Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

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anikin · #2191 Post by **anikin** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 09:15

Hi everyone,
A quick question.
Is there a reason why Debian Dog installer is not using extlinux?

fredx181 · #2192 Post by **fredx181** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 09:34

Hi Toni, William
Thanks for testing installer.
I'll write back tonight.

Fred

mcewanw · #2193 Post by **mcewanw** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 11:24

anikin wrote:Hi everyone,
A quick question.
Is there a reason why Debian Dog installer is not using extlinux?

extlinux is certainly an alternative, though I think that only works on certain filesystem types (extlinux on some linux fs, isolinux on fat? EDIT: meant syslinux) and grub4dos is very flexible if we can get it all working well. Also grub4dos may be used on hard drive frugal installs so it is convenient to use same mechanism on other media since easy to modify menu.lst between both for booting multiple os. But extlinux certainly works well enough; I've used it quite often too.

mcewanw · #2194 Post by **mcewanw** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 13:48

Another thing strikes me about the possibility that could be offered by DebianDog installer:

If you think about the situation of a user interested in trying DebianDog. Many may well be using some variety of Linux already (e.g. Puppy Linux). In such a situation, a very common scenario is that the Linux user will download the DebianDog iso. But the issue is, what do they have to do next? Generally, they only have two options:

1. They burn the iso to a CD and boot from that, which would then allow them to run DebianDog installer

2. They use a utility to open the isofile and extract the main contents required for a frugal install and adjust their bootup procedure (e.g. menu.lst) accordingly. Once again, on booting, the user could then run DebianDog installer, in this case for creating say a bootable usb stick.

However, option 1 suffers the disadvantage that a CD or DVD drive is required and a disc has to be burned. Option 2 suffers the disadvantage that the user needs a fair amount of experience at manually creating frugal installs (such a user would not even really need DebianDog installer other than as a convenience).

I envisage a third option, where the user can not only download the iso, but also download a portable version of the program DebianDog installer which would run on their current Linux system. Most Linux installations include the underlying programs required such as Gparted, so that portable DebianDog installer would require only the inclusion of the custom scripts it also calls up, such as disc-info. (In theory at least, it should even be possible to create an MSwinblows DebianDog installer via the inclusion of minimum cygwin components, perhaps even cygwin-lite and commandline partitioning tools only, though I'm not suggesting creating that at present when the main priority is getting the beta release out of the door).

Note that Puppy Linux will open an isofile just be clicking on it in Rox filemanager. That didn't seem to work in DebianDog itself (though DebianDog does allow opening up a squashfs in that manner). It would be good if it did, or have I simply missed how to do that in DebianDog (other than at the commandline)?

saintless · #2195 Post by **saintless** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 14:40

mcewanw wrote:Note that Puppy Linux will open an isofile just be clicking on it in Rox filemanager. That didn't seem to work in DebianDog itself (though DebianDog does allow opening up a squashfs in that manner). It would be good if it did, or have I simply missed how to do that in DebianDog (other than at the commandline)?

DebianDog also opens iso with single click, William. it is done by /opt/bin/mnt-img script. I don't know why Terry made it not to open new Rox window after click on iso as sfs and squashfs but you will find the iso mounted in /media Maybe something in the script does not work for new window opens for iso? Terry can tell us better.
I was quite happy with my first rough edited variant of this script which was opening new module or iso in new xfe window and after closing the window the module was unmounted. It is still included in Light-Squeeze.
Since Terry decided to make separate version for DebianDog it is his call how to handle the drives mounting. It is fine for me the way it is now.

We have one more option to make DebianDog easier to be tested. We can make iso and img version. The img version can be installed on usb from linux with dd command. I'm sure Windows also has a tool for similar procedure.

Toni

mcewanw · #2196 Post by **mcewanw** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 15:02

saintless wrote: We have one more option to make DebianDog easier to be tested. We can make iso and img version. The img version can be installed on usb from linux with dd command. I'm sure Windows also has a tool for similar procedure.

