Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

[fredx181]

#!/bin/bash
#set -x

[ "`whoami`" != "root" ] && exec gsu ${0}

export LC_ALL=C

And works for any drive without permissions problem. I will leave it this way.

Ok, I'll do the same.
Also for the video2audio-x script.

Fred

[saintless]

I am almost ready for making new iso now so tell me when you are.

I'm ready with all the changes I plan to include for now, Fred, but I suggest to test one more day to see if we can find something for fixing.
If all is OK I will need few hours to build the iso after you post download link for OpenBox version.

Toni

[saintless]

Hi, Fred.
Uploaded sns deb package with added also gsu line. Use this one in /opt/apps:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Fredx181/sns_2.1.1-1.deb
And add the same line in the beginning in /opt/bin/change-frisbee2sns:

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[ "`whoami`" != "root" ] && exec gsu ${0}

Toni

[saintless]

Hi, William.

Reading again your post here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 828#778828
I think the new iso will include all your points there. pet2sfs and pet2deb will give option for quick, easy and safe way to test and install pet packages (single pet or folder wit pet packages)

This one:

3. Some mechanism/utility for taking a standard apt package and trimming the fat (as it is called in Puppy) for later addition to DebianDog using methods such as in 1. and 2. above. We already have Apt2sfs from Fred, but I don't think that trims out any of the bloat first.

Is available and apt2sfs, remasterdog and remastercow clean the deb packages better than puppy method.
Removing dependencies that are not needed for the basic program to work will be real solution. This can be automated by removing all dependencies from control file but the result will be non working deb package in most cases that needs manually installing some of the dependencies. I will think about this but for now I do not see 100% working method. It will be safe with sure but not working for all debian packages, but the point is to have all downloaded from debian repository working.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Hi, William.

Reading again your post here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 828#778828
I think the new iso will include all your points there. pet2sfs and pet2deb will give option for quick, easy and safe way to test and install pet packages (single pet or folder wit pet packages)

This one:

3. Some mechanism/utility for taking a standard apt package and trimming the fat (as it is called in Puppy) for later addition to DebianDog using methods such as in 1. and 2. above. We already have Apt2sfs from Fred, but I don't think that trims out any of the bloat first.

Is available and apt2sfs, remasterdog and remastercow clean the deb packages better than puppy method.

...

Toni

Yes, the more I use DebianDog, and bearing in mind your new pet2--- additions, the more I think it provides all these facilities now. Now I find DebianDog a really great environment for experimenting and producing home-grown apps and utilities, most of which can be readily ported back to Puppy itself and yet remain fully multi-user capable.

[fredx181]

Hi Toni,
Here's new openbox_xfce iso.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCD ... sp=sharing
Added your latest additions (SNS and others with gsu line)

The size is a bit smaller because of smaller firefox version 27 (and maybe because of smaller gnome-mplayer)
The firefox version 28 which was in previous release had terrible behaviour: upgrading without asking.

Can you give it a quick try on your monster ?
Specially because I had some problems again loading the icons in system-tray so needed to add more sleep time in autostart script.

Live-snapshot I didn't include because I think it needs more testing and also I'm not sure if it is a useful addition, we have porteus-boot with save on exit supporting file deletion which live-snapshot doesn't AFAIK.

Fred

[saintless]

Hi, Fred.
I get wallpaper and icons for user and root without troubles two reboots. Video works for user and root. I will try to test it a bit more in the next hours.
Now compressing Jwm main module and will re-upload both versions tonight with message in the thread.

About live-snapshot it is up to you, Fred, but I think it is different save option from porteus save on exit and snap changes when you need only. Yes, it does not support deleted (wh) files that are in the main module (uninstalling programs for example). But it keeps all other changes, including changed files from the main module.
live-sn.cpio.gz is read-write compressed save file only few k in size and it changes its size depending of the changes you make. It is perfect for saving system settings on flash-drive for example. And you can keep many different name small files with different settings for different machines and load the one you need only. You can also use live-sn with live-rw save file or partition at the same time. You know I use mostly live-boot-2x and it is good option for my needs.

I will try to add the new utilities in the next days in the thread and I think we are close to Alpha version. At least I see nothing special at the moment to be added for next DebianDog.

Toni

[fredx181]

I get wallpaper and icons for user and root without troubles two reboots. Video works for user and root.

Alright!!

About live-snapshot it is up to you, Fred, but I think it is different save option from porteus save on exit and snap changes when you need only. Yes, it does not support deleted (wh) files that are in the main module (uninstalling programs for example). But it keeps all other changes, including changed files from the main module.
live-sn.cpio.gz is read-write compressed save file only few k in size and it changes its size depending of the changes you make. It is perfect for saving system settings on flash-drive for example. And you can keep many different name small files with different settings for different machines and load the one you need only. You can also use live-sn with live-rw save file or partition at the same time. You know I use mostly live-boot-2x and it is good option for my needs.

Ok, thanks for the info, it's new for me.

