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How to disable autosave in Fatdog64-630?
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jtwdyp


Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Sat 01 Mar 2014, 21:37    Post subject:  How to disable autosave in Fatdog64-630?
Subject description: Want to disable AUTOMATIC ram saves.
 

Fatdog64-630: Is there a pupsaveconfig pet Question Or some other way to stop automatic saves?

With my other puppies I used a pupsaveconfig setting of "+0 (ask at shutdown)" so that if I did something stupid that corrupted something, all I had to do was to NOT save, and rebooting would get my system back the way it was before I broke it...

It would have been nice when I just tested a QTerminal pet, and found it unable to recognize about half the keys on my std us keyboard, If all I'd had to do after testing it was to reboot without saving to remove all trace of it from my frugal fatdog flash drive.

And besides, Most of the time, I don't have any reason to keep the changes on my system. I mean I make Firefox clear all cookies, cache, offline data, etc on close anyway, my email is on an IMAP server, etc... So why beat up my flashdrive with all those unrequested saves? (it is nice to be prompted at shutdown though...)
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Mar 2014, 00:48    Post subject:  

No but will exist in my retooling of FAsTDOG64
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Ted Dog


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Mar 2014, 00:56    Post subject:  

Are you using a single save file or multisession mode? on multisession mode the saves are in separate compressed files using a datetime name. Those are easy to delete to return to known state if being done with USB flashdrive. The same idea exists to hide or not reload bad sessions on DVD or BluRay data disks.
You can also try to edit the single save file configuration string replacing direct with the word ram to only save back at shutdown. You need to have enough RAM to hold everything if you choose that.
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jtwdyp


Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar 2014, 13:36    Post subject:  

Ted Dog wrote:
No but will exist in my retooling of FAsTDOG64


Oh... So it's not just getting the pupsaveconfig itself recompiled for Fatdog?

But rather that Fatdog itself needs to be made ready for such a tool?

If so I've a suggestion, «see below»

Ted Dog wrote:
Are you using a single save file or multisession mode? on multisession mode the saves are in separate compressed files using a datetime name. Those are easy to delete to return to known state if being done with USB flashdrive. The same idea exists to hide or not reload bad sessions on DVD or BluRay data disks.


I'm running a flashdrive... It didn't offer multi session, when I first saved it. And «perhaps because it's located ON the flashdrive» Fatdog couldn't find it without an kernel argument from the "savefile argument builder" utility... Though I suppose I could back it up now and then...

But now I'm curious:

1) Can a flash drive «frugal» Fatdog, use the "multi-session mode"??
1b)How?

2) How does that work anyway?: if each save file only saves the current changes, then I'm guessing that on boot, it reads all of them as a "save-file collection". In which case deleting the last savefile would be like one hadn't saved it. But I'd bet one could get intro trouble by deleting something like the 50th save file and leaving in place what was the 51st savefile. as it might depend on something in the previous save...


Quote:
You can also try to edit the single save file configuration string replacing direct with the word ram to only save back at shutdown. You need to have enough RAM to hold everything if you choose that.


Nope that wouldn't work for me unless it offered me the chance to say {no-save-this-time} at shutdown.

BTW that suggestion I mentioned:

What would be really great was if pupsaveconfig had a mode that caused the regular automatic saves to be replaced by a prominent pop-up telling you how close to running out of ram you are «maybe a percentage?» giving the user a chance to decide if his/her system is still clean enough for the save to continue. Or a reminder that if something has started to act funky that it would be wise to quickly save any external filesystem data and then shutdown/reboot without saving... Which would have to be an option at shutdown or there wouldn't be a point to the above... Just an idea...

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar 2014, 13:59    Post subject:  

It this time Fatdog64 does not allow for that shutdown choice. But multisession does work for USB but v630 was fixed like you fix a dog removed something important so USB has to be where the boot code expects and return there on shutdown or not if you do not want to save last session Rolling Eyes
Since you physically remove flashdrive it can't save...
Same deal with DVD.

