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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013, 16:42    Post_subject:  

Hi, Anikin,
Quote:
The result was an obscenely huge Wheezy. I got stuff, I didn't ask for, like the latest Iceweasel. Perhaps, I should have stopped at minimal system upgrade - will check that later on. Although, a question is nagging me - when something is removed from the original ISO during "reverse engineering" - is that removal reflected in sources.list? I will continue experimenting with apt-get and dpkg and do 'selective' upgrades. I'm more interested in upgrading via installing self-compiled stuff from Debian sources.

Instead:
Code:
apt-get upgrade
apt-get dist-upgrade

Try this (after change /etc/apt/sources.list & apt-get update):
Code:
apt-cache search linux-image
apt-get install linux-image-*******   - for selected version
apt-get install localepurge   - only selected licale installed, others purged

it's preferrable form for all next installations:
apt-get install --not-install-recommends <SELECTED-MODULE-OR-PROGRAM>

Code:
apt-get install network-manager
apt-get install xserver-xorg
apt-get install xorg
apt-get install <PREFERRED-DESKTOP-ENVIRONMENT>
ad so on (for example only):
apt-get install wget
apt-get install mc
apt-get install xxkb
apt-get install leafpad
apt-get install gpicview
apt-get install dillo

With --not-install-recommends Iceweasel will definitely not be installed, as well as many other components you did not want.

It's certainly a longer path than apt-get upgrade and apt-get dist-upgrade.
But greater control and as a result of the smaller size of the resulting distribution.
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013, 17:45    Post_subject: xfe vs rox vs ...  

If we remember that the live-Debian is a modular system (because of the use squashfs + live), the discussion about PREFERRED desktops and many programs would be senseless.
In DIR /live/ may be other SYSTEM modules that are loaded with the base module.
For example: openbox.squashfs lxde.squashfs
Will need to add scripts to switch between these desktops.
These modules are already in the repositories Puppy, you just have to choose the most suitable and rename them *.sfs --> *.squashfs or *.pet --> *.squashfs
Of course not all modules will be 100% effective but should be tested.
Can successfully load-&-use up to 7 *.squashfs modules from this DIR.
Programs in the form of *.sfs can be loaded from the neighboring DIR /_sfs - this is what I wrote earlier.

Let Xfe remains basic minimum desktop environment.
And everything else - the choice and preferences of the user.

Hi, stu91
Heaviest weight - it certainly graphical desktop environment with all that it serves (and not visible to the user) .
With the addition of the small size of the facilities of this environment increases geometrically.
Think about how much space and resources requires Gnome desktop .
Should pay for everything, but respecting proportionality. Right?
Pay attention to the following:
the largest size is not /bin /lib but /usr/lib and /usr/share
Finding balance convenience price many developers are busy .
But leaders like Canonical pushing us in the other direction.
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013, 18:24    Post_subject:  

sklimkin; Very helpful of you, many thanks for your input.
I agree about Ubuntu, they`re innovative, but it`s worry some also. Where`s it going to.?

# Rox installed & working on Saintless`s Wheezy, shows icons and wallpaper.
( It`s scary how well everything works, not use to this in Puppy. )

Stuff in odd places, like sda3 not mounted at /mnt/sda3 ... What, /mnt not good enough now?

# Need to change default editor from sensible-editor to xfwrite


# Q: How to set screen resolution, or what app to install to do this.?

# Q: Where is the Wheezy default apps setup located at.?

# Q: What is the Wheezy file to "late run" apps.? ( need to run: Rox -p ... )


# A: Wheezy JWM menu files (2) located at: /etc/jwm
......... Changed menu items They did stay after reboot.

# A: File to add code to do early boot items. ( mounting, make links, etc.)
......... File is: /etc/init.d/rc.local
.

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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013, 20:08    Post_subject:  

Quote:
# Got rox working on Saintless`s Wheezy, shows icons and wallpaper.
( It`s scary how well everything works, not use to this in Puppy. )


Great one Sunburnt, would that mean Roxterm will work from the wheezy repository?

I always love higlighting bits of code on this site and just pasting it into roxterm, fastest way of testing things. Plus it looks good with the tango background.

Like the pace here, slow and methodical Wink
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013, 21:31    Post_subject:  

Smithy; Yes, I installed these apps:
apt-get install rox-filer
apt-get install mtpaint
apt-get install iceweasel

# I`m liking this a lot. Some stuff`s odd, & dealing with permissions is trying.

Now if I can just learn the file where Rox is started in the boot sequence,
then I can make it come up automatically at boot.

