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Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed 26 Mar 2014, 22:11    Post subject:  

Guys; Here is BaCon compiled on DebianDog ( thanks to Toni.! ).
# BaCon files are in BOTH archive files below, each go into it`s path.
Also the HUG ( hug.bac ) GTK+ add-on for making GUIs.
And a dev. aid called "bacon3G-sa", click on it and you`ll see what it`s for.
Also BaconDoc and HugDoc, 2 BaCon icons, and Geany`s BaCon syntax file.
# If anyone is really interested in BaCon "Basic", I`ll help you get started.

# And a new Desktop File Editor. ### Everyone check it out, it`s pretty slick.

# Toni; In the opt_bin.tar.bz2 file is the 3 new files ( I think they`re good...):
folder-changes ### Usage: folder-changes
debmenu2desktop ### Usage: debmenu2desktop (/path)[/file] [/path]
debmenu2desktop.convert ### Usage: debmenu2desktop.convert (/path/file)

Toni, An excellent job with the Devx file. BaCon compiled perfectly.
And so did debmenu2desktop.convert, now I can BaCon dev. in DebDog.!
# I noticed DebianDog compiles noticeably faster than Puppy... Great.!
usr_share_BaCon.zip
Description  Path: /usr/share
zip

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Filename  usr_share_BaCon.zip 
Filesize  99.9 KB 
Downloaded  84 Time(s) 
opt_bin.tar.bz2
Description  Path: /opt/bin
bz2

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Filename  opt_bin.tar.bz2 
Filesize  249.23 KB 
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catsezmoo

Joined: 09 Feb 2014
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 00:00    Post subject:  

Quote:
If Debian truly adopts desktop files...
I have received no reply to my post at the Debian forum. It`d be nice to hear it from them.

"adopts"?
How about: "embraces". Yes, debian embraces the org.freedesktop.pullyourhairout spec for desktop-entry files.
http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html
(as well as the org.freedesktop MENU, and menu categories, specification)

Every debian package containing a GUI application is expected to contain a .desktop (launcher) file, as well as an icon (or an alias to an existing generic icon) ~~ per the freedesktop specification:
"Icon to display in file manager, menus, etc. If the name is an absolute path, the given file will be used. If the name is not an absolute path, the algorithm described in the Icon Theme Specification will be used to locate the icon."

Each time a debian package is installed
ref: https://wiki.debian.org/DpkgTriggers
the installater automatically reads "menu category" and performs update-menus.
WELL, the installer just execs the trigger ~~ it's up to the menu manager component of the DE (xfce, gnome, kde, *box) to register instructions for that install trigger.
Many of the "___box" desktop environments lack such a trigger, so they must be updated manually (unless you write your own custom trigger script {grin})

Quote:
Seeing as Deb. menu files are kind of a mess and need lots of editing like desktop files.

The .desktop file management and menu management can drive ya to drink!
Don't blame Debian, though. Along with countless other distros, they are just following the freedesktop.org spec.
Do blame Gnome and KDE (if ya want) ~~ they flaunt, er "extend" the spec to suit themselves (often wrecking the menu-management attemtps of other DE's menu managers.

Quote:
So all the tools I`ve made are useful, but rapid "fixing" of desktop files is the most useful

Here are a few details which can drive you (me) nuts:

You need to remember to place your handcrafted .desktop files in
~share/applications (for each user!)
and/or
/etc/skel/share/applications
^--------- the freedesktop-compliant menu managers will look here, first, then will check
/usr/share/applications

(Unless package maintainer has provided custom post-install instructions)(seldom done)
With each package installation, .desktop file for an installed package will be written solely to:
/usr/share/applications
(overwriting a pre-existing same-named file pathed there, if such exists)

.desktop files provided by apps produced by the Gnome project often (annoyingly, selfishly!)
contain a line stating
OnlyShowIn=Gnome
and same goes for KDE apps.
SOMETIMES this is necessary (like, maybe the app expects/requires to be launched via kdesu, or gksu)
but user winds up installing an app, then head-scratching, wondering why it doesn't show up in their (xfce, *box, lxde, JWM) rootmenu
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 01:20    Post subject:  

Hi catsezmoo; I got a good laugh, thanks... I needed that.! Laughing
"Deb. menu files" are the Debian menu files in /usr/share/menu of course.
And yes... Both menu file types are a mess. Debian packages seem to lack *.desktop files.
# I was not aware that a folder: $HOME/share/applications was possible.
Most folders in $HOME are hidden of course. I only knew /usr/share/applications existed.