The good thing with multisession and flashdrives is it better to flashdrives write once read as many times as you wish for long term use. Next session writes in unused space. There is a limit of about 100 to 200 sessions I have been warned by developers since I am the Multisession Man.. But as long as they keep releasing new versions every half year or so I haven't had a problem.
I have made the change to flashdrive based multisession as my first choice even when a rebuilt Fatdog64 can boot and load faster on a Blueray data disk..
I have found some interesting stuff with flashdrive based multisession saves. They are the same format as the large sfs files people developed to add functionality to base systems. If I use one session to compile a large program like pov-ray modeling software and save it then rename it PovRay.sfs it loads in different 64 bit not just Fatdog64 Very Happy
Also much easier to edit configure file on flashdrive to change to defualt boot Into flashdrive. Dvd requires a remaster and new burn.
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jtwdyp


Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar 2014, 02:35    Post subject:  

Ted Dog wrote:
The good thing with multisession and flashdrives is it better to flashdrives write once read as many times as you wish for long term use. Next session writes in unused space.


So if one can construct an save file kernel argument that tells the newly booted fatdog the UUID based path to the multisession save file folder. each successive save to the flashdrive would {in theory} be on virginal space, thus only written to once...Question What would such an argument look like?.

On the other hand 8 gig flash drives are cheap enough that as long as I back up my fd64save.ext4 anytime there's something new that I care about, it's easy enough to clone to a new flashdrive using your fat32 based copy, and/or for bios only use, the control panel's installer
Then use the control panels argument builder to extract the kernal argument for the savefiles new UUID location...

In fact I've got three such now. the one I use the most (since my machine is bios based) was made via the installer... The other two via the method I described in http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=762378#762378 into both of which I inserted clones of the same fd64-devx_630.sfs AND fd64save.ext4 I have on this one... Then of course, I used the argument builder to extract the save file UUID path kernel argument for pasting into the applicable boot loaders... All I gotta do, is to back up the fd64save.ext4 to an accessable HD (I own two usb external drives donchaknow) and if all of a sudden I had to rely on one of my secure-bootable fatdog flashpuppies, And it was all I could boot but I really needed to update it's save file, I could start it without the savefile. then use it to copy the archived updated savefile to it's savefile location, and run with it. (quickly making a new clone on a new flashdrive Just in case.) Otherwise, I'll only copy the savefile to the seldom used (slower booting) duel architecture flash drives if/when there is a significant change to the environment. (such as if/when a konsole, or even gnome-teminal or updated lxterminal pet that doesn't suffer the vte2 bug I mentioned in the other thread, becomes available)... Works for me... Smile

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Ted Dog


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PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar 2014, 02:54    Post subject:  

UUID subsystem has been removed for multisession. So it is more critical to be sure that the /mnt/sda1 is the same flashdrive on shutdown... I have no idea why it was removed it is critical as it is for single savefiles.


linux vmlinux safefile=direct:multi:sda1

for grub
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Ted Dog


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PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar 2014, 02:59    Post subject:  

if you got a machine with 4G or more of RAM there is a hidden easter egg I asked JamesBond to add for a project I have underway... it is cool and uber fast after boot but only works well with multisession...

let me know... you just add it to the end of the line I gave before....
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar 2014, 05:02    Post subject:  

Quote:
Fatdog64-630: Is there a pupsaveconfig pet Question Or some other way to stop automatic saves?

Pupsaveconfig = no.
Stop automatic saves = yes, sure.
Go to Control Panel --> Desktop --> Fatdog Event Manager and change the RAM Save interval to zero. Then use the big red button to save it.
Of course for this to work, you must either be using the RAM layer, or multisession, otherwise it's all moot anyway.

Quote:
1) Can a flash drive «frugal» Fatdog, use the "multi-session mode"??

Yes. Fatdog is the first (and only) puppy derivative that can do "multisession save" on flash drives (in addition to DVDs).