All the Rox icons work, and I have the Rox menu [Send To...] filled with apps.
The JWM menu has Reboot & Shutdown on it, and IceWeasel, Rox, Xfe, etc.
And I changed the sub menu by eliminating the [Applications] middle part.

Here`s the Wheezy Rox desktop ( Looks just like my Puppy, but no tray yet ):
Wheezy_Rox.png
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Wheezy_Rox.png


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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2579
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 01:47    Post_subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Here`s the Wheezy Rox desktop ( Looks just like my Puppy, but no tray yet ):

Hi, Sunburnt, like it a lot Smile
In the previous version of JWM in Squeezy you can start Rox Desktop this way:

Edit /etc/menu-methods/jwm this way:

Code:
<!-- Additional Swallow attribute -->\n\
<Swallow name=\"start rox pinboard \" >\n\
rox -p --pinboard=PIN\n\
</Swallow>\n\

Note this Debian JWM is configured different way to save changes.
If you make the changes in jwmrc they will dissapear after running:
Code:
update-menus

You can check for problems in JWM configuration this way:
Code:
jwm -p

You can try just to add this in jwmrc file
Edit /etc/jwm/jwmrc this way:
Code:
<Swallow name="start rox pinboard " >
rox -p --pinboard=PIN
</Swallow>

Unfortunately Wheezy is different and the configuration files are a little bit changed. Haven't experimented with them yet.

There is a package called menu which adds menu entry in Debian menu after installing programs. It also adds the changes made in JWM configuratin + the changes in /usr/share/menu Take a look at the content there.
Hope it helps a little. I will answer your other questions in the next post.

If you like to experiment without breaking JWM configuration place a copy of jwmrc in /root/.jwmrc (there is dot infront jwmrc) And do the changes there using restart menu button. The problem in this configuration is menu program will not save the changes in /root/.jwmrc but it is good for testing.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2579
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 02:02    Post_subject:  

#Stuff in odd places, like sda3 not mounted at /mnt/sda3 ... What, /mnt not good enough now?
/media is the default mounting place in debian. No problem to mount what you like in /mnt

# Q: How to set screen resolution, or what app to install to do this.?

Install Xrandr or this way by creating xorg.conf file:
http://foxyroxylinux.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=165


# Q: What is the Wheezy file to "late run" apps.? ( need to run: Rox -p ... )
In the previous post is the answer. You can try also a script in /etc/profile.d but I'm think the command will be executed before entering X and it will not work.


# A: File to add code to do early boot items. ( mounting, make links, etc.)
......... File is: /etc/init.d/rc.local

Thanks for this. I guess this can solve the problem to use save file on the boot partition. I will check out this option.

Cheers, Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2579
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 02:17    Post_subject: Re: xfe vs rox vs ...  

sklimkin wrote:
If we remember that the live-Debian is a modular system (because of the use squashfs + live), the discussion about PREFERRED desktops and many programs would be senseless.
In DIR /live/ may be other SYSTEM modules that are loaded with the base module.
For example: openbox.squashfs lxde.squashfs
Will need to add scripts to switch between these desktops.
These modules are already in the repositories Puppy, you just have to choose the most suitable and rename them *.sfs --> *.squashfs or *.pet --> *.squashfs
Of course not all modules will be 100% effective but should be tested.
Can successfully load-&-use up to 7 *.squashfs modules from this DIR.
Programs in the form of *.sfs can be loaded from the neighboring DIR /_sfs - this is what I wrote earlier.

Privet, Sergey,
Thanks for the pointers and I agree with all, but I see a small problem in adding SFS files this way - it can break the dpkg database and apt-get.
If you load only the base core + different SFS files it is OK. It is much mor better if the files are from Puppy and work on Debian. They will not take effect on dpkg database.
If we load 01-base.sfs and we apt-get a program to create 02-extra.sfs and then 03-extra.sfs they will work fine.

If we load only 01-base.sfs + 02-base.sfs and create from this point 04-extra.sfs it will also work fine.
But if we decide then to load 01+02+03+04-sfs - dpkg database will not have any information about 03-extra.sfs because it was not loaded while creating 04-extra.sfs
I'm sure it is already solved from the russian team and I know JBV solved it for FoxyRoxyLinux, so it will not be a problem to use something similar here.
Poka, Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2579
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 02:29    Post_subject:  

stu91 wrote:
@saintless - is there some reason you build the other way starting with a debian iso and removing?


Hi, Stu91,

thank you for sharing your results. My reason to start with bigger base is to learn better how to remove packages from read-only live system. I doubt I could get much experience in that if I work with minimal setup. I also doubt I will make smaller core from minimal setup, but I will try soon.

