Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

[mcewanw]

Hi Tony

Have you given up on developing the older squeeze version (for older machines)? The reason I ask is that I find that with Wheezy version on both my test machines mplayer consumes almost 50% of CPU (well, actually the older machine uses a bit less cpu!... 26%), which surprised me a bit (I've tried mplayer 1.1 too with same result). Puppy Guydog running its mplayer only consumes 6% CPU! Guydog is based on squeeze so I am wondering if that is related (different gtk2 version maybe or what?). I thought of mesa and radeon and intel video drivers (for the different machines) but apt-get tells me they are both installed.

William

Actually, I should try out light core squeeze old one to see if it is better with mplayer on my machine. I'll do that and report back later.

Hmmm... I just tried Light core squeeze and just the apt-get of mplayer on there and the result is the same - well on one of my machines cpu load is 26% when running mplayer, which is the same on DebianDog mplayer for this machine. So how on earth does Puppy GuyDog mplayer only use 6% CPU (yes, just six percent...). I've always wondered what it is about GuyDog, it uses far less CPU with adobe flash than any other Puppy I've tried also.

EDIT: I think it may be the different kernel, or something to do with xorg? Just tried Puppy Precise 5.6.1 and mplayer usin around 20% CPU (just a little bit less than DebianDog on same system). Precise uses kernel 3.2.44. GuyDog uses a 2.6.x something kernel I think. It is maybe something to do with Xorg_High integrated (whatever that is? Can DebianDog get it?) This is from the GuyDog page:

Here’s the full list of included software:
- Linux kernel 2.6.39.4, patched with the BFS scheduler
- X.Org server with Xorg_High integrated (so you get 3D acceleration out-of-the-box).
- A rock-solid Debian heart.
- SDL, for out-of-the-box support for games and multimedia applications.

[dancytron]

**lots of stuff deleted**

EDIT: I think it may be the different kernel, or something to do with xorg? Just tried Puppy Precise 5.6.1 and mplayer usin around 20% CPU (just a little bit less than DebianDog on same system). Precise uses kernel 3.2.44. GuyDog uses a 2.6.x something kernel I think. It is maybe something to do with Xorg_High integrated (whatever that is? Can DebianDog get it?) This is from the GuyDog page:

Here’s the full list of included software:
- Linux kernel 2.6.39.4, patched with the BFS scheduler
- X.Org server with Xorg_High integrated (so you get 3D acceleration out-of-the-box).
- A rock-solid Debian heart.
- SDL, for out-of-the-box support for games and multimedia applications.

Have you installed the mesa-dri driver yet. I have to install that on mine to get the acceleration to work. You can try installing mesa-utils and then run glxgears from the terminal and see what it says.

[saintless]

Hi, William.

Have you given up on developing the older squeeze version (for older machines)?

More or less - yes. I have squeeze version for myself but it has a lot of software installed that is only for personal needs and no user account.
I will update the squeeze iso no-pae version in time with some stuff from Wheezy but no active development will be there.

So how on earth does Puppy GuyDog mplayer only use 6% CPU (yes, just six percent...)

The main reason is the compression method.
GuyDog is default level gzip compressed.
DebianDog is maximum xz compressed.
Try this for DebianDog and use live-boot-v2 instead porteus-boot. Porteus-boot uses a little bit more ram and I guess a little bit more CPU.
Extract the main module:

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unsquashfs -d /live/image/01-new-sfs /live/image/live/01-filesystem.squashfs

Compress it again with default gzip compression:

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mksquashfs /live/image/01-new-sfs /live/image/live/01-filesystem-gzip.squashfs

The size will grow up from 88 to 121 Mb.
Check the CPU usage then.
Older kernel 2.6... also can have something to do but mostly the compression is the reason.
Squeeze version also uses maximum xz compression with newer backport kernel above version 3x.
For Squeeze you can try the same default gzip compression for testing Mplayer usage.
Also Squeeze repository has avifile-player if you like to test if this one uses less instead mplayer.

If you like to continue testing in this direction change the kernel for squeeze with 2.6 series. Also you can try to extract mplayer from GuyDog as portable app to check how it works for DebianDog. I usually do this by copy/paste executable file and start it in Terminal in DebianDog. Then one by one search and copy/paste the needed dependencies till it works.

Toni

[mcewanw]

The main reason is the compression method.

