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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 933
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 03:25    Post subject:  

Terry wrote:
# Trying to write a USB installer for DebDog. Looks like it`s going to be ultra simple.

That would be great!
I've had a look at grub4dosconfig for puppy from here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=51697
Of course it's specially for puppy but I thought maybe modify it but it's very complicated.
--------
Toni,I tried so change my system locale to my language but it worked only half.
I think there are files missing in /usr/share/locales.
For example, a reinstall of synaptic made it show in my language.
To much cleaning done maybe?

Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2727
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 03:27    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Toni; Thanks, I kinda thought we did not have disktype.

What`s the installed Squash size of "parted".? I counted to over 1 MB and quit.
disktype is 40 KB in size. Needed for file system type and both sizes.

Terry, if I you mean the same parted it adds very little:
Code:
root@debian:~# apt-get install parted 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Suggested packages:
  parted-doc
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  parted
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 23 not upgraded.
Need to get 159 kB of archives.
After this operation, 267 kB of additional disk space will be used.

I will add it if we need it. Since DebianDog has Gparted I thought it is not needed to add parted.

I will add disktype.

Toni
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2727
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 03:35    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
To much cleaning done maybe?

Hi, Fred.
Yes, but I don't think it is too much.
Not everyone will change the locales so I plan to keep /usr/share/locales in separate squashfs module on the site. I think it will be over 40 Mb uncompressed at the moment inside the main module but I need to check the exact size. I will make a separate module when we stop adding more applications to the main one.

Toni
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2350
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 07:17    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:

Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough, William.
I mean exactly that:
I login via XDM to puppy user account, but I do not start synaptic with su -c. I use su-to-root:
[code]puppy@debian:~$ su-to-root -c synaptic
...
And Synaptic works.


Ah... I think that's because su-to-root finds and uses ktsuss which runs su whilst preserving the environment (I presume, but don't know - hence /puppy/,Xauthority found and used okay when program running as root user needs to write to user X DISPLAY).

You should also be able to run it with:

su --preserve-environment -c synaptic

But if the user puppy environment is okay, then you could probably simply use: sudo -E synaptic (for example in /opt/bin/synaptic-start)

EDIT: tried it. seems to work (at least the program pops up okay, but I haven't actually tried to install anything with it...EDIT: okay, I tried installing 'unrar' and it seems to do it, but maybe something not done right - I don't know).

However, some programs might need root environment rather than user environment? EDIT: For example, if you just preserve environment, maybe the PATH won't find necessary system binaries or other side-effects?

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 933
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 07:51    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
fredx181 wrote:
To much cleaning done maybe?

Hi, Fred.
Yes, but I don't think it is too much.
Not everyone will change the locales so I plan to keep /usr/share/locales in separate squashfs module on the site. I think it will be over 40 Mb uncompressed at the moment inside the main module but I need to check the exact size. I will make a separate module when we stop adding more applications to the main one.

Toni

Ok, that should do it then.
What's your way of collecting these missing locales?
I'd like to do simular maybe with Porteus-Wheezy.

Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2727
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 08:49    Post subject:  

Hi, Fred!

I just move /usr/share/locale folder outside before making new squashfs remaster.
Unfortunately I didn't start this from the beginning and I have to download few packages manual and to extract /usr/share/locale from the deb package.

The way I see it the user can install localepurge as Sergey suggested here:
http://mail.murga-projects.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=750630&sid=fcfbc85e1de066013751ce59b51c8d8e
Then setting dpkg-reconfigure locales to choose the needed locales only for any new installed package.
Then the user can copy only the needed language folder for all included in DebianDog programs and make a remaster. This way the system will stay small as possible.
Not sure yet about the best way to make the process easier for the user but this is my view in general.

At least for me there is no need to keep all languages available just to take space if we can include only what is needed and if it is needed. User choice.

Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2727
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 09:03    Post subject:  

mcewanw wrote:
However, some programs might need root environment rather than user environment? EDIT: For example, if you just preserve environment, maybe the PATH won't find necessary system binaries or other side-effects?

Hi, William.
I'm not sure if our puppy user account has the best setup but we have some programs using su-to-root (gsu, ktsuss) and some using xterm -e sudo.
For example I think it is better to add user to some more groups than typing sudo eject for open the optical device.
As I wrote a few times it is not my intention at all to make system administrator job easier. I do not know enough to make something like this.
The point of user puppy account was to have it for you and Terry and Fred to test the programs and scripts if they work for user also. And to be sure DebianDog didn't loose multiuser support.
I think we have both now and better setting of user account is something that the user can do if it is needed.
I just like to make the installed programs work with XDM active for user. Nothing more.
Thanks to you, Fred and Terry I think it is almost done and not much left for beta iso.

Toni.

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 933
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 09:46    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Quote:
I just move /usr/share/locale folder outside before making new squashfs remaster.
Unfortunately I didn't start this from the beginning and I have to download few packages manual and to extract /usr/share/locale from the deb package.