I think we are close to Alpha version

I think also, the changes we made now were mostly additions, very little real fixes.
A nice addition btw could be menu entry for flash-player-install.

Fred

[saintless]

Hi, Fred.
Both iso replaced and information about the changes posted in the thread.

A nice addition btw could be menu entry for flash-player-install.

Is it enough for example menu entry pointing to script with option and information similar to change-netmanager and running:

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apt-get update
apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree

Toni

[stemsee]

I converted my wine-1.7.19.pet to .deb using your pet2deb and installed it and installed xbmc.exe 13 on that. Two finger touch works on my sentelic fingerpad. Booted both on fatdog initrd and my 3.14.5 kernel and debian 3.14-pae-bpo. Played some Brahms and Bela Fleck and the Flektones 'greatest hits of the twentieth century' So far very good. Installed sns and some firmware. Impressive.

Edit: I had to run 'Diagnostics' on Frisbee before wlan would show any networks ... in case someone else has the same issue.

[mcewanw]

Live-snapshot I didn't include because I think it needs more testing and also I'm not sure if it is a useful addition, we have porteus-boot with save on exit supporting file deletion which live-snapshot doesn't AFAIK.

Fred

I think it should be included, though I don't think it should have a menu item if the boot method is not the usual one for the particular debiandog (in this case openbox version). Afterall, the size is tiny, and there may well be some users who will prefer the alternative boot strategies, and these flexible alternative boot strategies are core concepts underlying all debiandog developments so far - it would be a pity to diverge from that since ultimately the strength of this project stems from its collaborative development effort.

Otherwise, you encourage forks and derivatives, which is fine but can be confusing and water down the development effort since it ends up being spread amongst the derivatives and individually tailored forks - becomes then difficult to keep track of any potential improvements/fixes that have been implemented in other derivatives.

There will always be forks and derivatives (even if just loose ones) because some will want to change some things and go it alone, but surest development, I feel, lies in collaborative core rather than individual choice. However, that is different from development decisions by committee or forum, which is too loose since casual users often haven't familiarised themselves with all the development issues.

Of course, DebianDog itself, to a large extent is 'just' a derivative of Debian live, but it is a particularly tailored one, taking as it does ideas from Puppy, Porteus and so on, to produce quite an individual flavour.

Personally, I'm happy xhippo, with its front and backend scripts, continues to be used in core because it provides a relatively tiny multimedia system (which could be adjusted to use, for example, mplayer or vlc underneath). Being tiny it doesn't really cost anything to include it, whether a user decides to install/use some other multimedia system altogether or not (and the sfs activation tools makes that even easier). If something smaller, but better or more flexible comes along, then of course that should be adopted - but it is good to have a stable and consistent core in all debiandog releases IMO.

[mcewanw]

Puppy is a great system, but it has long been known that it has two particular weaknesses, which were both the result of early development decisions.

1. It was developed as root user only, which is a pity, because the extra effort involved in keeping any Linux system multiuser is worth investing in. Certainly, it made it easy to write simple apps and programs for Puppy since there were never issues concerning not having sufficient access rights or permissions to underlying system utilities or storage areas - no sudoers rights to be concerned with and so on. But that encouraged program creation which were not easily ported to other Linux systems and, as was later discovered at cost - some applications don't like to be run as root. Now that a new wave of Puppy is being developed, making it multiuser should be a priority with that hindsight.

2. The other well-known problem has been package management issues, particularly issues concerning poor ability to track and resolve dependencies. One way out of that is to use an established repository system and tools, such as dpkg, but I'm not myself against Puppy using its own repository and tools since they can be specially tailored for small size. I do note, however, that the largest push in Puppy developement isn't so far away from DebianDog in terms of its movement - albeit involving build system Woof. I imagine that some of the developments documented in this thread will be read and found useful in these Puppy developments - all distributions are ultimately collaborative, whether acknowledged or not.

[mcewanw]

SFR has pointed out a bug that effects both xrecond and pavrecord. It's an old re-surfaced issue, first discussed on this forum in 2009, that seemed to depend on arecord version. I'll work on that today if I find time and post updated versions, so maybe best to hold back on next iso release till that fix posted.

Cheers, William

[saintless]

I had to run 'Diagnostics' on Frisbee before wlan would show any networks ... in case someone else has the same issue.

Thank you, wireless test reports are something we do not get often.

[saintless]

Hi, William.

I think it should be included, though I don't think it should have a menu item if the boot method is not the usual one for the particular debiandog (in this case openbox version).

Menu entry is proper at least for Jwm version at the moment. Live-snapshot default setup makes snapshot from /live/cow (but it can be changed to $HOME/ or different directory). In Jwm version we have /live/cow by default for live-boot-2x and porteus-boot + cow-nosave, cow-savefile, cow-savepart scripts that will create /live/cow for live-boot-3x with single click (this will give option also to use RemasterCow with live-boot-3x and it was not possible with previous iso).
In general you can use Utility - Snapshot Make (or live-snapshot) to create snapshot with changes from all boot methods. But you can load this snapshot on boot only with live-boot-2x. The program has warning it should be used with live-boot-2x.