I tried what you suggested (gz compressed), but mplayer result the same. Also tried installing libgl1-mesa-dri, again, no difference on this old 2003 radeon graphics laptop. I did try guydog's mplayer in debiandog ages ago when we were lookinf for small mplayer, but doubt I checked cpu usage. I'll investigate further and let you know if I find anything.

Anyway, I can't help also wondering why GuyDog uses so little cpu compared to Puppy Precise 5.6.1 when using mplayer or flash (it was also significantly better than Slacko 533 in regards to flash cpu usage - I didn't test mplayer back then).

But how do I change debian wheezy kernel to 2.6.x one (or in light core squeeze if can't do that with wheezy)?

[saintless]

But how do I change debian wheezy kernel to 2.6.x one (or in light core squeeze if can't do that with wheezy)?

I'm not sure you can use 2.6 kernel with Wheezy safely. Better try with Squeeze since 2.6 is default kernel there.
Use this to find the exact kernel version:

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apt-cache search linux-image-2

And replace the version in this example:

...If you are not going to change the kernel with 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-rt-686-pae don't read this section.

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apt-cache search linux-image-3

Choose the kernel you prefer or this one:

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apt-get -t squeeze-backports install linux-image-3.2.0-0.bpo.4-rt-pae firmware-linux-free

I had a breaking here because of low ram issue while depmod. If it happen type:

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dpkg --configure -a

It will finish the process.

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cd /boot
ls

Now create initrd.img for the newer kernel:

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mkinitramfs -o initrd-3.2.0-0.bpo.4-rt-pae.img 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-rt-pae

Then copy the vmlinuz and initrd to live folder and rename them to initrd.img and vmlinuz after removing the old.
You might also have to create link from /boot/initrd.img to / if it is broken but it does not matter since we will remove /boot folder at the end.
If everything went well after reboot you will have new kernel. Type to confirm:

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uname -r

Then remove the older kernels with:

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apt-get purge linux-image-2.6.32-5-486
apt-get purge linux-image-2.6.32-5-686

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apt-get autoremove

--======================================

[mcewanw]

Hi Guys,

One annoyance I'm finding is that underscore characters are not appearing in xterm display when I list things or use commands like modinfo. Is it just me?

[mcewanw]

Sorry, double posted in error.

[mcewanw]

Have you installed the mesa-dri driver yet. I have to install that on mine to get the acceleration to work.

That didn't seem to work at first but on further testing I seem to have reasonable CPU mplayer load now after:

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apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-ati
apt-get install libgl1-mesa-dri
apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree

Actually, I think xserver-xorg-video-ati was already installed but I did need both libgl1-mesa-dri and firmware-linux-nonfree I think. I'll have to try all this again just to be sure. It still uses a bit more CPU than in Puppy GuyDog, but that's not surprising I suppose since this is Wheezy compared to GuyDog using squeeze packages. I am using the gz compressed sfs at the moment, as Toni suggested, but I don't think that has any effect. I'll put everything back to normal and double check tomorrow.

EDIT: Hardinfo report on DebianDog tells me mesa is working and I have direct rendering now:

-OpenGL-
Vendor : X.Org R300 Project
Renderer : Gallium 0.4 on ATI RV350
Version : 2.1 Mesa 8.0.5
Direct Rendering : Yes

So that is good... but... from hardinfo report on GuyDog, I don't have this! So it remains a mystery why mplayer is running so efficiently in GuyDog on my machine! (I wonder if I can even improve on that if mesa is not currently running in GuyDog...)

Current situation is therefore that mplayer is working reasonably efficiently now in my DebianDog install on this machine, but I'm still not satisfied I have really found the answer!!

EDIT2: Nope. Something not right. I've rebooted again and mesa is showing in hardinfo report and I have all the above bits and pieces installed but mplayer consuming twice as much cpu as it seemed to be. I don't know what is going on tonight! I'll have to look into this more tomorrow...

[saintless]

,One annoyance I'm finding is that underscore characters are not appearing in xterm display when I list things or use commands like modinfo. Is it just me?

Can you give an example output from such command, William? And the same command from puppy to search for the right settings in xterm. I see nothing wrong yet.
This also might be of help:
http://bsdpants.blogspot.com/2008/07/xt ... cters.html

It is strange gzip compression does not give you less CPU usage. It does that on my old hrdware and the system is really much faster.

Toni

[mcewanw]

,One annoyance I'm finding is that underscore characters are not appearing in xterm display when I list things or use commands like modinfo. Is it just me?

Can you give an example output from such command, William?

