Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

[saintless]

Hi, William.

I like to play fair according DFSG:
http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html

the license allows modification and distribution, but the copyright holder said they interpreted this as allowing modification, and allowing distribution of unmodified copies, but as not allowing distribution of modified copies. We respected their wishes, considered the software non-free, and removed it from Debian.

I like to prevent further troubles for Smokey and this forum in general.
I prefer to make instruction how to easy compile what is needed for DebianDog from the user.

Toni

[mcewanw]

I prefer to make instruction how to easy compile what is needed for DebianDog from the user.

I think many potential users won't want to compile. However, I think ffmpeg is the main problem case. I don't think we would have any issue if Fred wouldn't mind recompiling his version without enabling non-free (meaning we can't use libfaac, but that's okay) but include ffplay and also libvo-aacenc since that encoder is under GPL. We would then be in a position to create a special Puppylookalike sfs addon that included ffmpeg and many of the currently not provided small Puppy utilities and gtkdialog frontends.

[saintless]

Hi, William.

I don't know what Fred thinks and feels about compiling new version, but something is unclear for me:

Isn't it possible full functional ffmpeg to be installed via apt-get or Synaptic from the user without any compiling involved for the price of larger size?
I would be very surprised if Debian user has to compile ffmpeg instead simple apt-get install procedure.

Maybe I miss something about ffmpeg install procedure but from what I can tell installing avidemux for example will auto-install all needed software to convert audio/video formats.

If the user wants smaller version of ffmpeg with the same functionality then the user will have to learn to compile since some dependencies are non-free.
I don't feel right to violate some software license just because the user doesn't want to learn to compile but finds the size of apt-get downloaded version too big.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Hi, William.

I don't know what Fred thinks and feels about compiling new version, but something is unclear for me:

Isn't it possible full functional ffmpeg to be installed via apt-get or Synaptic from the user without any compiling involved for the price of larger size?...

If the user wants smaller version of ffmpeg with the same functionality then the user will have to learn to compile since some dependencies are non-free.
I don't feel right to violate some software license just because the user doesn't want to learn to compile but finds the size of apt-get downloaded version too big.

:-) Of course they can enable the non-free repositories (as is the case in DebianDog release anyway) and download avidemux (and/or also full ffmpeg). I guess only the user is then potentially violating any software licence :-) The default active deb-multimedia repo provides all that as you know:

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deb ftp://ftp.deb-multimedia.org wheezy main non-free

My only reasons for thinking about a much smaller ffmpeg is that I had it in mind that some users (not myself) might like to keep DebianDog Puppylike in terms of size, and ffmpeg from Debian repositories (free or non-free) kind of goes against that philosophy. I also thought it would be nice to put together an sfs that included small ffmpeg along with various Puppy utilities, several of which need ffmpeg, such as ffconvert and Pavrecord. Avidemux, which I've never used, apparently employs inbuilt versions of ffmpeg codecs, free and non-free depending on how it is compiled and it is not in debian standard repos because of the non-free components I presume.

Anyway, you make a fair point that most anything can be added using apt-get or Synaptics by the user, which avoids us worrying about licencing issues, and larger apt packages can be converted into sfs files for use as and when desired. I'll make a small ffmpeg for my own use probably but I'll keep it secret from the world if I'm violating any licencing conditions in the version I'm using at home! ;-)

[saintless]

Thanks, William.
For good or bad I like to follow official debian policy for DebianDog. Even if this means the user is not happy about that.

Of course they can enable the non-free repositories (as is the case in DebianDog release anyway) and download avidemux (and/or also full ffmpeg). I guess only the user is then potentially violating any software licence

The user is not violating non-free license by installing software for personal use from non-free repository or distributing the downloaded separate deb files. Official distribution of modified non-free software or software containing non-free packages does that from what I read.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Yes, you're right Toni. I also read the problem as being in the distribution of packages containing non-free components. Moreover, the small DebianDog iso is the important piece when it comes to a very convenient download. Considering the low cost of multi-GB usb flash devices nowadays, size of installed apps thereafter isn't really all that important anyway.

[stemsee]

I just built debian wheezy using woof ce, self compiled kernel 3.13.9-emsee-pae, It's rather nice.

