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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 788
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jun 2014, 12:29    Post subject:  

Toni wrote:
#!/bin/bash
#set -x

[ "`whoami`" != "root" ] && exec gsu ${0}

export LC_ALL=C

And works for any drive without permissions problem. I will leave it this way.

Ok, I'll do the same.
Also for the video2audio-x script.

Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2487
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jun 2014, 13:52    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
I am almost ready for making new iso now so tell me when you are.

I'm ready with all the changes I plan to include for now, Fred, but I suggest to test one more day to see if we can find something for fixing.
If all is OK I will need few hours to build the iso after you post download link for OpenBox version.

Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2487
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 03:09    Post subject:  

Hi, Fred.
Uploaded sns deb package with added also gsu line. Use this one in /opt/apps:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Fredx181/sns_2.1.1-1.deb
And add the same line in the beginning in /opt/bin/change-frisbee2sns:
Code:
[ "`whoami`" != "root" ] && exec gsu ${0}


Toni
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2487
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 04:34    Post subject:  

Hi, William.

Reading again your post here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=778828#778828
I think the new iso will include all your points there. pet2sfs and pet2deb will give option for quick, easy and safe way to test and install pet packages (single pet or folder wit pet packages)

This one:
Quote:
3. Some mechanism/utility for taking a standard apt package and trimming the fat (as it is called in Puppy) for later addition to DebianDog using methods such as in 1. and 2. above. We already have Apt2sfs from Fred, but I don't think that trims out any of the bloat first.

Is available and apt2sfs, remasterdog and remastercow clean the deb packages better than puppy method.
Removing dependencies that are not needed for the basic program to work will be real solution. This can be automated by removing all dependencies from control file but the result will be non working deb package in most cases that needs manually installing some of the dependencies. I will think about this but for now I do not see 100% working method. It will be safe with sure but not working for all debian packages, but the point is to have all downloaded from debian repository working.

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 04:52    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
Hi, William.

Reading again your post here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=778828#778828
I think the new iso will include all your points there. pet2sfs and pet2deb will give option for quick, easy and safe way to test and install pet packages (single pet or folder wit pet packages)

This one:
Quote:
3. Some mechanism/utility for taking a standard apt package and trimming the fat (as it is called in Puppy) for later addition to DebianDog using methods such as in 1. and 2. above. We already have Apt2sfs from Fred, but I don't think that trims out any of the bloat first.

Is available and apt2sfs, remasterdog and remastercow clean the deb packages better than puppy method.

...

Toni


Yes, the more I use DebianDog, and bearing in mind your new pet2--- additions, the more I think it provides all these facilities now. Now I find DebianDog a really great environment for experimenting and producing home-grown apps and utilities, most of which can be readily ported back to Puppy itself and yet remain fully multi-user capable.

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 788
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 10:18    Post subject:  

Hi Toni,
Here's new openbox_xfce iso.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCDlZZ8K5RXhlUXhrMzFMSFk/edit?usp=sharing
Added your latest additions (SNS and others with gsu line)

The size is a bit smaller because of smaller firefox version 27 (and maybe because of smaller gnome-mplayer)
The firefox version 28 which was in previous release had terrible behaviour: upgrading without asking.

Can you give it a quick try on your monster Smile ?
Specially because I had some problems again loading the icons in system-tray so needed to add more sleep time in autostart script.

Live-snapshot I didn't include because I think it needs more testing and also I'm not sure if it is a useful addition, we have porteus-boot with save on exit supporting file deletion which live-snapshot doesn't AFAIK.

Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2487
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 11:10    Post subject:  

Hi, Fred.
I get wallpaper and icons for user and root without troubles two reboots. Video works for user and root. I will try to test it a bit more in the next hours.
Now compressing Jwm main module and will re-upload both versions tonight with message in the thread.

About live-snapshot it is up to you, Fred, but I think it is different save option from porteus save on exit and snap changes when you need only. Yes, it does not support deleted (wh) files that are in the main module (uninstalling programs for example). But it keeps all other changes, including changed files from the main module.
live-sn.cpio.gz is read-write compressed save file only few k in size and it changes its size depending of the changes you make. It is perfect for saving system settings on flash-drive for example. And you can keep many different name small files with different settings for different machines and load the one you need only. You can also use live-sn with live-rw save file or partition at the same time. You know I use mostly live-boot-2x and it is good option for my needs.

I will try to add the new utilities in the next days in the thread and I think we are close to Alpha version. At least I see nothing special at the moment to be added for next DebianDog.

Toni

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 788
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 12:30    Post subject:  

Toni wrote:
I get wallpaper and icons for user and root without troubles two reboots. Video works for user and root.

Alright!!

Quote:
About live-snapshot it is up to you, Fred, but I think it is different save option from porteus save on exit and snap changes when you need only. Yes, it does not support deleted (wh) files that are in the main module (uninstalling programs for example). But it keeps all other changes, including changed files from the main module.
live-sn.cpio.gz is read-write compressed save file only few k in size and it changes its size depending of the changes you make. It is perfect for saving system settings on flash-drive for example. And you can keep many different name small files with different settings for different machines and load the one you need only. You can also use live-sn with live-rw save file or partition at the same time. You know I use mostly live-boot-2x and it is good option for my needs.

Ok, thanks for the info, it's new for me.

Quote:
I think we are close to Alpha version

I think also, the changes we made now were mostly additions, very little real fixes.
A nice addition btw could be menu entry for flash-player-install.

Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2487
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 13:25    Post subject:  

Hi, Fred.
Both iso replaced and information about the changes posted in the thread.
fredx181 wrote:
A nice addition btw could be menu entry for flash-player-install.