Cheers, Toni

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 03:08    Post_subject:  

Saintless; rc.local is not that early in the boot process.

The Save file is mounted earlier than that I`m sure.
In Puppy it`s mounted in the very first script: init
But where it`s mounted in Debian I have no idea.

Some of the How To "run apps at boot" web info talk about run levels.
This is may be the way to mount: live-rw


### Update: Got Saintless`s code to work. Look at new desktop pix above.
Wheezy now boots to the Rox desktop with full icons displayed.

### Can someone tutor me on getting tray apps to work.?
.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 04:05    Post_subject:  

sunburnt from my noob perspective I surely agree with you on this

Quote:
dealing with permissions is trying.


Okay most people will get it after practice
but I totally fail and try to avoid doing permissions like the plague.

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 04:47    Post_subject:  

Hi nooby; Hope you`re doing well my friend. "God Jul."
Say... How difficult is it to immigrate to Sweden.? The U.S. is heading for disaster...


In Puppyizing Debian, it`ll be a case of bit by bit hacking of some of it`s protections.

# I made scripts for Rox`s "Send To" that run sudo, like: sudo xfwrite $@
Now I can edit most any file without getting protection errors.

# I don`t know if Xfe filer is going to work out so well, it`s inflexible and hard to use.
Installed arander gui for xrander and it`s no help at all. # Need a gui to set resolution.
But arander installed Python, so maybe try installing PcManFM for a test.
.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 05:39    Post_subject:  

sunburnt I know too little for to give good advice on such.
No criticism to you I love that you care about me. Much appreciated.

But to be fair to Toni and everybody else active in the thread. Smile

Back to the topic.

So if I get it. Squeeze is much easier to make small
but have another repo than Wheezy that is much bigger
but have modern kernels and updated programs in it's repo

So we need both then? Am I right Smile

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2579
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 06:09    Post_subject:  

nooby wrote:
So we need both then? Am I right Smile


Hi, Nooby,
I don't know who will need both exactly. You can put it this way:
Squeeze version - for old + new hardware, but old versions programs for old computers.
Wheezy version - for new hardware but new versions of programs, too much RAM hungry programs. I can't use Iceweasel at all on my computer from Wheezy version.

I need mostly Squeeze. Wheezy I hope will become modern brother of puppy linux. Maybe not from the version I made but it seems it heading this direction and nobody can stop it now Smile

Sunburnt, thank you for what you are doing. I would never do it as fast and as good as you will.

Cheers, Toni
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 08:52    Post_subject: Translate rus-->eng  

Hi, Sunburnt,
Here's my promise to you:
Quote:

For not-russian users: Some features of the use of sfs-linux
============================================================
Aurhor of the sfs-linux addressed their version Russian-speaking (and writing) Linux OS users and interface system originally Russified. In this case there are no obstacles to change the interface such as English or other European language.
Author once expressed that outside of Russia (eg Western Europe) it has not received a response to his of published.

I am one of the users (and testers and even fans) of sfs-linux.
Finding interest in the development of Linux users who do not know Russian language, I took the liberty to translate into English some of the interesting features of the system sfs-linux.

This is a free translation into English: ambiguities may arise in connection with different semantics in Russian and English languages, as well as some use different jargon. (Sergey Klimkin, Moscow, Russia)

Main autors page (author's nickname is "sfs"):
http://uco.puppyrus.org/forum/thread176.html
and its latest development (PuppyRusArch), together with the team puppyrs.org:
http://forum.puppyrus.org/index.php/board,154.0.html

sfsl is a debian+puppy linux clone
----------------------------------
Authors remark: "SFSLinux = attempt to make deb puppy. apt-get for puppy"

Minimalist direction: Debian with jwm, openbox. For experienced users, for the old equipment.
Main: multi-kernel (kernel can be changed) and a working prototype script remaster
With 'frugal' (based on live-boot) and software as a plug-in squashfs.
Can work from: CD, USB-flash, HDD.

