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Blue Pup V6 Released 11th Oct 2014
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 2127
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 05:41    Post subject: Blue Pup V1 & V2 (Released 13th March 2014)
Subject description: touch
 

@ETP
Touch doesn't work very well in Blue Pup, tapping the puppylinux icon
worked.
I booted the Ubuntu 14.04 beta 2 DVD on the same touchscreen laptop and touch
works much better there (if you like a screen full of finger prints)
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 552
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 07:00    Post subject: Blue Pup  

Hi Billtoo,

I am amazed that it works at all!
Blue Pup was never intended for touch screens and has brought nothing new to the party in that respect.
Given its Metro interface option however, I can easily see why people might expect or desire it to have done so.

The fact that the Puppy Linux tile worked is interesting as its size is set to medium.
I do not possess a touch screen device of any kind but you may wish to experiment.
The quantity of tiles together with their placement and sizes are all adjustable.

As an aside, this is the best touch solution that I have seen – ignoring the cost of the projector! This pupil’s enthusiasm is great to see and inspirational.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XDQInCxyTU

_________________
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Accessibility Pups: -- Magoo -- The Pup With No Name -- MouseCam -- Obedient
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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3382
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:16    Post subject: Re: RE: Sound or the lack of it!  

ETP wrote:
Hi 8-bit,

My best advice is as follows:

1. Do a fresh install to an 8GB USB stick and then boot from it.

2. Do not worry if there is no sound icon to start with.

3. Do not run alsamixer or any sound related wizard.

4. Reboot at least 3 or 4 times. The sound icon may then appear.

If it does, only adjust the volume, nothing else. Test using the music icon that I have placed on the Metro desktop.


I booted Blue v3 installed on an 8gb flash stick a number of times without success as to the sound working.
I could not get any mixer to come up either.
So I bit the bullet and installed retrovol.pet.
With it, I got a usable mixer.
The main volume was shown as set to zero in the mixer and after increasing it with the slider, a task bar volume icon appeared and worked as well as having sound.
As to why the original mixer did not work is beyond me.
But now it works.
It was stated earlier that one could switch to the JWM desktop by exiting to prompt, and restarting x with "xwin jwm".
But it was not expained how to revert to the default desktop manager.

What applications were removed from version 2 in the process of cutting down the size of the xz image to under 4gb?
I just want to know what I would need to add back in.
Also, will increasing the f2fs partition size effect booting ability.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4362
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 18:04    Post subject:  

USB boot is not a normal boot for this PC. On my HDD, I have this for bootmanager instructions:
Code:
# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.8.0
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
#splashimage=/splash.xpm
timeout 5
default 1

# Frugal installed Puppy

title Puppy squeeze 5.X.3.6.2.1 (sda4/LinuxBoots)
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /LinuxBoots/PlaceDirs_Here-2
  kernel /LinuxBoots/Squeeze/vmlinuz   psubdir=LinuxBoots/Squeeze
  initrd /LinuxBoots/Squeeze/initrd.gz
What is recommended to be added to this boot manager to option USB boot? (Never installed a full-install of PUPPY before this USB approach.)

Thanks for any assistance or guidance to boot from both peripherals via the boot manager.

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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3382
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 18:33    Post subject:  

gmartin,
You did bring up a good point there.
I would also like to know if it is possible to boot from a USB drive by using an entry in the Grub menu.
I do not know just how one would even specify the line to boot the kernel, since the USB stick is not yet mounted.
One cannot use mnt/sdd2/vmlinux in that case and I tried to use /dev/sdd2/vmlinux with a fail both times.
I understand one could use Plop to boot from a USB stick on a PC that normally does not have BIOS options to boot from USB.
I also read that Plop can be run from a CD crated with an ISO file of Plop.
No mention was given though of being able to make a boot Plop floppy disk for an older PC that had a floppy drive that in turn would boot the USB stick.
There is also a floppy based boot loader called SuperGrub that supposed ly allows one to boot from installed linux OSes as well as Windows.
But I have not tried it to see if it would recognize that the USB stick even existed.
With the test version of Blue v3 set up as a fake hard drive, it shows in my PC's boot menu (not the grub menu.lst) under Hard Drive which expands when clicked on to show the USB stick as a bootable drive.
On both my PCs, pressing the F12 function key brings up that boot selection menu.