I also built precise 5.7.1 yesterday with the same kernel and ubuntu precise updates. both shared from my google drive.

wheezy
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4GhZV ... sp=sharing

precise
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4GhZV ... sp=sharing


Let me know how you like them.

stemsee

[mcewanw]

That's great stemsee and perhaps from experience of your wheezy-based puppy you'll be able to make useful contributions to DebianDog development. Bear in mind however, that DebianDog is a Debian-live based system given the size, and some of the look and feel of a Puppy distribution. It is not however a Puppy per se. DebianDog doesn't use woof and uses Debian's dpkg with apt-get and/or Synaptics for package management. In that light, you probably should start a new thread for discussions of your Puppy-wheezy creation since this thread concentrates purely on DebianDog developments really.

[saintless]

Hi, William.
Can you help me with this, please:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 753#773220
I need proper instruction for xhippo and xrecord + if you have some better screenshot for xhippo and xrecord in action. I can make more but you know those apps much better than me.
Thanks in advance.

Stemsee, thank you, but I can't promise I will have time to test them in the next few days. I will do it when I get a chance. If you open separate thread post a link here, please.

Toni

[saintless]

Hi, William.

Just for information, I don't know if this result is a good one but I just tested:

Code: Select all

apt-get install ffmpeg

It was around 44 Mb uncompressed.
Then using RemasterCow and after quick manually cleaning I have 8,1 Mb sfs file.
This is the output from this separate ffmpeg module:

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root@debian:~# ffmpeg
ffmpeg version 1.0.8 Copyright (c) 2000-2013 the FFmpeg developers
  built on Sep 12 2013 11:54:40 with gcc 4.7 (Debian 4.7.2-5)
  configuration: --prefix=/usr --extra-cflags='-g -O2 -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -Wformat -Werror=format-security ' --extra-ldflags='-Wl,-z,relro' --cc='ccache cc' --enable-shared --enable-libmp3lame --enable-gpl --enable-nonfree --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-libfaac --enable-libxvid --enable-postproc --enable-x11grab --enable-libgsm --enable-libtheora --enable-libopencore-amrnb --enable-libopencore-amrwb --enable-libx264 --enable-libspeex --enable-nonfree --disable-stripping --enable-libvpx --enable-libschroedinger --disable-encoder=libschroedinger --enable-version3 --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-librtmp --enable-avfilter --enable-libfreetype --enable-libvo-aacenc --disable-decoder=amrnb --enable-libvo-amrwbenc --enable-libaacplus --libdir=/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu --disable-vda --enable-libbluray --enable-libcdio --enable-gnutls --enable-frei0r --enable-openssl --enable-libass --enable-libopus --enable-fontconfig --enable-libfdk-aac --enable-libdc1394 --disable-altivec --disab  libavutil      51. 73.101 / 51. 73.101
  libavcodec     54. 59.100 / 54. 59.100
  libavformat    54. 29.104 / 54. 29.104
  libavdevice    54.  2.101 / 54.  2.101
  libavfilter     3. 17.100 /  3. 17.100
  libswscale      2.  1.101 /  2.  1.101
  libswresample   0. 15.100 /  0. 15.100
  libpostproc    52.  0.100 / 52.  0.100
Hyper fast Audio and Video encoder
usage: ffmpeg [options] [[infile options] -i infile]... {[outfile options] outfile}...

Use -h to get full help or, even better, run 'man ffmpeg'
root@debian:~# 

I think 8 Mb is not too much since every user can do it easy.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Yes, 8 MB sfs is not bad at all and has all needed from a glance

[fredx181]

if Fred wouldn't mind recompiling his version without enabling non-free

If you guys are still interested, I did a recompile without non-free.
Also tried to compile ffplay with it but it seems not to go together -static and ffplay- , so the ffplay included is not static, well, almost, it needs some small dependencies.
Check it with:

Code: Select all

ldd /path/to/ffplay

ffmpeg-0.9.tar.gz
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCD ... sp=sharing

Fred

[mcewanw]

Thanks Fred. I'll give that a spin later.

[mcewanw]

Hi, William.
Can you help me with this, please:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 753#773220
I need proper instruction for xhippo and xrecord + if you have some better screenshot for xhippo and xrecord in action. I can make more but you know those apps much better than me.