SFR has pointed out a bug that effects both xrecond and pavrecord. It's an old re-surfaced issue, first discussed on this forum in 2009, that seemed to depend on arecord version. I'll work on that today if I find time and post updated versions, so maybe best to hold back on next iso release till that fix posted.

I guess you mean next iso for future one, because yesterday both iso versions were replaced with newer.
We will include the fixes as deb package or files to replace for next version. I'm not sure yet what we should add more for next version.
I will try to explore better Russian sfs-linux work to see if I can adapt something more than live-snapshot for DebianDog.

Toni

[mcewanw]

SFR has pointed out a bug that effects both xrecond and pavrecord. It's an old re-surfaced issue, first discussed on this forum in 2009, that seemed to depend on arecord version. I'll work on that today if I find time and post updated versions, so maybe best to hold back on next iso release till that fix posted.

I guess you mean next iso for future one, because yesterday both iso versions were replaced with newer.

Ah, okay, that's a pity. Pavrecord and also xrecord just needed a quick fix to one line of the script. It is a relatively important fix though, without which using provided arecord vu meter can cause later problems with some apps when running as user root. It's really a problem re-introduced with later arecord program vu display option. The method used in xrecord and pavrecord is commonly used according to google searches, and it used to be fine, but something has changed with arecord such that using that vu as root user will change /dev/null into a txt file - fixes itself on reboot, but clearly it needs addressed. I have a fix and another from forum member SFR (but that one didn't work for me yet and he hasn't yet responded to my PM, but as I say, the fix I have seems fine).

Cheers, William

[stemsee]

One way out of that is to use an established repository system and tools, such as dpkg, but I'm not myself against Puppy using its own repository and tools since they can be specially tailored for small size. I do note, however, that the largest push in Puppy developement isn't so far away from DebianDog in terms of its movement - albeit involving build system Woof. I imagine that some of the developments documented in this thread will be read and found useful in these Puppy developments - all distributions are ultimately collaborative, whether acknowledged or not.

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

full dpkg is active in 'woof-next', as well as hotplugging enabled by default, Indeed puppy-next-generation (ng) is adjusting puppy to fit the host rather than as previously squeezing the host into puppy. The initrd system with modules.sfs (zdrv) is able to boot DebianDog without issues, and should be added as the 5th boot method (Why? because of kernel-kit-ng=roll your own(easily)), at tow (time of writing) only the 01-filesystem.squashfs needs to be copied/renamed to puppy.sfs in the live folder, both systems residing in live without interference. In fact I see an opportunity in this. It should be possible to specify the name of the sfs/squashfs main-file to load as a kernel argument rather than only fom initrd/DISTRO_SPECS . I agree that multi-user should be default, though i have no use for it myself, unless I wanted to setup multi-seat as in C3Sl from Brazil = hassle as comparred to xinput pseudo multi-seat.

It is great for me and all users to have two related systems that fit on the same usb stick, each providing a somewhat different feel and experience. I am used to puppy and slowly finding my way around DebianDog, I still haven't memorized the three boot methods (or 4), puppy now has two initrds/boot methods and also three save methods; save to partition, save to file, save to folder.

So for the user it is great to simply enjoy both the chicken and the egg without stressing over which arrived first! As long as they coexist peacefully and to the benefit of the broader community.

[saintless]

Hi, Stemsee.

The initrd system with modules.sfs (zdrv) is able to boot DebianDog without issues, and should be added as the 5th boot method (Why? because of kernel-kit-ng=roll your own(easily)), at tow (time of writing) only the 01-filesystem.squashfs needs to be copied/renamed to puppy.sfs in the live folder, both systems residing in live without interference. In fact I see an opportunity in this.

Any other advantage you see in such configuration?
I see many disadvantages regarding some apt-get programs compatibility with non debian kernel and I'm sure many debian options and puppy options will be lost or broken.
For example I doubt you can still load 3,4,5,6,7,8 modules on boot as DebianDog does now.
I also doubt you can use all Puppy save options unless all needed scripts are included inside initrd.
But testing iso will show all advantages and disadvantages of such configuration. Perhaps you can upload working iso with Puppy initrd and kernel and DebianDog module? I have doubts it will boot on my old hardware but I'm sure Fred or William will test it. Then we can make separate kernel+initrd module for testing and improvements from anyone interested to work on this.

[saintless]

For next version - wget-progress written from Sfs (sfslinux) for PuppyRus:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Fredx181/ ... ogress.zip
Just extract in /opt/bin and type in terminal:

Code: Select all

wget-progress <download-file-location>

[saintless]

Hi, William.
Is there a way to change subtitle encoding from xhippo?
I can do it from gnome-mplayer but I see no such option in xhippo configuration file. Setting up subtitle encoding to CP1251 in gnome-mplayer before starting xhippo works only for gnome-mplayer.

Toni