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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Potential Replacement for XP.
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 538
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 19 Dec 2013, 08:28    Post subject:  Potential Replacement for XP.
Subject description: (But not for Puppy!)-Manjaro
 

Let me begin by stating that I relish both XP and Puppy in equal measure. I regard XP as my rock or comfort blanket and Puppy as my plaything.

Post April 2014 however, XP is likely to become the target of every hacker on this planet and it may swiftly become unfeasible to continue with it due to the security risks. Many forum members are in the same boat and will be seeking a new “rock”.

With this in mind I have trawled and tested quite a few distros, in each case doing a full install to a 16GB USB2 stick in order to compare their performance to Puppy running from the same media.

Two possible candidates emerged with ultimately a clear winner. Linux Mint 16 Cinnamon 64-bit was initially impressive with some very nice features but its performance deteriorated rapidly (with only 1GB of memory) when the proprietary graphics driver was installed. I also tested the lighter XFCE versions with the nouveau driver but they too were sluggish on the same media with my aged Pentium D 945.

Testing Manjaro 0.8.8 XFCE 64-bit I was staggered to find that its boot speed and performance was almost on a par with Puppy. That may well satisfy many Puppians with only 1GB of memory and provides a menu system most similar to JWM. I really wanted it with the heavier Cinnamon 2 DE however, plus some other features from Mint. At this point I installed extra DDR2 memory giving me a grand total of 2GB.

Whilst there is a Cinnamon community version of Manjaro (Issued 02/12/13) I found that its graphical install procedure was flawed and it is best avoided at present. It is better to install Cinnamon on the XFCE version which then gives you the option to switch between the two. This is simple to do in a terminal:

Code:
sudo pacman –S cinnamon


Manjaro is a rolling release, including kernel updates plus a regression function. A variety of desktop environments can be installed and the latest versions of Firefox, VLC and Thunderbird are always ensured.

For my own use I have so far installed the following:

Cinnamon 2 DE
Htop
Chromium 31
Xdotools
Gnome-sound-recorder
Gnome-system-monitor (As found in Mint)

Tweaks:

1. Edited fstab to give access to a 2GB swap partition on my SSD.
2. Disabled the Cinnamon screensaver and configured the included Xscreensaver 5.23 to use the superb “Endgame” saver.
3. Installed a few decent wallpapers – the default in Cinnamon is not good.

Link to short HD Video recorded with Cinnamon.
(Before clicking on play, select 1080p or 720p and full screen. It requires Firefox, Chrome or Chromium)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_iVVJCd9q09TUVFYVhLY1Z1bms/edit?pli=1
Screenshot - 181213 - 22_02_23 (Medium).JPG
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Screenshot - 181213 - 22_02_23 (Medium).JPG


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Last edited by ETP on Fri 27 Dec 2013, 14:57; edited 1 time in total
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8253

PostPosted: Thu 19 Dec 2013, 08:49    Post subject:  

Quote:
Post April 2014 however, XP is likely to become the target of every hacker on this planet and it may swiftly become unfeasible to continue with it due to the security risks.

I think you will find that's has already happened.
Indeed where's the fun in targetting a system that apparently everyone will be scrapping? Plus the exploit usually used are inherent to the standard system.

Actually my replacement for windows XP is erm windows XP...grab Nlite, Xplite or similar and remove IE, outlook, windows media player , messenger and windows updates.... forget antivirus, firewalls and zone alarm and enjoy the 8 years of no viruses that I have.

Just a suggestion.
Ps got a similar install(s) of 2000 stil happy in this way....

mike
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amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2247

PostPosted: Thu 19 Dec 2013, 08:50    Post subject:  

What do you mean by "regression function"?
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8253

PostPosted: Thu 19 Dec 2013, 08:59    Post subject:  

restore older kernel ...just my guess.....
Linux should have random kernel selectors alongside random wallpaper choosers.. Very Happy

mike
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3444
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Thu 19 Dec 2013, 10:42    Post subject:  

I fancy giving this a try, if it isn't too difficult.
[I have XP and multiple Puppies]
Is installing to a Flash Drive the best way to do it?
Seems like a good idea to me.
I have an empty 8GB Flash Drive with a FAT32 partition.
What kind of install? Full or what?
What type of file system is best?
Any installation instructions?
I don't use any bootloader; hope one isn't needed.
My almost new [2012] desktop PC has 8GB RAM [no swap partition needed].
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 538
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 19 Dec 2013, 12:50    Post subject: Potential Replacement for XP.  

Hi Sylvander,

A full install to an empty flash drive with a single ext4 partition is the safest way to try it out. You will also need an empty 4 GB SD card or USB stick formatted as FAT32.

The ISO is a hybrid so I used win32diskimager to put the bootable live media onto an SD card.

You can then boot from that and use the advanced feature of the graphical install option (an icon for this is to be found on the desktop) and install to a flash drive of at least 8GB. In my case the stick appeared as sdg1.

WARNING – Just be careful that you un-tick all references to sda, in particular the Grub2 bootloader should be put on the stick (sdg in my case).

A single mount point of / will suffice as boot, root and home will all then go onto the single ext4 partition.

The above modifies the guidance below which assumes that you are doing an advanced install to a hard drive rather than a USB stick.

http://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=Graphical_Installation_Guide_for_Experienced_Users_0.8.8

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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3444
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Thu 19 Dec 2013, 13:38    Post subject: Re: Potential Replacement for XP.  