No actual command needed on my machine Toni. If I have an xterm open and type an underscore the character is simply invisible. It is being typed (I can cut and paste into editor and it is there ok) but just not showing ever in my xterms.

I was mainly looking at mplayer cpu load toni. I have a lot on the system just now so i'm not sure I can reliably see if the overall system cpu is much different. But I didn't get the impression there was much change overall. Perhaps my system, though old, is fast enough to mask the difference or do you note a major change on your faster machine? EDIT: Ah, sorry, I just realised I'm still using Porteus boot method, forgot to change the menu.lst to use a persistence file instead - but will that really make any difference?

[mcewanw]

One major difference I've noted comparing my DebianDog and GuyDog distributions is that GuyDog loads the module agpgart and DebianDog does not. GuyDog also loads modules intel_agp and intel_gpp (whatever they may be...?)

[saintless]

Hi, William.

Porteus-boot will not affect much your mplayer test.
If using gzip does does not make visual difference changing boot method will not do it with sure.
gzip compressed main module runs much faster on PIII-600Mhz and 128Mb RAM. It also uses 7Mb less RAM in Htop.

firmware-linux-nonfree package could also make difference for Squeeze at least. I have network card that works only after installing firmware-linux-nonfree.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Hi, William.

Porteus-boot will not affect much your mplayer test.
If using gzip does does not make visual difference changing boot method will not do it with sure.
gzip compressed main module runs much faster on PIII-600Mhz and 128Mb RAM. It also uses 7Mb less RAM in Htop.

firmware-linux-nonfree package could also make difference for Squeeze at least. I have network card that works only after installing firmware-linux-nonfree.

Toni

Yes, I thought it wouldn't make much difference in this machine, which is Pentium M 1.6GHz with 1 GB RAM. The only difference with the gz compression method that I notice is the size increase of the sfs file to over 120MB as you said.

As far as agpgart is concerned, I think that must be built into debian kernel since I see references to that in dmesg from boot up and it doesn't seem to be a module in the system. Yes, firmware-linux-nonfree might be what I'm needing in the debian core squeeze version for better performance.

[mcewanw]

I thought I'd try playing with xorg.conf, but when I drop out of X and enter:

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Xorg -configure

I'm getting error message:

(II) [KMS] No DRICreatePCIBusID symbol, no kernel modsetting.
Number of screens does not match the number of detected devices.
Configuration failed

It's just my Pentium M laptop and no extra monitor attached to it. I'm still trying to chase down my mplayer cpu load situation, which was why I was planning to experiment with xorg.conf

[Ether]

...
If I have an xterm open and type an underscore the character is simply invisible. It is being typed (I can cut and paste into editor and it is there ok)...

Not to interrupt the flow of this ongoing dialog, but could you please explain how to copy the text from an Xterm window? I've been trying everything I could think of and no joy. Thank you.

.

[saintless]

Hi, Ether.

Copy - paste: mark the text in Xterm and just press the scroll wheel mouse button to paste it where you need. And the opposite.
To select all or part of the content in Xterm mark small part and start scroll the mouse button. When you click right mouse button the text is selected to the point where the cursor is.
Press Ctrl and right mouse button and see what menu will appear.

Also you can install rxvt like in puppy or lxterminal.

Toni

[saintless]

I thought I'd try playing with xorg.conf, but when I drop out of X and enter:

Code: Select all

Xorg -configure

I'm getting error message:

(II) [KMS] No DRICreatePCIBusID symbol, no kernel modsetting.
Number of screens does not match the number of detected devices.
Configuration failed

It's just my Pentium M laptop and no extra monitor attached to it. I'm still trying to chase down my mplayer cpu load situation, which was why I was planning to experiment with xorg.conf

Hi, William.
It should be related with you graphic card model. Try to boot with nomodeset and see if this works.
Just few links from google with the same message:
http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=16403
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1613132
http://www.linuxine.com/story/debian-li ... o-settings

Till you find the problem use only live-boot-2 or live-boot-3
nomodeset maybe will not work with porteus boot.
Fred wrote nonetworking for example does not work with DebianDog porteus-boot but it works with debian boot:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 472#774472

Toni

[Ether]

Hi, Ether.

Copy - paste: mark the text in Xterm and just press the scroll wheel mouse button to paste it where you need. And the opposite.
To select all or part of the content in Xterm mark small part and start scroll the mouse button. When you click right mouse button the text is selected to the point where the cursor is.
Press Ctrl and right mouse button and see what menu will appear.

That worked, thank you.