Also, I wondered how the /tmp directory is handled as far as emptying it on a full install. So I created a text file and saved it to /tmp to see if it survived a reboot.
It did not. So I do not have to worry about the /tmp directory size increasing on a reboot or startup with a full install.

Would I use Blue as a trusted OS for regular use?
Not as of yet since it is a work in progress.
I think the main thing I like is that it gets away from the windows style menu which has stayed pretty much the same over the life of Puppy linux and it's derivatives.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4362
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 19:19    Post subject:  

I, too, am wondering how to take advantage of any additional space that is available after the USB has been prepared and booted.

For example, in the attached pic below, I booted a 2nd system where I tried to use GParted to resize the f2fs partition on the BLUE USB stick. CANNOT BE DONE! Hope pic provides good view on the problem seen from GParted's position.

Hint: Running from 1 Blue stick to resize a 2nd Blue stick....missing "f2fs-tools" in BLUE; maybe in the next upcoming BLUE version.

Here to help
Cannot resize the USB partition.png
 Description   
 Filesize   86.11 KB
 Viewed   365 Time(s)

Cannot resize the USB partition.png


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Last edited by gcmartin on Sat 29 Mar 2014, 19:51; edited 3 times in total
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4362
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 19:26    Post subject:  

Quote:
... I would also like to know if it is possible to boot from a USB drive by using an entry in the Grub menu.
I do not know just how one would even specify the line to boot the kernel, since the USB stick is not yet mounted ...
The problem, I think, here is not the USB positioning at boot. Instead, its the manner in which to specify to the bootmanager what is to be used, as you correctly point out, in order to boot. GRUB4DOS should be adequate if the correct combination of parms are added.

It should be noted that the BLUE device is "sdb". For example:
Code:
# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.8.0
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
#splashimage=/splash.xpm
timeout 5
default 1

# Frugal installed Puppy
title Puppy squeeze 5.X.3.6.2.1 (sda4/LinuxBoots)
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /LinuxBoots/PlaceDirs_Here-2
  kernel /LinuxBoots/Squeeze/vmlinuz   psubdir=LinuxBoots/Squeeze
  initrd /LinuxBoots/Squeeze/initrd.gz

# Full installed BLUE Puppy on its USB path
title BLUE Puppy Version 3 (2nd USB path)
     ?
     ?
     ?
     ?

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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3382
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 23:13    Post subject:  

When it comes to resizing the f2fs partition in making it larger, it has to be done from another Version of Puppy.
I say this because even though it is a full install, it evidently appears as mounted. So if one boots up with Precise 5.7.1 for instance, and runs Gparted the f2fs partition will not be mounted and one can resize it.
At least I think that should work.
As to the f2fs-tools, I installed them and one cannot run the file system check with the report of not being able to run it on a mounted partition.
And the other two tools are not of a lot of help either from what I have seen.
The files are:
/sbin/mkfs.f2fs
/sbin/fsck.f2fs
/sbin/fibmap.f2fs

And evidently, Gparted has not been updated to fully support f2fs.
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 552
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun 30 Mar 2014, 03:58    Post subject: Blue Pup V3  

@ 8-bit,

It is good that you have solved your sound issue.

Quote:
It was stated earlier that one could switch to the JWM desktop by exiting to prompt, and restarting x with "xwin jwm".
But it was not expained how to revert to the default desktop manager.


That was only mentioned by Billtoo in the context of him experimenting with an alternate windows manager ICEWM. The installation of that would have broken most of the features of Blue Pup which is set up to use JWM. He therefore reverted to JWM by issuing that command.


Quote:
What applications were removed from version 2 in the process of cutting down the size of the xz image to under 4gb?


None. The files within all the images when decompressed have only ever totalled about 1.6GB. I reduced the size of the build stick to 4GB to get around the issues caused by using an 8GB image when the target 8GB stick failed to take the 8GB image. The size of the build stick or card dictates the size of the uncompressed image which must be restored to its original size in order to work.
What was improved in V3 was the compression of the image which reduced it from 602 Meg to 323 Meg which made for a smaller download.


Quote:
I just want to know what I would need to add back in.


If you want more than the two default icons on your desktop in addition to the panel just drag the relevant .desktop files back onto your desktop.

Quote:
Also, will increasing the f2fs partition size effect booting ability.