Hi Toni, I'm out most of this weekend but will come back to you with some stuff for that soon afterwards.

Cheers, William

[saintless]

If you guys are still interested, I did a recompile without non-free.

Thank you, Fred!

I will make separate sfs for upload on the site.
ffplay and ffprobe
Is there deb package that can fix this dependencies?
I will search for it to add it so the sfs is ready for use.

William, thanks. Take your time with xhippo ad xrecord stuff. I have much more to add in the thread anyway.

Toni

[fredx181]

I will make separate sfs for upload on the site.
ffplay and ffprobe
Is there deb package that can fix this dependencies?
I will search for it to add it so the sfs is ready for use.

Hi Toni,
Only ffplay is not static, it needs libdirectfb-1.2-9 package installed.
Btw, I first thought William's initial intention was to include a small ffmpeg in the next version and adopt some puppy programs that need it.

Just a thought:
If you create a sfs from all 3 binaries (+ dependency for ffplay) it will be even bigger (I think) than the official Debian (from stable, without non-free, is 41MB uncompressed)
And the Debian one has much more functionalty of course.

Fred

[mcewanw]

Btw, I first thought William's initial intention was to include a small ffmpeg in the next version and adopt some puppy programs that need it.

Just a thought:
If you create a sfs from all 3 binaries (+ dependency for ffplay) it will be even bigger (I think) than the official Debian (from stable, without non-free, is 41MB uncompressed)

No, I was thinking of an sfs Fred and then adopting some puppy programs for that. Definitely not thinking any version should be in the iso itself - I like the iso slim as much as is reasonable!

Yes, I looked at your one and also noted that with ffplay it would be bigger than Debian stable version. I think Debian stable is best (or maybe made into an sfs and slimmed down as Toni talked about. But I don't think it should be in core iso (just an optional addon at best, or simply let users fetch stable one or the deb-multimedia one for more functionality; with apt-get...)

[saintless]

Hi, Fred, William.

I need your help for a small experiment which will work I hope. If I'm right we will have easy way to provide some special small versions of non-free applications to the user without breaking any license.

Please, test this with fresh save file or without save file if you have 512Mb ram and more.
Download the attached archive and extract apt2sfs.Replace /opt/apps/apt2sfs/apt2sfs with this one and run apt2sfs.

This is a mixed version of apt2sfs and remasterdog which will create straight forward ffmpeg.sfs static with size 8,1Mb and no dpkg database information at all. Basicly it should work on any linux. Just start apt2sfs and click OK button. ffmpeg is already typed in the white field.
Please, when you have time test if this ffmpeg is working as expected. I'm not sure I can do proper test myself but I'm not sure if my cleaning was not too much.

apt2sfs messages and text are still the same. This is only testing script for now. If it works i will change the text.
We can provide similar scripts for self-made sfs from applications containing non-free software to the user.

Toni

[fredx181]

Hi Toni,

Hi, Fred, William.

I need your help for a small experiment which will work I hope. If I'm right we will have easy way to provide some special small versions of non-free applications to the user without breaking any license.

Just tried and works very well.
I see in the script, you made it remove libraries and after that create symlinks.
Is that because otherwise it won't work?
I ask because I have more and more doubts about apt2sfs (I experienced some not working packages).

As a coincident I was just thinking of something else in the direction of remastercow before I read your post.
I think you made the DEVX sfs like that (with remastercow and remove the dpkg registration).
That would be better I think because every pre/postinstall script from every package will then be executed.
Then you wouldn't have to make separate script for every program, like in this case ffmpeg.

Fred

[saintless]

Thank you, Fred!

I hoped it will work. I will wait for William's word and if it is OK for him I think we have ffmpeg sfs problem solved. It will not be available for download but downloading the script will create non-free ffmpeg module in a few minutes for every user. We can combine this script in a module with separate applications that need ffmpeg.

I see in the script, you made it remove libraries and after that create symlinks.
Is that because otherwise it won't work?

The two libs are created two times. I have no idea why but they have the same names and the same size. This why I removed both creating symlinks instead.

Fred, if you need any help about your idea just write what you need.
Devx has apt-get information but it is renamed in case I decide to make update dpkg script later. If I remember right.

Toni