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Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2580
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 02:19    Post_subject:  

Hi, William.

I like to play fair according DFSG:
http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html

Quote:
the license allows modification and distribution, but the copyright holder said they interpreted this as allowing modification, and allowing distribution of unmodified copies, but as not allowing distribution of modified copies. We respected their wishes, considered the software non-free, and removed it from Debian.


I like to prevent further troubles for Smokey and this forum in general.
I prefer to make instruction how to easy compile what is needed for DebianDog from the user.

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 03:12    Post_subject: Puppylookalike sfs addon  

saintless wrote:

I prefer to make instruction how to easy compile what is needed for DebianDog from the user.


I think many potential users won't want to compile. However, I think ffmpeg is the main problem case. I don't think we would have any issue if Fred wouldn't mind recompiling his version without enabling non-free (meaning we can't use libfaac, but that's okay) but include ffplay and also libvo-aacenc since that encoder is under GPL. We would then be in a position to create a special Puppylookalike sfs addon that included ffmpeg and many of the currently not provided small Puppy utilities and gtkdialog frontends.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2580
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 04:57    Post_subject:  

Hi, William.

I don't know what Fred thinks and feels about compiling new version, but something is unclear for me:

Isn't it possible full functional ffmpeg to be installed via apt-get or Synaptic from the user without any compiling involved for the price of larger size?
I would be very surprised if Debian user has to compile ffmpeg instead simple apt-get install procedure.

Maybe I miss something about ffmpeg install procedure but from what I can tell installing avidemux for example will auto-install all needed software to convert audio/video formats.

If the user wants smaller version of ffmpeg with the same functionality then the user will have to learn to compile since some dependencies are non-free.
I don't feel right to violate some software license just because the user doesn't want to learn to compile but finds the size of apt-get downloaded version too big.

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 05:53    Post_subject:  

saintless wrote:
Hi, William.

I don't know what Fred thinks and feels about compiling new version, but something is unclear for me:

Isn't it possible full functional ffmpeg to be installed via apt-get or Synaptic from the user without any compiling involved for the price of larger size?...

If the user wants smaller version of ffmpeg with the same functionality then the user will have to learn to compile since some dependencies are non-free.
I don't feel right to violate some software license just because the user doesn't want to learn to compile but finds the size of apt-get downloaded version too big.


:-) Of course they can enable the non-free repositories (as is the case in DebianDog release anyway) and download avidemux (and/or also full ffmpeg). I guess only the user is then potentially violating any software licence :-) The default active deb-multimedia repo provides all that as you know:

Code:
deb ftp://ftp.deb-multimedia.org wheezy main non-free


My only reasons for thinking about a much smaller ffmpeg is that I had it in mind that some users (not myself) might like to keep DebianDog Puppylike in terms of size, and ffmpeg from Debian repositories (free or non-free) kind of goes against that philosophy. I also thought it would be nice to put together an sfs that included small ffmpeg along with various Puppy utilities, several of which need ffmpeg, such as ffconvert and Pavrecord. Avidemux, which I've never used, apparently employs inbuilt versions of ffmpeg codecs, free and non-free depending on how it is compiled and it is not in debian standard repos because of the non-free components I presume.

Anyway, you make a fair point that most anything can be added using apt-get or Synaptics by the user, which avoids us worrying about licencing issues, and larger apt packages can be converted into sfs files for use as and when desired. I'll make a small ffmpeg for my own use probably but I'll keep it secret from the world if I'm violating any licencing conditions in the version I'm using at home! ;-)

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2580
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 08:19    Post_subject:  

Thanks, William.
For good or bad I like to follow official debian policy for DebianDog. Even if this means the user is not happy about that.
mcewanw wrote:
Smile Of course they can enable the non-free repositories (as is the case in DebianDog release anyway) and download avidemux (and/or also full ffmpeg). I guess only the user is then potentially violating any software licence Smile

The user is not violating non-free license by installing software for personal use from non-free repository or distributing the downloaded separate deb files. Official distribution of modified non-free software or software containing non-free packages does that from what I read.

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:07    Post_subject:  

Yes, you're right Toni. I also read the problem as being in the distribution of packages containing non-free components. Moreover, the small DebianDog iso is the important piece when it comes to a very convenient download. Considering the low cost of multi-GB usb flash devices nowadays, size of installed apps thereafter isn't really all that important anyway.
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stemsee


Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 442
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:08    Post_subject: debian wheezy 3.5.2.9 woof ce
Sub_title: with kernel 3.13.9-pae
 

I just built debian wheezy using woof ce, self compiled kernel 3.13.9-emsee-pae, It's rather nice.