Toni; Here`s a first test of a desktop file to IceWM menu converter.
It outputs JWM menu to VTerm, and then at the end is the IceWM output.
Like the JWM output, it`s only the sub menu part, so IceWM`s programs file.
See if it`s close to what you want, and let me know what to fix and add to it.
We will have to make custom IceWM root menu and categories files for it.
# And I`ll have to rename it as it does several menu types now...
mk-jwm.main.zip
Description  Path can be anywhere, it`s just for testing.
zip

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2558
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 03:24    Post subject:  

Thank you, Terry!
I will test all tonight and write back.

Toni

_________________
Farewell, Nooby, you will be missed...
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catsezmoo

Joined: 09 Feb 2014
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 05:24    Post subject:  

Above, I typed an incorrect path. Should be ~/.local/share/applications

Maybe you're seeing missing .desktop files among the packages in "oldstable" and "stable"? Across the more recent package versions (testing/unstable repos) I can't recall noticing many which lack a .desktop file. Then again, if you're grabbing packages containing "older, lightweight" programs from those same repos, they might be same/unchanged version carried over from way-back-when.

http://packages.debian.org/some-package-name
^--- (not that you asked, but) here you can quickly check, for a given package, which repos contain which version of a package

Quote:
ref: https://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian
{snip}
Check points for any package

Is there a man page for every executable file in the package? In some rare cases it makes sense to have one man page for multiple binaries in a package.

Does it have a Debian menu entry? (daemons usually don't need this) Does it have a .desktop file?
{snip}


each of these pages has nuggets of info related to freedesktop stuff:
https://developer.gnome.org/integration-guide/stable/desktop-files.html.en
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Default_applications
http://superuser.com/questions/684613/what-are-the-mime-configuration-files-that-point-to-local-share-icons
https://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/DebianMenuUsingDesktopEntries

the package "xdg-utils" provides several org.freedesktop commands
(a separate, detailed, man page should be available for each of these)
* xdg-desktop-menu - Install desktop menu items
* xdg-desktop-icon - Install icons on the user's desktop
* xdg-icon-resource - Install icon resources
* xdg-mime - Gather MIME information about a file
* xdg-open - Open a URL in the user's preferred application that handles the respective URL or file type
* xdg-email - Open the user's preferred email client, potentially with subject and other info filled in
* xdg-screensaver - Enable, disable, or suspend the screensaver
* xdg-settings - get various settings (default web browser) from the desktop environment

============ potential sticking point?
xpm? png? https://github.com/chiku/mjwm/issues/4
JWM needs (you to specify) the extension of the icons, but debian base provides
http:// packages.debian.org/sid/hicolor-icon-theme‎ (default fallback theme for FreeDesktop.org icon themes)
and in many packages, the .desktop file Icon= line just declares an extensionless name (e.g. Icon=user-trash)
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 836
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 06:21    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
If you have time to test loadmodule:
Line 32 anyway needs to be repaced by:
Code:
NUM=`blkid -o list -c /dev/null | grep -P "squashfs" | grep  "/live/\|(in use)" | wc -l`

This makes sure that loadmodule doesn't get confused if some module is manually mounted on e.g. /media.
It works for me with and without 'showmounts' boot option.
If it still doen't work with 'no overwrite' option then I wonder:
- Are you activating module from a "real" storage? otherwise it will fail.
- Are you sure that the right (live-boot) loadmodule is first one in PATH when testing on live-boot DebianDog?
Also please test from commandline:
Code:
loadmodule -ano /path/somemodule


Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2558
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 07:19    Post subject:  

Hi, Fred.
I can do only a quick test now but there is an improvement with this new line32.
/opt/bin/loadmodule is the only one in DebianDog now. The porteus one is in 02-apps-porteus.xzm and it is not loaded.

Result without changing line32:
Code:
root@debian:~# loadmodule -ano /media/sda1/SFS/google_earth-6.0.3.2197.sfs
sfs
mount: warning: /live/google_earth-6.0.3.2197.sfs seems to be mounted read-only.
mount: you must specify the filesystem type
ERROR: Module 'google_earth-6.0.3.2197.sfs' activate failed
root@debian:~#


After changing line32 the module is loaded but gives command not found message:
Code:
root@debian:~# loadmodule -ano /media/sda1/SFS/google_earth-6.0.3.2197.sfs
sfs
/opt/bin/loadmodule: line 32: $'grep\302\240': command not found
mount: warning: /live/google_earth-6.0.3.2197.sfs seems to be mounted read-only.
SUCCESS: Module 'google_earth-6.0.3.2197.sfs' activated
ACTION: updating mimeinfo cache
root@debian:~#

I will test more tonight.