No. To do so you would first (using 5.7.1) need to move all the files off it to a linux partition somewhere. Then using Gparted change the format of it to ext2. Expand it then revert it back to f2fs before finally moving your files back onto it.
This is necessary as Gparted does not yet allow for the resizing of f2fs partitions.

@ gcmartin & 8-bit

Re: grub4dos

With respect you are both making life difficult for your selves. There is no need to change your existing grub setups and grub would not recognise an f2fs partition in any event.
Blue is intended to be launched from the USB stick regardless of whether the OS itself is held on the second partition of the stick or the files on that partition have been copied over to an f2fs partition that you have created on a hard drive or SSD.

Providing the stick is at the top of your BIOS boot order you can plug the stick in before you boot or if you are in a different Pup or OS, plug the stick in and re-boot.

Please see this post re hard disc install:

www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=763231#763231

When installed in this fashion I think you will find that Blue is the fastest thing on 4 paws and you can still use the stick in another PC simply reverting the syslinux.cfg by moving the comment.
There is no need to change your existing boot-loader in any way.

_________________
Regards ETP
Accessibility Pups: -- Magoo -- The Pup With No Name -- MouseCam -- Obedient
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tony

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 317
Location: Montreal.ca

PostPosted: Sun 30 Mar 2014, 09:10    Post subject: grub4dos boot  

Hi ETP,

my normal boot manager is grub4dos and I have about six pups on my laptop.

It would be convenient to just add blue to menu.lst and boot as before.

Unfortunately grub doesn't see f2fs partitions. The only answer is to boot into the fat16 front partition and hand the process over to syslinux.

Easier said than done.

Regards Tony
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 552
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun 30 Mar 2014, 11:59    Post subject: Re: grub4dos boot  

tony wrote:
Hi ETP,

my normal boot manager is grub4dos and I have about six pups on my laptop.

It would be convenient to just add blue to menu.lst and boot as before.

Unfortunately grub doesn't see f2fs partitions. The only answer is to boot into the fat16 front partition and hand the process over to syslinux.

Easier said than done.

Regards Tony

Hi Tony,

The ethos behind Blue was Windows 8.1 emulation together with Chromebook like speed and ease of use. It is intended to appeal to migrating Windows users who may know very little about Linux and to existing Linux users.

The f2fs format and method of boot were very deliberate choices in order to try to achieve those goals. I do not propose to support any other boot methods.

Should you opt to chain-load syslinux from grub4dos you need to be aware that V1 & V2 use syslinux 4.05 and V3 4.04 All components of syslinux including the extra one that you would need to install must come from the same version. Wink
Please feel free to post your solution in this thread for the benefit of others but I am not going to sort out any grub4dos problems. I have my work cut out as it is! Smile

_________________
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Accessibility Pups: -- Magoo -- The Pup With No Name -- MouseCam -- Obedient
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 2127
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sun 30 Mar 2014, 18:07    Post subject: Blue Pup V1 & V2 (Released 13th March 2014)  

Still experimenting.
I got two Lexar S33 16gb usb 3.0 flash drives (reduced price).

I used the linux method to install V2 from my X-precise-2.3
installation on my 8+ year old hp desktop.

The xz --decompress --stdout blue_pup_v2_8gb.img.xz > /dev/sdf command
+ sync commands took just over 6 minutes to complete.

I plugged the drive into a usb 2.0 port on a dual core hp desktop and hit esc to bring
up the boot menu, selected the flash drive and it booted to the desktop.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also have a Slacko 5.7 pae install on the 8+ year old hp desktop so
I repeated the above with the 2nd flashdrive.

It took about 6 minutes to complete but when I plugged it into my dual
core hp desktop but it wouldn't boot from the drive.

Went back to the old hp and booted up X-precise-2.3, gparted to start
fresh, did the install again, plugged into the dual core and it booted
to the desktop.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

video-info-glx 1.5.3 Sun 30 Mar 2014 on Quirky Tahr 6.0.5 Linux 3.12.6 i686
2.0 VGA compatible controller:
Intel Corporation 82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
oem: Intel(r)Q33/Q35/G33 Graphics Chip Accelerated VGA BIOS
product: Intel(r)Q33/Q35/G33 Graphics Controller Hardware Version 0.0
X Server: Xorg Driver: intel
X.Org version: 1.15.0
dimensions: 1920x1080 pixels (507x285 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes
direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.4
OpenGL vendor string: Intel Open Source Technology Center
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) G33 x86/MMX/SSE2
OpenGL version string: 1.4 Mesa 10.0.1
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E4500 @ 2.20GHz
Core 0: @2200 1: @2200 MHz