Is there a FAQ or something where I could get this info for myself? I hate to take up bandwidth here asking such basic questions, but I don't know where else to get answers.

On a separate topic:

I'm trying to learn my way around Debian Dog. I have it frugal-installed in sda1 with GRUB4DOS on an old Dell Dimension E310 and it's working great so far.

I'm trying to config it so that I don't have to run apt-get update every time I power-up. Here's what I tried:

- boot v2 persistent
- apt-get update
- RemasterDog and save as 01-filesystem.squashfs in sda3 ext partition
- replace the existing 01-filesystem.squashfs in the /live folder with the new one
- re-boot

It didn't work (as evidenced by the fact that when I did apt-get update, it downloaded all the files again).

What am I doing wrong?

[saintless]

Hi, Ether.

Feel free to ask anything DebianDog related. The answers will be usefull for others reading this thread. Xterm howto:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xterm

- boot v2 persistent
- apt-get update
- RemasterDog and save as 01-filesystem.squashfs in sda3 ext partition
- replace the existing 01-filesystem.squashfs in the /live folder with the new one
- re-boot

It didn't work (as evidenced by the fact that when I did apt-get update, it downloaded all the files again).

What am I doing wrong?

Nothing wrong but if you try to save apt-get downloaded database and downloaded deb packages it will not happen this way.
Remasterdog (as also RemasterCow) make some extra cleaning in order to keep your system small as possible.
It will not save the files for apt-get update information in:
/var/cache/apt - 39Mb
/var/cache/apt/archives - all downloaded packages with apt-get (this folder easy can become 200-300 Mb and more. After installing the packages you do not need this deb packages anymore).
/var/lib/apt/lists - 48 mb.
All this files will be created again after running apt-get update.
If you like to keep them use live-rw save file. For example use this 1Gb for testing:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/1gb-example-save-file.zip
Extract it on top of any ext or vfat partition and use live-boot-2 persistent
The boot code should have persistent in kernel line and initrd line to use initrd1.img. Example for DebianDog frugal on sda1:

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title DebianDog (sda1) 
root=(hd0,0) 
kernel /live/vmlinuz1 boot=live config persistent swapon quickreboot noprompt autologin
initrd /live/initrd1.img

Now all your changes will be saved inside the extracted live-rw save file without any extra cleaning.
If you prefer to edit /opt/bin/remsterdog script not to do apt-get information extra cleaning comment lines 80, 82, 84. But you will include inside the main module the size of the files I pointed above.

Toni

[Ether]

Hi, Ether.

Feel free to ask anything DebianDog related. The answers will be usefull for others reading this thread.

I appreciate your patience and helpfulness.

Nothing wrong but if you try to save apt-get downloaded database and downloaded deb packages it will not happen this way.
Remasterdog (as also RemasterCow) make some extra cleaning in order to keep your system small as possible.
It will not save the files for apt-get update information in:
/var/cache/apt - 39Mb
/var/cache/apt/archives - all downloaded packages with apt-get (this folder easy can become 200-300 Mb and more. After installing the packages you do not need this deb packages anymore).
/var/lib/apt/lists - 48 mb.
All this files will be created again after running apt-get update.
If you like to keep them use live-rw save file. For example use this 1Gb for testing:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/1gb-example-save-file.zip
Extract it on top of any ext or vfat partition and use live-boot-2 persistent
The boot code should have persistent in kernel line and initrd line to use initrd1.img. Example for DebianDog frugal on sda1:

Code: Select all

title DebianDog (sda1) 
root=(hd0,0) 
kernel /live/vmlinuz1 boot=live config persistent swapon quickreboot noprompt autologin
initrd /live/initrd1.img

Now all your changes will be saved inside the extracted live-rw save file without any extra cleaning.
If you prefer to edit /opt/bin/remsterdog script not to do apt-get information extra cleaning comment lines 80, 82, 84. But you will include inside the main module the size of the files I pointed above.

I am going to study the above very carefully and do some experimenting. I think part of the challenge facing me is that I don't yet have a framework of understanding about what the squashfs files do and how they are used. I'm just making guesses at this point based on hunches. Is there a beginner-level FAQ that you might recommend to get me started down the right path toward understanding? I have a feeling that once I get a foundation to build on the learning will happen a lot faster. I'll bet this is a hurdle that many new users stumble on and give up. I'm determined not to give up... I think the rewards will be worth the effort.

EDIT1: re-reading your post, I just realized something: "apt-get update" does not actually update the installed OS with patches and updates, right? It just downloads an updated copy of the repo database?


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