Thanks for explaining!
Meanwhile I did some searching and found the below on Ubuntu forum.
I guess it's overdone to do this way but I wanted to know what the size of complete /usr/share/locale folder would be.
Code:
for pkg in `dpkg --get-selections | awk '{print $1}' | egrep -v '(mysql|mythtv)'` ; do apt-get -y --force-yes install --reinstall $pkg -d ; done

It will download-only every package that is installed.
Then I moved all packages from /var/cache/apt/archives to another place with enough space and extracted;
Code:
cd /path/to/packages

for arg in *.deb ; do
dpkg -x "$arg" .
done


Size of usr/share/locale: 93Mb Rolling Eyes
This on Porteus-wheezy but I guess it will be about the same for Debiandog.

So maybe it's wise to pick a few packages as you suggested.
but on the other hand it's going to be separate squashfs so size doesn't matter much in this case.

Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2727
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 09:56    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
So maybe it's wise to pick a few packages as you suggested.
but on the other hand it's going to be separate squashfs so size doesn't matter much in this case.

Thanks, Fred Smile

Not exactly the way I think to make it. Separate squash file will be uploaded but I'm thinking about copy/paste script or make-separate-language squashfs from this big squashfs or big archive with locale files uploaded on the site.
Every language is in separate folder so we can make at least the most used languages in separate small squash files also.
I'm not ready to think proper on the options now. I'm too busy with DebainDog beta iso preparation.

93 Mb sounds about what I suspect also. I stoped counting over 40 Mb. and I have to add more from previous installed packages. Only Synaptic ads 4,5 Mb locale files.

Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2727
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 10:42    Post subject:  

Fred,
just quick test from what I have shows for DebianDog the locale files will be 50-60 Mb. Not more. Maybe Porteus-Wheezy has more language files for some applications. Dillo for example downloaded with apt-get does not have at all /usr/share/locale Some packages have only 6-7 languages.

Bets compression for locale folder I have at the moment with size 48,6Mb makes 11,7Mb squashfs. It is not so bad but still prefer to keep this 11,7 Mb out of the main module.

Toni

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 933
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 11:56    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Quote:
just quick test from what I have shows for DebianDog the locale files will be 50-60 Mb. Not more.

What is the comparison, did you download all installed packages, extracted them and then looked at the size of the locale folder, as I did on Porteus-Wheezy?
Because I couldn't believe such a big difference so i just did that on DebianDog and size turns out to be 91Mb.
Just wanted to mention this, don't want to distract you from working on the beta (yessss Very Happy finally coming out soon??)
We can discuss about locale later.

Fred
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5043
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 12:55    Post subject:  

# A further thought on locales... Perhaps best if each locale "set" is separate download.?
Why would anyone want to download 90+MB of data they don`t need.?
So a DebDog gui to download and install selected locale sets individually.?

Toni; Parted allows excellent partition creation and manipulation. The cli gparted.
I`ll look at what is really needed to make the USB installer. Looking at shinobar`s grub4dosconf.

Fred; Do you know where the code/script is in Porteus initrd file that does the Live-rw dir.?
I`d like to clone it ( add-on ) to the std. Debian boot. Seems like it`s just a small code section.
Just before mounting a live-rw file, partition, or dir. partition is when we need to do a fsck.
.

Last edited by sunburnt on Mon 31 Mar 2014, 13:00; edited 2 times in total
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2727
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 12:58    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
What is the comparison, did you download all installed packages, extracted them and then looked at the size of the locale folder, as I did on Porteus-Wheezy?

Hi, Fred Smile
No I didn't do the same as you but I will in the next days. I guess you are right since my experience is from what I have saved and the DebianDog stage at the time I started to save locale files.
I just thought I couldn't miss to save 40-50% locale files but probably I did.
Your test makes even more needed to remove /usr/share/locale files from the base system. It adds too much for our needs. It is better to give user choice.

Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2727
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 13:01    Post subject:  

Hi, Terry.
sunburnt wrote:
A further thought on locales... Perhaps best if each locale "set" is separate download.?
Why would anyone want to download 90+MB of data they don`t need.?
So a DebDog gui to download and install selected locale sets individually.?

Yes, I also think of separate archives or sfs files with each locale folder inside /usr/share/locale We should do it this way.

Quote:
Toni; Parted allows excellent partition creation and manipulation. The cli gparted.
I`ll look at what is really needed to make the USB installer. Looking at shinobar`s grub4dosconf.

Parted and disktype added.

Toni

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 933
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar 2014, 13:27    Post subject:  

Hi Terry
Quote:
Fred; Do you know where the code/script is in Porteus initrd file that does the Live-rw dir.?

It should be between line 209-218 in linuxrc script (on root of extracted initrd.xz):
Code:
# Setup changes:
if [ $CHANGES ]; then
    echo $i"setting up directory for changes"
    CHNEXIT=`echo $CHANGES | cut -d: -f1`; [ $CHNEXIT = EXIT ] && CHANGES=`echo $CHANGES | cut -d: -f2-`
    locate -r $CHANGES
    if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then
   if [ -d /mnt/$DEV/$LPTH ]; then
       mkdir -p /mnt/$DEV/$LPTH/changes 2>/dev/null && \
       mount -o bind /mnt/$DEV/$LPTH/changes /memory/changes && touch /memory/changes/._test1 2>/dev/null
   else
...

I guess it won't be easy to transform this into the debian initrd, but you'll never know what some magicians can do Wink

Fred
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