Quote:
UUID subsystem has been removed for multisession.
It was never removed --- multisession never supported UUID recognition. Why? Because multisession was originally meant for optical discs; and unless you have multiple optical disc drives (=a rarity); those label/uuid options are *not* useful. Yes Fatdog later extends the support for non-optical disc as well, but I don't hear that this is an issue *until now*.

Anyway, *now* that I hear from Ted that it is good to be able to use UUID for multisession (just after 630 release, doh!), I have added label/uuid support for multisession. It will be in the next release Smile

Quote:
But multisession does work for USB but v630 was fixed like you fix a dog removed something important so USB has to be where the boot code expects
Come on Ted, you didn't tell me the modification or hacks that you do to get your system to work in prior releases, and now you claim I *purposely* break your hack? I don't even remember making a major change in the system bootup scripts between 621 and 630 (that wasn't the goal for 630 anyway); the change could have come from kernel changes etc etc. Please let me know what you have done, publish the code, the patch, and then we can figure it out why it breaks. Rolling Eyes

That being the case, thanks for fielding questions about Fatdog and helping Fatdog users when we aren't here Smile

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Ted Dog


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PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar 2014, 05:33    Post subject:  

no problem glad I can confuse them when you are away..
Something changed I can't pin point it but multisession was more flexible in fd621 I was able to do non supported workarounds that no longer function in 630.. I guessing that I was tricking the savefile code to start like it was processing for a standard single file but ended up dropping through and picking up multisession settings.
Most of those unique setup strings have been lost since I have so few flashdrives. But what I was doing was non standard and not listed I FAQ. It was the complete loss of all those goodies at the same release that had me thinking you where one step ahead of me and wanted to Nip it in the bud my crazy multisession schemes. Laughing
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jtwdyp


Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar 2014, 14:23    Post subject:  

in http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=762688#762688 jamesbond wrote:
Quote:
Fatdog64-630: Is there a pupsaveconfig pet Question Or some other way to stop automatic saves?

Pupsaveconfig = no.
Stop automatic saves = yes, sure.
Go to Control Panel --> Desktop --> Fatdog Event Manager and change the RAM Save interval to zero. Then use the big red button to save it.
Of course for this to work, you must either be using the RAM layer, or multisession, otherwise it's all moot anyway.


Thanks! But since I am running in the "ram layer", I'm curious if there is some other notification that will try to warn me that I'm running low on ram Question Preferably with enough time to decide if I want to preserve what I've done in the current session via that red save button... Or not Exclamation

& if not is there a way to shut down «Short of yanking out the still running flash drive...» Without the shutdown process saving whatever it was that had caused me to decide NOT to click on the save button Question

A prompt like I get in other puppies with a pupsaveconfig setting of "+0 (ask at shutdown)" would be nice. But I could live with a default of discarding any session data I hadn't saved with the red button prior to shutting down...


Quote:
Quote:
1) Can a flash drive «frugal» Fatdog, use the "multi-session mode"??

Yes. Fatdog is the first (and only) puppy derivative that can do "multisession save" on flash drives (in addition to DVDs).


But since my FlashPuppies are all intended to be portable, multi session isn't viable for me without something like the UUID support TED says doesn't work for multisession in 630. Which is too bad because If I understand what it does, I might want to leave auto save on with it...

Quote:
Anyway, *now* that I hear from Ted that it is good to be able to use UUID for multisession (just after 630 release, doh!), I have added label/uuid support for multisession. It will be in the next release Smile


Well that in itself is a good reason to bother setting up a flash drive or two with the next release... Very Happy

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Ted Dog


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PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar 2014, 16:38    Post subject:  

Guess I should have also spoke about the loss of being able to put multisession into different sub folders and changing the prefixes ( part of that still kinda works )

I would think with the flexibility of newer fat32 base UEFI and bios mix and match you could get away with only one flashdrive..