Anyways, Blue Pup flies on this pc.
I haven't tried booting the flash drives from a pc with a usb 3.0 port
yet.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 02:55    Post subject: Re: Blue Pup V1 & V2 (Released 13th March 2014)  

Billtoo wrote:
I got two Lexar S33 16gb usb 3.0 flash drives (reduced price). I used the linux method to install V2 from my X-precise-2.3 installation on my 8+ year old hp desktop..... and it booted to the desktop.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also have a Slacko 5.7 pae install on the 8+ year old hp desktop so I repeated the above with the 2nd flashdrive.... but it wouldn't boot from the drive.
How would you interpret these results? Do you think there is some file version difference in the Slacko setup that results in the boot failure? Maybe different Gparted or something? Or maybe a kernel difference??
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 552
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 04:42    Post subject: Blue Pup V1 & V2 (Released 13th March 2014),  

Hi Billtoo,

Thanks for continuing with testing and providing vital information.

Quote:
I also have a Slacko 5.7 pae install on the 8+ year old hp desktop so
I repeated the above with the 2nd flashdrive.

It took about 6 minutes to complete but when I plugged it into my dual
core hp desktop but it wouldn't boot from the drive.

Went back to the old hp and booted up X-precise-2.3, gparted to start
fresh, did the install again, plugged into the dual core and it booted
to the desktop.


This troubles me as you were flashing V2 onto a brand new 16GB USB3 stick. When you say it “wouldn’t boot” what did you see exactly?
1. Did syslinux 4.05 load?
2. Did you see the kernel (vmlinuz) load?
3. Did you then get an error message of some kind such as “kernel panic”?
4. Was the new target stick totally empty and consist of a single FAT32 partition?

What I am trying to establish is whether it was seen by the BIOS as a bootable device. If so, you should have seen 1 & 2. If you saw those but then encountered an error it would indicate that root was not found despite the use of PARTUUID in syslinux.cfg in that version.

@ gcmartin & 8-bit,

Quote:
Hint: Running from 1 Blue stick to resize a 2nd Blue stick....missing "f2fs-tools" in BLUE; maybe in the next upcoming BLUE version.


Neither QT nor Blue is missing “f2fs-tools”. They would not work were that so. Please check the file “woof-installed-packages” in the .packages directory. Installing another version on top is not a good idea and you should uninstall any pet you loaded using PPM. Note the use of the word “might” in the shot you posted.

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Accessibility Pups: -- Magoo -- The Pup With No Name -- MouseCam -- Obedient
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 2127
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 06:09    Post subject: Re: Blue Pup V1 & V2 (Released 13th March 2014),  

ETP wrote:

This troubles me as you were flashing V2 onto a brand new 16GB USB3 stick. When you say it “wouldn’t boot” what did you see exactly?
1. Did syslinux 4.05 load?
2. Did you see the kernel (vmlinuz) load?
3. Did you then get an error message of some kind such as “kernel panic”?
4. Was the new target stick totally empty and consist of a single FAT32 partition?

What I am trying to establish is whether it was seen by the BIOS as a bootable device. If so, you should have seen 1 & 2. If you saw those but then encountered an error it would indicate that root was not found despite the use of PARTUUID in syslinux.cfg in that version.


Even though the drives were brand new I created a new partition table
in gparted then formatted them fat 32.
The 2nd drive created in Slacko 57 just wasn't seen when I pressed esc
to bring up the boot menu, the one produced in X-precise-2.3 saw it
and booted successfully from it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to be sure I took the 2nd drive back to the old hp again and used
Slacko 5.7 to create a new install,
When I plugged it into my dual core hp it wasn't seen in the boot
menu, it's not seen in the bios boot order screen either.
But when I plugged the drive into my Acer Revo nettop pc it boots from
the drive straight to the desktop! (after hitting F12 to bring up the boot menu)
I have no idea why a drive prepared in X-precise-2.3 works fine on the
dual core hp but one done in Slacko 5.7 doesn't yet the one prepared
in Slacko 5.7 does work fine on the Acer Revo.

EDIT:
Oh my, I just plugged the 2nd drive back into the dual core hp and it showed up on the boot menu, posting from it now.
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