Is it enough for example menu entry pointing to script with option and information similar to change-netmanager and running:
Code:
apt-get update
apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree


Toni
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stemsee


Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 403
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 15:49    Post subject:  

I converted my wine-1.7.19.pet to .deb using your pet2deb and installed it and installed xbmc.exe 13 on that. Two finger touch works on my sentelic fingerpad. Booted both on fatdog initrd and my 3.14.5 kernel and debian 3.14-pae-bpo. Played some Brahms and Bela Fleck and the Flektones 'greatest hits of the twentieth century' So far very good. Installed sns and some firmware. Impressive.

Edit: I had to run 'Diagnostics' on Frisbee before wlan would show any networks ... in case someone else has the same issue.
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 17:45    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:

Live-snapshot I didn't include because I think it needs more testing and also I'm not sure if it is a useful addition, we have porteus-boot with save on exit supporting file deletion which live-snapshot doesn't AFAIK.

Fred


I think it should be included, though I don't think it should have a menu item if the boot method is not the usual one for the particular debiandog (in this case openbox version). Afterall, the size is tiny, and there may well be some users who will prefer the alternative boot strategies, and these flexible alternative boot strategies are core concepts underlying all debiandog developments so far - it would be a pity to diverge from that since ultimately the strength of this project stems from its collaborative development effort.

Otherwise, you encourage forks and derivatives, which is fine but can be confusing and water down the development effort since it ends up being spread amongst the derivatives and individually tailored forks - becomes then difficult to keep track of any potential improvements/fixes that have been implemented in other derivatives.

There will always be forks and derivatives (even if just loose ones) because some will want to change some things and go it alone, but surest development, I feel, lies in collaborative core rather than individual choice. However, that is different from development decisions by committee or forum, which is too loose since casual users often haven't familiarised themselves with all the development issues.

Of course, DebianDog itself, to a large extent is 'just' a derivative of Debian live, but it is a particularly tailored one, taking as it does ideas from Puppy, Porteus and so on, to produce quite an individual flavour.

Personally, I'm happy xhippo, with its front and backend scripts, continues to be used in core because it provides a relatively tiny multimedia system (which could be adjusted to use, for example, mplayer or vlc underneath). Being tiny it doesn't really cost anything to include it, whether a user decides to install/use some other multimedia system altogether or not (and the sfs activation tools makes that even easier). If something smaller, but better or more flexible comes along, then of course that should be adopted - but it is good to have a stable and consistent core in all debiandog releases IMO.

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 18:12    Post subject:  

Puppy is a great system, but it has long been known that it has two particular weaknesses, which were both the result of early development decisions.

1. It was developed as root user only, which is a pity, because the extra effort involved in keeping any Linux system multiuser is worth investing in. Certainly, it made it easy to write simple apps and programs for Puppy since there were never issues concerning not having sufficient access rights or permissions to underlying system utilities or storage areas - no sudoers rights to be concerned with and so on. But that encouraged program creation which were not easily ported to other Linux systems and, as was later discovered at cost - some applications don't like to be run as root. Now that a new wave of Puppy is being developed, making it multiuser should be a priority with that hindsight.

2. The other well-known problem has been package management issues, particularly issues concerning poor ability to track and resolve dependencies. One way out of that is to use an established repository system and tools, such as dpkg, but I'm not myself against Puppy using its own repository and tools since they can be specially tailored for small size. I do note, however, that the largest push in Puppy developement isn't so far away from DebianDog in terms of its movement - albeit involving build system Woof. I imagine that some of the developments documented in this thread will be read and found useful in these Puppy developments - all distributions are ultimately collaborative, whether acknowledged or not.

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2014, 19:59    Post subject:  

SFR has pointed out a bug that effects both xrecond and pavrecord. It's an old re-surfaced issue, first discussed on this forum in 2009, that seemed to depend on arecord version. I'll work on that today if I find time and post updated versions, so maybe best to hold back on next iso release till that fix posted.

Cheers, William

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2487
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jun 2014, 01:28    Post subject:  

stemsee wrote:
I had to run 'Diagnostics' on Frisbee before wlan would show any networks ... in case someone else has the same issue.

Thank you, wireless test reports are something we do not get often.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2487
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jun 2014, 01:42    Post subject:  

Hi, William.
mcewanw wrote:
I think it should be included, though I don't think it should have a menu item if the boot method is not the usual one for the particular debiandog (in this case openbox version).

Menu entry is proper at least for Jwm version at the moment. Live-snapshot default setup makes snapshot from /live/cow (but it can be changed to $HOME/ or different directory). In Jwm version we have /live/cow by default for live-boot-2x and porteus-boot + cow-nosave, cow-savefile, cow-savepart scripts that will create /live/cow for live-boot-3x with single click (this will give option also to use RemasterCow with live-boot-3x and it was not possible with previous iso).
In general you can use Utility - Snapshot Make (or live-snapshot) to create snapshot with changes from all boot methods. But you can load this snapshot on boot only with live-boot-2x. The program has warning it should be used with live-boot-2x.

mcewanw wrote:
SFR has pointed out a bug that effects both xrecond and pavrecord. It's an old re-surfaced issue, first discussed on this forum in 2009, that seemed to depend on arecord version. I'll work on that today if I find time and post updated versions, so maybe best to hold back on next iso release till that fix posted.

I guess you mean next iso for future one, because yesterday both iso versions were replaced with newer.
We will include the fixes as deb package or files to replace for next version. I'm not sure yet what we should add more for next version.
I will try to explore better Russian sfs-linux work to see if I can adapt something more than live-snapshot for DebianDog.

Toni

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