Toni

yes, that would be a good installer for Winblows users. Cygwin is probably not the way to go (and cygwin-lite doesn't have the functionality required I think). There is a dd for windows that apparently can write to usb flash available here:

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

and a write-up on using that to write an image to an SD card here (Raspberry Pi image in the example case):

http://www.myraspberrypiexperience.com/ ... r-windows/

Aside from that Windows possibility, I still think a standalone DebianDog installer for running from other Linux distributions would be handy and relatively easy to create from current DebianDog installer code, since that would allow more complex partitioning than the dd image type method.

EDIT: Just came across this page, which discusses USB flash installation of Arch Linux:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/US ... tion_Media

saintless · #2197 Post by **saintless** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 15:03

Terry,
please read the following:

saintless wrote:
mcewanw wrote:Note that Puppy Linux will open an isofile just be clicking on it in Rox filemanager. That didn't seem to work in DebianDog itself (though DebianDog does allow opening up a squashfs in that manner). It would be good if it did, or have I simply missed how to do that in DebianDog (other than at the commandline)?
DebianDog also opens iso with single click, William. it is done by /opt/bin/mnt-img script. I don't know why Terry made it not to open new Rox window after click on iso as sfs and squashfs but you will find the iso mounted in /media Maybe something in the script does not work for new window opens for iso? Terry can tell us better.
I was quite happy with my first rough edited variant of this script which was opening new module or iso in new xfe window and after closing the window the module was unmounted. It is still included in Light-Squeeze.
Since Terry decided to make separate version for DebianDog it is his call how to handle the drives mounting. It is fine for me the way it is now.

Checking now /opt/bin/mnt-img I see something that should not be there in my opinion:

Code: Select all

EXT=${L##*.}
/mnt/sda3/apps/sbin/stdDlgs -mi Ok -s 300x200 $0
/mnt/sda3/apps/sbin/stdDlgs -mi Ok -s 300x200 $L
/mnt/sda3/apps/sbin/stdDlgs -mi Ok -s 300x200 $EXT

Code: Select all

exit
        if [ "$EXT" = 'rox' ];then exec rox $MNT
        elif [ "$EXT" = 'rox' ];then exec xfe $MNT
        fi

stdDlgs is in /opt/bin and I guess this has to be elif [ "$EXT" = 'xfe' ];then exec xfe $MNT
Can you, please, check mnt-img in the last iso if all looks OK and is there a way to easy make it open new window for iso also?

Toni

mcewanw · #2198 Post by **mcewanw** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 15:23

saintless wrote: We have one more option to make DebianDog easier to be tested. We can make iso and img version. The img version can be installed on usb from linux with dd command. I'm sure Windows also has a tool for similar procedure.

Toni

Instead of separate iso and img versions, that presumably could be an iso hybrid as discussed in that Arch Linux thread link I gave above:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/US ... _USB_drive

EDIT: Another disk imager for windows is:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/

saintless · #2199 Post by **saintless** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 15:57

mcewanw wrote:Instead of separate iso and img versions, that presumably could be an iso hybrid as discussed in that Arch Linux thread link I gave above:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/US ... _USB_drive

I'm not sure what hybrid iso means, William, and I see nothing that explains how to make hybrid iso in the link, but I found how hybrid iso does the copy on usb and DebianDog does it the same. Maybe it is already hybrid?

Code: Select all

cp /path-to/DebianDog-PorteusDog-test2.iso /dev/sdb1
sync

And we have all files from the iso written on the flashdrive as debdog-installer does it. All we need is to make it bootable with weeinst and to add menu.lst and grldr.
I see as a priority to continue testing the system and any problems we can find at the moment.

Toni

mcewanw · #2200 Post by **mcewanw** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 16:07

saintless wrote: I'm not sure what hybrid iso means, William, and I see nothing that explains how to make hybrid iso in the link, but I found how hybrid iso does the copy on usb and DebianDog does it the same. Maybe it is already hybrid?
...
I see as a priority to continue testing the system and any problems we can find at the moment.