I also built precise 5.7.1 yesterday with the same kernel and ubuntu precise updates. both shared from my google drive.

wheezy
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4GhZVmB2RkwTmlQb3JpV24xSU0/edit?usp=sharing

precise
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4GhZVmB2RkwX3VDZ1JzRE5TMm8/edit?usp=sharing


Let me know how you like them.

stemsee
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:15    Post_subject:  

That's great stemsee and perhaps from experience of your wheezy-based puppy you'll be able to make useful contributions to DebianDog development. Bear in mind however, that DebianDog is a Debian-live based system given the size, and some of the look and feel of a Puppy distribution. It is not however a Puppy per se. DebianDog doesn't use woof and uses Debian's dpkg with apt-get and/or Synaptics for package management. In that light, you probably should start a new thread for discussions of your Puppy-wheezy creation since this thread concentrates purely on DebianDog developments really.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2580
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:51    Post_subject:  

Hi, William.
Can you help me with this, please:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=773220&sid=e680ecb230bc3c28f0959769e8997753#773220
I need proper instruction for xhippo and xrecord + if you have some better screenshot for xhippo and xrecord in action. I can make more but you know those apps much better than me.
Thanks in advance.

Stemsee, thank you, but I can't promise I will have time to test them in the next few days. I will do it when I get a chance. If you open separate thread post a link here, please.

Toni
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2580
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 13:56    Post_subject:  

Hi, William.

Just for information, I don't know if this result is a good one but I just tested:
Code:
apt-get install ffmpeg

It was around 44 Mb uncompressed.
Then using RemasterCow and after quick manually cleaning I have 8,1 Mb sfs file.
This is the output from this separate ffmpeg module:
Code:
root@debian:~# ffmpeg
ffmpeg version 1.0.8 Copyright (c) 2000-2013 the FFmpeg developers
  built on Sep 12 2013 11:54:40 with gcc 4.7 (Debian 4.7.2-5)
  configuration: --prefix=/usr --extra-cflags='-g -O2 -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -Wformat -Werror=format-security ' --extra-ldflags='-Wl,-z,relro' --cc='ccache cc' --enable-shared --enable-libmp3lame --enable-gpl --enable-nonfree --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-libfaac --enable-libxvid --enable-postproc --enable-x11grab --enable-libgsm --enable-libtheora --enable-libopencore-amrnb --enable-libopencore-amrwb --enable-libx264 --enable-libspeex --enable-nonfree --disable-stripping --enable-libvpx --enable-libschroedinger --disable-encoder=libschroedinger --enable-version3 --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-librtmp --enable-avfilter --enable-libfreetype --enable-libvo-aacenc --disable-decoder=amrnb --enable-libvo-amrwbenc --enable-libaacplus --libdir=/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu --disable-vda --enable-libbluray --enable-libcdio --enable-gnutls --enable-frei0r --enable-openssl --enable-libass --enable-libopus --enable-fontconfig --enable-libfdk-aac --enable-libdc1394 --disable-altivec --disab  libavutil      51. 73.101 / 51. 73.101
  libavcodec     54. 59.100 / 54. 59.100
  libavformat    54. 29.104 / 54. 29.104
  libavdevice    54.  2.101 / 54.  2.101
  libavfilter     3. 17.100 /  3. 17.100
  libswscale      2.  1.101 /  2.  1.101
  libswresample   0. 15.100 /  0. 15.100
  libpostproc    52.  0.100 / 52.  0.100
Hyper fast Audio and Video encoder
usage: ffmpeg [options] [[infile options] -i infile]... {[outfile options] outfile}...

Use -h to get full help or, even better, run 'man ffmpeg'
root@debian:~#


I think 8 Mb is not too much since every user can do it easy.

Toni
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 16:57    Post_subject:  

Yes, 8 MB sfs is not bad at all and has all needed from a glance
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 851
Location: holland

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 17:55    Post_subject:  

Quote:
if Fred wouldn't mind recompiling his version without enabling non-free


If you guys are still interested, I did a recompile without non-free.
Also tried to compile ffplay with it but it seems not to go together -static and ffplay- , so the ffplay included is not static, well, almost, it needs some small dependencies.
Check it with:
Code:
ldd /path/to/ffplay


ffmpeg-0.9.tar.gz
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCDlZZ8K5RDZYdXVqSjdMYTA/edit?usp=sharing

Fred
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 19:42    Post_subject:  

Thanks Fred. I'll give that a spin later.
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 19:56    Post_subject:  

saintless wrote:
Hi, William.
Can you help me with this, please:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=773220&sid=e680ecb230bc3c28f0959769e8997753#773220
I need proper instruction for xhippo and xrecord + if you have some better screenshot for xhippo and xrecord in action. I can make more but you know those apps much better than me.


Hi Toni, I'm out most of this weekend but will come back to you with some stuff for that soon afterwards.

Cheers, William

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2580
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 26 Apr 2014, 00:39    Post_subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
If you guys are still interested, I did a recompile without non-free.

Thank you, Fred!

I will make separate sfs for upload on the site.
ffplay and ffprobe
Is there deb package that can fix this dependencies?
I will search for it to add it so the sfs is ready for use.

William, thanks. Take your time with xhippo ad xrecord stuff. I have much more to add in the thread anyway.

Toni
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