sfsl-c-120129.iso - debian CrunchBang based
http://uco.puppyrus.org/go/url=http://www.mediafire.com/--q--478yb27wd7bq6s9

sfsl-ds-120425.iso - debian-stable based
http://uco.puppyrus.org/go/url=http://www.mediafire.com/file/va59p7kp1j9tapm/sfsl-ds-120425.iso

sfsl-ds-120530.iso - - debian-stable based
http://uco.puppyrus.org/go/url=http://www.mediafire.com/file/j5x683fl9utcrk2/sfsl-ds-120530.iso

sfsl-c_vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-686.tar.bz2 - kernel
http://uco.puppyrus.org/go/url=http://www.mediafire.com/--q--u3k5vhw2367q3x6
sfsl-c_vmlinuz-3.2.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae.tar.bz2 - kernel
http://uco.puppyrus.org/go/url=http://www.mediafire.com/--q--oo7l12y6dq99yv8

openbox-3.5.0ru-i486s.sfs - as desktop environment
http://uco.puppyrus.org/go/url=http://www.mediafire.com/--q--yvyf4rdxr87bmo2
tint2-2-0.11g4-xz.sfs - system monitor
http://uco.puppyrus.org/go/url=http://ubuntuone.com/7CA1ieKkxUY7gDioImv8i1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The easiest recipe for creating your module:
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install <PROGRAM>
sudo live-snapshot-t squashfs
Generally such a module would be good:
unsquashfs
clean / var; / usr / share doc, locale, etc.,
and then repack: mksquashfs ...

To live-sn.squashfs appeared immediately in the right place:
live-snapshot-o ...
Looks like I understood the meaning of live-sn.squashfs:
Frozen save-version.
If something is updated - doing a new one. If something messed up - overloads - and all in original condition.
About what is done in LupuRusBit "eternally alive puppy".

So it turns out that species conservation 3:
live-sn.cpio.gz - (rw read + write), dynamic dimension, with're compressing
live-sn.squashfs - (ro read-only), with're compressing
live-rw (optional home-rw) - (rw read + write), fixed size, without compression
and everywhere instead of a file, you can use a disk partition.
Looks like you can also combine them ...

I think the optimum live-sn.cpio.gz. Change happens when you reboot and shutdown. Want to insure - before shutting rename live-sn ***. Cpio.gz. The system will create a new one.

sfsl-w (debian wheezy verson):
------------------------------
During testing remaster (new version), gathered wheezy
To run it, replace in previous ISO: zz-* sfsl-c.squashfs --> zz-* sfsl-w.squashfs

And to collect it manually - code for terminal:
sudo sed -i 's/squeeze/wheezy/g;s/stable/testing/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
remaster

Saving in all versions of the sfsl same: use the same package live-boot.
All forms of saving, except live-sn.squashfs must be in root of the ext partition (root of the ISO-image).
live-sn.squashfs - should be in the same place where the base system.
If there are any problems with my GUI-snapshot, use the command in a terminal:
live-snapshot-t squashfs

But live-sn.squashfs can bring problems.
I advise you to use live-sn.cpio.gz - it is safer.
Do not forget the layers AUFS-systems: first *.squashfs alphabetically, then *.sfs

*-rw saving - ext-filesystem is packed into a file.
*-rw saving so you can mount:
mount *-rw / <INTO>-o loop

If there is a kernel parameter "persistent" (in line 'kernel' or 'append' loader file system) - loaded "live-sn.cpio.gz" "live-rw" "home-rw" (if they exist).
They must lie at the root of the media ext-partition.
Combine cpio.gz c rw not tried.
When additional kernel parameters "persistent-subtext = sfsc", as files (or partitions) used conservation: "live-sn-sfsc.cpio.gz" "live-rw-sfssc" "home-rw-sfssc".
Instead sfsc can write something else - by the user. Thus it is possible to have different save-files.

With the advent of the system script "sfs-get" (manager of the *.sfs user modules), I think that is not correct to connect the modules all at once, but by the need to:
sfs-get module-name.sfs
There is a variant of the automounter: rename *.sfs --> *.squashfs and put in /live.
The priority of the loading from /live - in alphabetical order. Base modules zz * must be at the end of the loading (so their names start with the letter "z").

Options for auto-loading modules *.sfs in the system sfs-linux
-------------------------------------------------- -----------
A. automounting modules *.sfs
1.Create in the root partition with a downloadable distribution DIR /_sfs ( directory name can be anything, but all the same)
2.Move into all modules *.sfs
3.In the kernel parameters (loader file) prescribe "sfsdir=_sfs"
The rest of the kernel parameters do not affect to auto-mount. Mounts the file /etc/rc.local

B. Alternative - rename modules *.squashfs and put in a folder with the same modules of the distributive.
Loaded in alphabetical order (in the presence of duplicate files - will be on the last of Alfabet module)
With this one I've had the problem of not working for the modules to system crash on loading.