Toni

I'm not sure what hybrid iso meant either Toni :-) But I think you are right that what we are creating just now is probably a kind of hybrid iso since it deals with MBR and so on.

http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i ... 03.html.en

On further googling, isohybrid as a name seems to be something to do with syslinux.

http://joeyh.name/blog/entry/Debian_USB ... ybrid_iso/

EDIT: Ah, the difference between what we do and hybrid iso, is that the cp stage is all you need with hybrid iso since it includes the MBR/grub4dos stuff already setup whereas we do an extra weeinstall/grub4dos install step (but that is fine anyway...). I 'think' (??) if you made a working bootable usb and then made an img file out of that whole thing, the result would be an iso hybrid (but that would be a pretty big image I think unless compressed somehow?)

As for priority, yes, testing the system to get a beta out the door is the main thing to do - everything else are just extras.

sunburnt · #2201 Post by **sunburnt** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 18:22

Hybrid iso means multi. file systems, different O.S.s and also media types ( data + audio ).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_CD

The code posted for mnt.img is after a "exit" so it`s not run anyway.
Looking at mnt-img I see that blkid does not seem to id Squash files.
# I`ll fix it and post it.

# Toni; Some of the file types are not added to Rox.? Test tar.gz-bz2-xz, iso, etc.

# William brings up all the important points, very good.
For both ext3 and ext4 the journal is a problem for flash devices of all types.
ext2 can simply be used in place of ext3 and that fixes that problem.

gParted and Parted have no ability to custom format a partition.
It assumes if you`re using ext3 and ext4, then you must want them for the journal.

The main speed-up item as I see it is the partition alignment starting at 8MB.
Having a properly formatted ext4 partition is a further improvement.
But even fat and ext2-4 partitions will be faster access with the 8MB alignment.

# The installer is a critical "first use utility" for DebianDog. It will say a lot about us.

Options for other partition formats is good and make live-rw or not.
But this complicates the install for non-expert users.
# Maybe a tab panel, the first tab is simple install options, the second is expert.?

Doing an image install only complicates it, how to align to existing partitions.?
A single partition from an image is easy, but it makes for iso & image downloads.
Better to just have iso and live o.s. installs to keep it simple all the way around.

The vmlinuz button does install from /live of course. GtkDialog is rather limited.
An EntryBox is needed to select a iso "file" and another EntryBox for a /live "dir.".
I just did not want to have to use 2 EntryBoxes when only 1 is needed for the job.
So if you select an iso file or a vmlinuz file, then they are both files ( Really sad ).
# I can fix this with my stdDlgs utility. File: open, save, Dir.: open, new, & MsgDlg.

Having the installer(s) posted along with the DebianDog release is very good.
If we want an installer fast, let`s make a simple installer, and an expert one later.
And finding one for Windows would be good also. Post a link to it in downloads.

### Thoughts about this.?
.

anikin · #2202 Post by **anikin** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 19:36

saintless wrote:at least for me the problem is in this first empty 8Mb partition that debdog-install creates. Flash drive does not boot if this 8Mb partition is there.

8MB should be unallocated space, not a partition, see the pic below.

sunburnt wrote:The installer is a critical "first use utility" for DebianDog. It will say a lot about us.

I will have the temerity to ask you guys consider extlinux instead of grub/4dos.

fredx181 · #2203 Post by **fredx181** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 20:16

Hi all
It's hard to follow everything lately, hybrid iso, img install.....
All I can say I've been struggling with gtkdialog for the installer to include some of the suggestions and made some corrections.
Terry, I'm beginning to understand now what you said about gtkdialog.
It's not possible to get a file selection browsing for only directories, am I right?
I wanted to replace the 'vmlinuz File' button with 'select folder' which should be better I think.

Added a checkbox for disable journal on ext4 (if checked it will be done just before copying the files, uses tune2fs, no reformatting)
Check it in terminal for e.g. sdb1:

Code: Select all

dumpe2fs /dev/sdb1 | grep "Filesystem features"

If there's no 'has_journal' in that list it's not journaling.

Also changed the messages to using Xdialog instead of xmessage.