ETP wrote:
I used win32diskimager to put the bootable live media onto an SD card.

a. To make a bootable live media:
Is it OK to make a bootable DVD+RW by burning the iso to it using Burniso2cd within Puppy?

b. Can I put "it" [what is "it" that I should put?] on a Flash Drive rather than an SD card?

c. Within which OS should I run win32diskmanager.
XP?
Does XP natively include this?
Or would I need to find an installation exe file and install it to XP?
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 538
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 19 Dec 2013, 14:59    Post subject: Re: Potential Replacement for XP.  

Sylvander wrote:
ETP wrote:
I used win32diskimager to put the bootable live media onto an SD card.

a. To make a bootable live media:
Is it OK to make a bootable DVD+RW by burning the iso to it using Burniso2cd within Puppy?

b. Can I put "it" [what is "it" that I should put?] on a Flash Drive rather than an SD card?

c. Within which OS should I run win32diskmanager.
XP?
Does XP natively include this?
Or would I need to find an installation exe file and install it to XP?

a. Yes. If you do, you can install to a flash drive from that. Win32diskimager is an XP application used to burn an img file or hybrid ISO to a stick or card which makes it then behave as if it were a CD or DVD. It saves burning the ISO.

If your CD writer ever fails or you are using a laptop with no optical drive you can find a copy on my server.

http://mydrive.ch (Switzerland)
Guest login name = maddog@puppy4
Password= maddog

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Dean


Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 47
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013, 01:52    Post subject:  

ETP,
Build your own Manjaro with the Net Edition Wink

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HP 510 Notebook CPU 1.4 GHz Pentium M / RAM 2GB / 15.4" WXGA BrightView 1280 x 800 / 40GB HD / OS Manjaro 0.8.8
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 538
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013, 05:22    Post subject: Potential Replacement for XP.  

Dean wrote:
ETP,
Build your own Manjaro with the Net Edition Wink

Dean,
Thanks for highlighting the Net Edition which I should have mentioned. It is in effect a “barebones” solution for anyone wanting to build a lighter weight version of Manjaro. I gather that they also have some sort of ISO remaster utility.

I note from your signature panel that you have Manjaro on your HP 510. You may wish to share your experience of it in this thread for the benefit of others.

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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3444
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013, 05:24    Post subject:  

1. Used Burniso2cd to burn the ISO to a DVD+RW.
SUCCESS.

2. Rebooted with the DVD in place.
Chose option 1 = load Manjaro.
It began to load.

3. Lots of processes scrolling down the screen.
Lots of FAIL's listed.
Took a VERY LONG TIME, and seemed to be making no progress.
It was repeatedly attempting to logon, and failing.

4. Eventually I gave up...
Held in the on/off button to power off.
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 538
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013, 05:58    Post subject: Potential Replacement for XP.  

Hi Sylvander,
I can only suggest that you try what worked for me - i.e. use Win32diskimager to write the live ISO to a SD card or USB stick.

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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3444
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013, 08:03    Post subject:  

OK, will try that. Very Happy
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3444
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013, 10:11    Post subject:  

1. I'm struggling on WinXP.
a. Couldn't find Win32diskimager anywhere in XP.

b. Installed Imgburn [which I've used before and liked], and used it to burn the ISO image to a good DVD+RW.

c. Booted the DVD.
The desktop failed to boot it.
Tried hitting F11 to manually choose the boot device.
None of the F buttons would do ANYTHING with this DVD in the drive.
The desktop booted into XP, regardless of the DVD being in the optical drive.

d. The above [c] had me worried...
Had something in the UEFI BIOS been altered by XP or the DVD it made?
Would my Puppy CD-RW's still boot ok?
Well, they did, so that's a relief.

e. Tried to find an exe installation file on the web for Win32diskimager, to download and install.
All I could find was a zip file.
Downloaded it, extracted it, an exe [program?] file was included.
Thought maybe it was a portable program...
Ran it, kind of primitive, wouldn't allow me to choose an optical disk to write to.
I believe it only writes to memory cards and Flash Drives, not optical disks.
Erased all of the files.
If I use it to write the ISO to a Flash Drive, will that [Flash Drive] be bootable?
What about the bootloader?
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 538
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:04    Post subject: Potential Replacement for XP.  

Hi Sylvander,

That’s 2 cd writing programs that have failed to produce a bootable DVD. Did you confirm the checksum of the ISO download?

Quote:
e. Tried to find an exe installation file on the web for Win32diskimager, to download and install.
All I could find was a zip file.
Downloaded it, extracted it, an exe [program?] file was included.
Thought maybe it was a portable program...
Ran it, kind of primitive, wouldn't allow me to choose an optical disk to write to.
I believe it only writes to memory cards and Flash Drives, not optical disks.
Erased all of the files.
If I use it to write the ISO to a Flash Drive, will that [Flash Drive] be bootable?
What about the bootloader?


In my previous post I advised you to obtain the version of Win32diskimager that I used from my server and gave you the login name and password. If you have obtained a later version from say sourceforge I cannot vouch for it as I have not tested it.

The version on the server is 0.7. It does not need installing, just extracting. It is not native to XP. To launch it click on Win32DiskImager.exe in the extracted directory.

It does not write to an optical disk. It is used to write an img file or ISO to a SD card or flash drive which will be bootable.

Once you get the hang of it you will probably never burn another DVD as you can also clone a device with it. That image can then be written to another device.

From the point of view of just writing an ISO image to a stick or card it is the windows equivalent of the Linux DD command.

When you browse for the image to write within the tool (i.e. the Manjaro ISO) make sure you select *.* as it defaults to *.img.

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