C. Set in startup or run in a terminal;
automntsfs /media/sda1/_sfs
(path and folder location - any available for system)

Prescribe a program to autostart sfsl-up:
1. Create <LABEL>.desktop ( eg in text-editor)
2 . Put *.desktop in DIR /home/q/.config/autostart
To start from the root - put in the field Exec=sudo YOUR_PROGRAM

Manufacturing module *.sfs
--------------------------
Recipe 1 (complex, below there are 2 easier, but then get a larger in size module)
1. In DIR /live/cow system stores all you have made changes after loading
2 . boot system without save-files (save-partitions)
3 . sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get - no-install-recommends install "YOUR-PROGRAM"
4 . Make sure that the program is working
5 . Analyze /live/cow and /var/cache/apt (here stored downloaded *.deb packages)
6. Copy /live/cow on ext*-partition in a directory sfs-tmp (or any other name)
7. boot system without save-files (save-partitions)
8. Copy from sfs-tmp into system <main-executable-file-of-program>
9. ldd `which <main-executable-file-of-program> ` | grep no
10. Add missing libraries of sfs-tmp into system
11. Make sure that the program is working
12. All copied from sfs-tmp into system, preserving the structure DIR's rewrite on ext *-partition of the DIR sfs-tmp2 (name, you can select any other). Correct LABEL.desktop (in /usr/share/applications), make sure that the program and its icon appears in the right place at the menu
13. mksquashfs sfs-tmp2 PROGRAM-NAME_VERSION.sfs -comp xz-Xbcj x86.
-comp xz only for kernels > 2.6.38 . Give greater compression module , but will increase the runtime mksquashfs

You can find any software of any distribution on http://pkgs.org and fabricate modules.
But if the software is available for installation via apt, it is the best way

Manufacturing module *. Sfs
--------------------------
Recipe 2 (for those who complicated recipe 1)
1. sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get -d --no-install-recommends install "YOUR-PROGRAM"
2. mkdir sfs-tmp2. Unpack downloaded in the mc /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb in sfs-tmp2, keeping the folders structure
3. Optional item: comprehend content sfs-tmp2, remove superfluous (alien locale unnecessary docks, ...)
4. mksquashfs sfs-tmp2 PROGRAM-NAME_VERSION.sfs-comp xz-Xbcj x86

The increase in the save file *-rw:
-----------------------------------
1. Create file live-rw-2 (instead of "2" can be anything else)
2. sudo mkdir /mnt/rw1;sudo mkdir /mnt/rw2
sudo mount <PATH-TO>/live-rw /mnt/rw1 -o loop
sudo mount <PATH-TO>/live-rw-2 /mnt/rw2 -o loop
3. Rewrite of the live-rw in live-rw-2
4. mv live-rw2 live-rw
or tweak the configuration file in grub4dos

The alternative - to move "fatty directory" from -rw to the free space (preferably to the ext*-partition, otherwise the files will be lost right)
and make a sym-link (ln-s or in mc: ctrl + x + s)
Do not be carried in preserving large files!

As of sfsl FRUGAL do sfsl FULL
------------------------------
My opinion - then lost the main idea.
Better install a normal distribution, and finished it (who you have enough knowledge for this).

But if you are one user at a stationary PC and do not tend to experiment:
1. partitioning your hard disk. You need at least one ext* partition for / and a swap partition
2. install the Linux boot loader, or use an existing. Installation utility for grub4dos You can find in ISO-image /boot/grub4dos/install
3. load sfsl with all modules you need and Your save-file (if exists)
4. rewrite all to prepared partition. Do not forget about the kernel and initrd
5. improve the standard boot loader (NOT live-boot kernel parameters).
for example: /boot/vmlinuz1 root=UUID=4db63c04-36a5-4da3-862e-c3aa82c48fd3 ro quiet splash

(booting with a file save and in mc copy all files from the root section (hard perversion)).

Manufacturing sfs-module with user settings
-------------------------------------------
Optimally, do not make save-file, but make the module with user settings and modules with user-installed software.
Create module "User Settings" - perhaps the first thing to do:
1. sudo-s
2. mkdir -p /tmp/tmp && cp -R /home/q /tmp/tmpp
3. clean caches, etc.
4. mksquashfs /tmp/tmp USER_SETTINGS.sfs

Here is an example kernel boot line with keys menu.lst file loader grub4dos:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
kernel /_sfsl/live/vmlinuz320 live-media-path=/_sfsl/live/up quickusbmodules boot=live config persistent persistent-subtext=sfsc quickreboot debug swapon mountall sfsdir=_sfs
where:
persistent-subtext=sfsc подключить файл сохранения *-sfsc* (instead of * - symbols depending on the type save-file)
mountall sfsdir=_sfs - подключить модули *.sfs from the boot partition from the folder /_sfs

Lots of letters / words, sorry for the long post.
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