As I said I'm crap with gtkdialog so I'll keep my hands off it from now on.
Hopefully someone with better skills can improve it.
Attached new debdog-inst-mod2.zip

EDIT: Forgot to mention I also changed a line in "drive-info".
Before somehow it showed wrongly 'ext2' for a "no-journal" ext4 filesystem.

Fred

saintless · #2204 Post by **saintless** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 20:29

Thank you, Fred!

fredx181 wrote:It's hard to follow everything lately, hybrid iso, img install.....

Don't follow all ideas. They will most probably stay just ideas.

Toni

saintless · #2205 Post by **saintless** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 20:32

anikin wrote:
saintless wrote:at least for me the problem is in this first empty 8Mb partition that debdog-install creates. Flash drive does not boot if this 8Mb partition is there.

8MB should be unallocated space, not a partition, see the pic below..

Yes, you are right.
But this does not change the fact the flash drive stays unbootable for my hardware if 8Mb unalocated space is there.

Toni

saintless · #2206 Post by **saintless** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 20:50

Hi, Terry.

sunburnt wrote:# Toni; Some of the file types are not added to Rox.? Test tar.gz-bz2-xz, iso, etc.

See the picture with created archives with arcdrop. All have icon and run-action. Iso files really does not. I will fix it.

DebianDog has many other things missing like theme changing for JWM for example and GUI for clock setup.
Debdog-installer should do all like puppy one or only simple install on usb-stic. Even extra options for different formating are not needed since Gparted is included.

Terry and All - do not expect too much for DebianDog. It does not aim to replace puppy or windows. lets keep work on it mostly for our fun and for our needs.

Toni

sunburnt · #2207 Post by **sunburnt** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 20:54

Fred; Rather than have a check box, just look at drive-info for fix/rem and set it automatically.

# And yes, how sad GtkDialog truely is... I was going to suggest doing it in BaCon.???
As I said above... A dir. entry box is needed to show a dir., I did not want 2 entry boxes.
So a file must be selected, not a folder. So I chose a file to click on. I`ll fix all of this...

I wanted to replace the 'vmlinuz File' button with 'select folder' which should be better I think.

# What change did you make to drive-info to fix the ext2 to ext4 ?

##### Shall we make a simple installer for iso/live to fat/ext2-4 formatted HD/USB ?

##### And has anyone found a good Win. installer.?

Toni; here`s the complete apps that I`ve made ( no debdog-install yet ).
So you can post them at Smokey`s. Each has it`s own dir.

# Also in opt_bin is new mnt-img and ls-part files. Toni; Don`t post these 2 files.

### mnt-img I made mount, and then unmounts when run again. # Is this preferred.?
Sadly Rox throws an error on startup, but it closes the Rox-Filer just fine ( odd...).

### Run: mnt-img -h to see the help, it runs Xfe by default. Rox is my choice but it errors.

fredx181 · #2208 Post by **fredx181** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 21:18

Terry wrote:Fred; Rather than have a check box, just look at drive-info for fix/rem and set it automatically.

The checkbox is for disable journal on ext4 and I see nothing about that in drive-info.

# What change did you make to drive-info to fix the ext2 to ext4 ?

It's 'disktype' info that has it wrong, I changed:

Code: Select all

TYPE=`echo "$info" |egrep -iom1 '(ext[2-4]|fat|ntfs|swap)'`

to:

Code: Select all

TYPE=`blkid -o list "/dev/$PART" |egrep -iom1 '(ext[2-4]|fat|ntfs)'`

Fred

saintless · #2209 Post by **saintless** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 21:22

Uploaded here, Terry:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/source-code/
You have one older Wallpapers.GUI archive there also. If you like to delete it just say.

Toni

sunburnt · #2210 Post by **sunburnt** » Sat 05 Apr 2014, 21:23

Fred; As I suggested, look for "rem" and if it`s in the line, then disable the journal.
I suggest it because most folks won`t know when to do it or not. Too much to explain to them.

And it`s odd, because blkid shows ext2 for me on my ext4 USB drive. I must look at this...

Toni; Delete it...
.

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