DistroWatch says systemd project to fork the kernel

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue ... #community

Maybe they will fork the kernel, but looking at the name of the source of the information GOTYAovich, the story looks a bit suspect.

It's an early April Fool's Joke.

[James C]

DistroWatch says systemd project to fork the kernel

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue ... #community

Maybe they will fork the kernel, but looking at the name of the source of the information GOTYAovich, the story looks a bit suspect.

It's an early April Fool's Joke.

If it's on the internet it must be true.....

[oui]

it seems to be so that the new (just awaiting) 15.04 will be a radical systemd oriented one (and actualization of an old 14.10 will be automatic adapted to systemd if you require a distro upgrade in upgrade!!!)

what now?

[technosaurus]

what now?

I would recommend doing the same thing I did with Debian Wheezy/Jessie using Trusty/<nextLTS> when it comes out (just do upgrade, update but not dist-upgrade) ... which should be sufficient to update the packages you use (including any with new library dependencies from systemd) without changing your init.

FWIW I hava a grub entry that uses my init that does only the minimum required to boot to Xorg+jwm (in <1s) with the rest handled in a jwm <StarupCommand> ... If anyone is interested, I can put it up on github.

[oui]

oh! yes, it is an excellent approach! Please.

[Iguleder]

Devuan support in woof-CE