Toni
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 836
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 09:21    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Quote:
After changing line32 the module is loaded but gives command not found message:
Code:
root@debian:~# loadmodule -ano /media/sda1/SFS/google_earth-6.0.3.2197.sfs
sfs
/opt/bin/loadmodule: line 32: $'grep\302\240': command not found
mount: warning: /live/google_earth-6.0.3.2197.sfs seems to be mounted read-only.
SUCCESS: Module 'google_earth-6.0.3.2197.sfs' activated
ACTION: updating mimeinfo cache

Really, very strange, I cannot reproduce it no matter what I do, all works fine.
Tried booting without savefile, even created the same path(/media/sda1/SFS).
And where does "$'grep\302\240':" come from Question

Your last test activated it but maybe the "no overwrite" didn't work.
The message:' ....seems to be mounted read-only' is normal.
If you get again that same 'command not found' can you make some test module wich includes at least one file that exists on the main module, but then edited.
Just to see if the no overwrite worked or not.

Just in case somehow your loadmodule is different here's mine (remove dummy .tar)
Fred
loadmodule.tar
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Filename  loadmodule.tar 
Filesize  6.65 KB 
Downloaded  66 Time(s) 

Last edited by fredx181 on Thu 27 Mar 2014, 14:36; edited 2 times in total
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2558
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 09:28    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
# Toni; In the opt_bin.tar.bz2 file is the 3 new files ( I think they`re good...):
folder-changes ### Usage: folder-changes
debmenu2desktop ### Usage: debmenu2desktop (/path)[/file] [/path]
debmenu2desktop.convert ### Usage: debmenu2desktop.convert (/path/file)

Hi, Terry.
First impression all works OK when copy/remove lines in folder changes are not active. We need to execute folder-changes to find new and delete uninstaleed desktop files from /usr/share/applications This why I test it with copy/remove options active.
Here is the first problem tested with w3m as example. Folder-changes makes working desktop entry for w3m and it is startable from menu but after uninstalling w3m the desktop file is not removed from /usr/share/applications
The reason is menu file is named w3m and desktop file is named MANUAL.html.desktop Renaming . to w3m.desktop also does not fix the problem. the uninstalled w3m still have /usr/share/applications/w3m.desktop file after folder-changes is executed to remove the desktop entry.
Seems line 42 in folder changes does not work as it should. it expects something different from w3m.desktop name i guess?.
Code:
rm "$usa/$F.desktop"

Renaming to w3m.desktop after installing w3m also does not remove the desktop file when w3m is uninstalled and folder-changes executed again.
Here is the menu file for w3m:
Code:
?package(w3m):needs="text" \
  section="Applications/Network/Web Browsing" \
  title="w3m" \
  command="/usr/bin/w3m /usr/share/doc/w3m/MANUAL.html" \
  hints="Web browsers"

and the new createed copy in /usr/share/applications/MANUAL.html.desktop:
Code:
[Desktop Entry]
Type=Application
Terminal=true
Categories=Applications;Network;Web Browsing;
Name=w3m
Exec=default_virtual-terminal -e /usr/bin/w3m /usr/share/doc/w3m/MANUAL.html
Comment=Web browsers


Toni
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2558
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 09:47    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
And where does "$'grep\302\240':" come from Question

Hi, Fred...
Sorry for those troubles... You tell me how is this possible? Just copy/paste the text from your loadmodule into mine fixes the problem and grep/302/240 error is not there.
But both modules have exact the same content or I miss something... Extract the zip file attached to test mine if you can figure it out what is going one here... I still get the error with the attached module. I will use the new one for next remaster.

Toni
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2558
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 10:16    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
# BaCon files are in BOTH archive files below, each go into it`s path.
Also the HUG ( hug.bac ) GTK+ add-on for making GUIs.
And a dev. aid called "bacon3G-sa", click on it and you`ll see what it`s for.
Also BaconDoc and HugDoc, 2 BaCon icons, and Geany`s BaCon syntax file.

Hi, Terry.
I will add Bacon in the main DebianDog module but I see it needs upx installed for one of the files. Is Bacon full functional without DEVX.sfs loaded? If it is full functional without devx.sfs it is better to add Upx also in the main module. Upx is included in DEVX.sfs at the moment.

Do you prefer to have debian package for Bacon with menu and desktop files included and dpkg database register information instead manual copy in /opt/bin and /usr/share? i can make deb package of Bacon and share it on the site for other debian based linux and further reinstall in DebianDog.