On one of my computers it will also boot with a SDCARD in a handy bottom of laptop hidden slot same way as a USB flashdrive.
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neerajkolte


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PostPosted: Thu 06 Mar 2014, 09:48    Post subject: Savefile with dates  

I have a suggestion. I don't know how to do it so tell me if it's possible or not.
I would like to make a script which would run at boot, and copy the previous savefile in an folder and rename it with date n time. Also maybe asking me if I want to overwrite older file at that folder.
That should take care of any blunder I do with my system. This would be my own multisession script I would keep in any upgrades.
What do you think.

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu 06 Mar 2014, 12:45    Post subject:  

From an earlier JTwdyp posting wrote:
What would be really great was if pupsaveconfig had a mode that caused the regular automatic saves to be replaced by a prominent pop-up telling you how close to running out of ram you are «maybe a percentage?» giving the user a chance to decide if his/her system is still clean enough for the save to continue. Or a reminder that if something has started to act funky that it would be wise to quickly save any external filesystem data and then shutdown/reboot without saving... Which would have to be an option at shutdown or there wouldn't be a point to the above... Just an idea...
Actually, this is already done. When RAM gets critically low, a static message appears on virtual desktops indicating such.

One of the biggest problem confronting users and confronting new users coming to FATDOG is its lack of taking advantage of the SWAP partition that most PUPs and most distro activate into system operations at boot-time. This provides a much needed failsafe which is now removed for DVD users. The problem for DVD users is that the mechanism to get SWAP active is a boot-time parm buried in a "new" bootmanager implementation which is missed until the system is slowed to a crawl or locks (in appearance-behavior).

Further, ALSO, it is ONLY apparent that FATDOG will set up ONLY a SWAP file even though the HDD/USB clearly has a SWAP partition available for system use. There is NOTHING in the Control panel's SWAP utility that guide any user to employ the existing partition designed for SWAP use.

Thus all persons who understand they have a SWAP partition MUST without guidance notice that the SWAP partition was ignored and to seek methods to try to get FATDOG to boot and use the SWAP partition which is currently present. (Or to remember before the system begins exhaustive breathing in RAM usage that they must manually turn swap partition on via the command-line in a terminal.)

If FATDOG development would consider an option, I would offer to takes 01Micko's FirstRUN utility in his SLACKO64 distro, add an entry for engaging SWAP to it and either provide it at initial desktop. Or modify the Control Panel SWAP utility to uptake the partition as an option. Of course the apparent option would be to just use the partition which is present at system initiation from ISO build to DVD (in other words make the option to ignore the SWAP and "option" versus the other way around for DVD users. this is because "99 & 44/100%" of all FATDOG boots will be for productive use versus any system maintenance operations (which I believe is the argument presented for ignoring and denying SWAP use).

This is NOT criticism of FATDOG. Rather, this is an idea for improving its use by reducing the kinds of things general users have to toil over to get acceptable behavior in FATDOG.

Hope this helps everyone in understanding.

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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Thu 06 Mar 2014, 13:31    Post subject: Re: Savefile with dates  

Hello @Neerajkolte
neerajkolte wrote:
I have a suggestion. I don't know how to do it so tell me if it's possible or not.
I would like to make a script which would run at boot, and copy the previous savefile in an folder and rename it with date n time. Also maybe asking me if I want to overwrite older file at that folder.
That should take care of any blunder I do with my system. This would be my own multisession script I would keep in any upgrades.
What do you think.
This, which follows in this post, is a consideration that's slightly different from what you ask, yet might nearly address what you want without system changes.

For understanding
When a multisession system boots, it will assembles, individually, all session files found in such a way as to put you, at desktop, exactly where you were before you shutdown. And at its following shutdown, a multisession system will do so by making a "backup" of all changes that have occurred since system boot from last shutdown.

Premise
Any Multi-session savefile(s) can be opened onto the desktop at any time. Thusly, this being the case, any particular session could be opened at any time to view.

Hope this helps

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