Toni
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2558
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 10:31    Post subject:  

Thank you for all the information and advices you give here, Catsezmoo!

Terry, I think it is better to keep all desktop files in /usr/share/applications
No need to place some of them in ~/.local/share/applications since the menu is the same for user and root in DebianDog. We do not have separate desktop or menu files for root and user. Otherwise we have to create also ~/.local/share/menu with menu files and corresponding folders in /etc/skel
If DebianDog is used for multiuser the Administartor will create what is needed for each user if there is need for separate programs for users and root.

Toni
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:14    Post subject:  

Toni; My thought was "eventually" to make 4-6 "user accounts" for various purposes.
Like: Keosk, library, std., admin, and root, making it easy to setup different use types.
This will simplify admin. tasks for setup and organizing user accounts for DebianDog.

### Bacon must be added to the Devx file, it won`t work without the dev. tools.
# So upx in the Devx also. My script bacon.upx. makes the exec. files 10 times smaller.
BaCon changes all the time, almost weekly sometimes, so I`ll make an updater app too.
BaCon converts Basic language syntax code to C code that compiles to C exec. files.
# The exec. files stand alone, only need libc [ GTK ], and do not need the Bacon files.
# I realized there`s no /usr/share/geany for the Bacon Geany syntax file. I`ll check...

# Desktop & DebMenu nightmare... I`d name the desktop files for the menu file names.
Except like the xfe menu file, many desktop files come from it, so how to name them.?
I chose the exec. name ( command= ), but it could be the app`s item name ( label= ).
I can`t see any other way to auto. name the new desktop files. # Suggestions Toni.???
# You`re right, the $F is the menu file, it needs to be read to get the desktop files. Fix.


William; Did you say that one of the wallpaper modes ( Stretch.? ) did not work.?
See if this works, in XTerm: rox_setbg (Mode) (/Path/Wallpaper)
If it does work then WallPapers has a problem, if not it`s a Rox problem it seems...
.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2558
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:45    Post subject:  

Hi, Terry.

I like desktop-editor. It saves much time to search and edit desktop files. i will make menu entry for it. I do not inderstand some options like Nodisplay=/false/true and Type=Application/Link/Folder?

The testing mk-jwm.main for both icewm and jwm main menu works but it has to be placed in /root/.icewm or gives can't find folder. Also root and categories files should be inside /root/.icewm
Then I copy the output for icewm main in file /root/.icew/programs and you can see the result on the attached picture. I don't think we can do icewm menu without Programs subfolder easy. lets concentrate on Jwm and later we can start working on IceWM when Jwm menu is fixed.


sunburnt wrote:
Toni; My thought was "eventually" to make 4-6 "user accounts" for various purposes.
Like: Keosk, library, std., admin, and root, making it easy to setup different use types.
This will simplify admin. tasks for setup and organizing user accounts for DebianDog.

Sorry, Terry, I do not feel my self ready to make the system administarator job easy. Multiuser is new area to me and I'm sure I will make more troubles for system administrator than make his/her work easier.

I will add Bacon to the next DEVX version.

Quote:
# I realized there`s no /usr/share/geany for the Bacon Geany syntax file. I`ll check...

Is it enough to make link /opt/apps/geany/root/.config/geany folder to /usr/share or copy is better for Bacon?

Quote:
# I can`t see any other way to auto. name the new desktop files. # Suggestions Toni.???

I think if we use w3m from package(w3m) as name for desktop file will fix the problem. At least we will have less to edit later. But it will make only one package from xfe... Seems to me it is better to use package(w3m) as name for desktop file. At least the removing option will work well. We will have to make new desktop files for some applications like xfe and x11-utils but I hope it will not be very often.

Edit: Terry, leave it like it is now. We need more testing. Maybe there will not be many packages like w3m.

Toni
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 836
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 27 Mar 2014, 16:04    Post subject:  

Thanks Toni
It's a relief that it works now.
But how can this happen!
I did a "diff" on the two files and this is the outcome ( it's in line 32):
Code:
< NUM=`blkid -o list -c /dev/null | grep -P "squashfs" | grep�� "/live/\|(in use)" | wc -l`
---
> NUM=`blkid -o list -c /dev/null | grep -P "squashfs" | grep  "/live/\|(in use)" | wc -l`

The first is the problematic one as you can see on the ��.
Looking at line 32 in both files the eye can't see any difference.
How they come there; Anyone have an idea?

Fred
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