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Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 04:22    Post subject: names of default apps should best mirror those of Puppy  

One particular thing crossed my mind when I was trying out pman. The names currently used in DebianDog for default apps (e.g. default_web-browser) are not the same as those used in Puppy. That could cause a lot of problems should we wish to port Puppy utilities over to DebianDog, because sometimes Puppy utilities are coded to refer to the default apps (also defaulttexteditor and so on).

If the change doesn't have too big an impact on what has already been developed in DebianDog I would recommend using the same names for these defaults as in Puppy.

Also, when a user installs a web browser (such as iceweasel), is there currently a mechanism that alerts them to the possibility to make that the new default browser?

Toni, you seem to be making a lot of progress with JWM, which I think is excellent. I did think it would be possible to create app buttons to switch desktop with JWM but did wonder if it allowed the hiding of its existing change desktop buttons - I hope it does. If the worst came to the worst, you might need to leave the wallpaper changer only for icewm somehow. Presumably JWM, which is still being developed, would eventually provide its own mechanism for different wallpapers. There is also the one advantage to the existing JWM menu buttons in that they show a small image of what windows are currently open in each desktop (or am I confusing that facility with the xfce4 tray in Porteus-Wheezy, which I know provides that effect? I'll check in Puppy Precise).

Long term it would be good if we had a mechanism for reading desktop files and creating menus, since, as you mentioned, many apps may eventually stop supporting debian menu system, and simply provide .desktop files - I'm not sure how easy it would be to create such a mechanism though.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 04:38    Post subject: Re: names of default apps should best mirror those of Puppy  

Hi, William.
mcewanw wrote:
If the change doesn't have too big an impact on what has already been developed in DebianDog I would recommend using the same names for these defaults as in Puppy.

I'm not sure what we can do about this without breaking set default apps application from Terry. I think he can answer proper to this question.


Quote:
Also, when a user installs a web browser (such as iceweasel), is there currently a mechanism that alerts them to the possibility to make that the new default browser?

Not one I know about. Isn't every new version browser gives a message on first run to set it as default? At least Firefox does it even with old versions.

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 04:48    Post subject:  

I see that JWM already allows a different background to be set for each of its virtual desktops (the most recent JWM does anyway). Is that what you are using Toni?
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 04:58    Post subject:  

I'm not sure of the JWM version but is newest from apt-get.
I guess it supports different wallpaper for each desktop but it has to be modified from text editor for every change. It will be good to have wallpapers.gui working the same way as in IceWM.
Going out for few hours.
Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 05:23    Post subject: Re: names of default apps should best mirror those of Puppy  

saintless wrote:
Hi, William.
mcewanw wrote:
If the change doesn't have too big an impact on what has already been developed in DebianDog I would recommend using the same names for these defaults as in Puppy.

I'm not sure what we can do about this without breaking set default apps application from Terry. I think he can answer proper to this question.


Well I guess it's not really a problem. Links are cheap. For the rare event that a different defaultxxxname link is required to make a Puppy utility work, it is perfectly okay to just create a second link to the actual app, but with the different name. Sometimes a script might be required instead of a link, but once again having that called a different name won't be a problem in practice. There may even be some occasions when it would cause a problem if the default links had the same name as the default scripts in Puppy, though I can't think of one at the moment.

Yes, I see what you mean about JWM virtual desktop backgrounds; it certainly makes things easier if the same solution can be used for both desktops. Anyway, no reason other ideas couldn't be tried later that allows wallpaper utilities to vary what scripts they call depending on the active window manager. I should think it is possible to use 'sed' on .jwmrc to simply swap the background image for a particular desktop in JWM, but that would just be a future option to try. (EDIT: I think the virtual desktop background option may not work when Rox is being used to provide the pinboard - Rox presumably needed to provide the background also as per how we are doing it with icewm. I'm not sure. I'll experiment further sometime).

It was probably the "Pager" effect on the buttons I was referring to in my last post; I have a feeling the Pagers can be turned off but I'll have to check in Puppy, which I'll quickly do now before I head off to sleep.
EDIT: From a quick check in Puppy Precise, it seems that the number of virtual desktops is controlled via the <Desktops> tag, but the buttons on the tray are controlled by the <Pagers> tag and that you can hide these buttons by removing the <Pagers> tag. By doing so, I find I no longer have buttons for the different desktops but I can still move between them using the mouse scroll wheel.

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Last edited by mcewanw on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 07:31; edited 4 times in total
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 424
Location: holland

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 06:31    Post subject:  

@William, Thanks for suggesting pman, very nice!

Toni, all
I thought it would be nice to have some sort of welcome message with colors and below that, some useful info that the user can see at boot and when exiting X.
Copy the below and paste in a file named for example "welcome" and of course edit as you like.
Code:

  -----------------------------------------------------------

          . ''.    ====================                 
         : :'  :   Welcome to DebianDog   
         .  '-'    ====================   
          '-                         


   The system is up and running now.

   Login as root with password marina or puppy with password puppy.

   Press Ctrl+Alt+F1 to go to login prompt after exiting X.
   If X won't start automatically after login type startx.

  -----------------------------------------------------------
 

When pasted in geany it should show lots of "ESC" characters (before every color code).
Then put in /etc/rc.local a line like:
Code:
cat <path/to>/welcome

Reboot and it should show on tty6 or tty5 (not sure which one when exiting X)

EDIT: To make the fonts thicker in console it could help to edit the file: /etc/defaults/console-setup
Then change:
Code:
FONTFACE="Fixed"

to:
Code:
FONTFACE="TerminusBoldVGA"


Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 07:39    Post subject:  

Thank you, Fred!
I will include the welcome message.

Thank you for the pager tip, William!
I will test it tonight. I see form quick check /etc/jwm/system.jwmrc has pager label=true Setting to false might be enough.

Toni

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tony

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 307
Location: Montreal.ca

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 08:26    Post subject:  

Hi,

We need more than a welcoming message.

We need to be able to set up a firewall, our keyboards and our timezones.

Regards Tony.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 09:00    Post subject:  

Hi, Tony

if you or someone else can share simple way - script or small program as Firewall it will be included. As long as it doesn't take much space. You can always use apt-get to install firewall application like firestarter for example.
Timezone setup:
Code:
tzselect

Enter and follow the instructions.

Keyboard setup:
Code:
dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration

Enter and follow the instructions.

Regards, Toni
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 09:16    Post subject:  

Thank you, William.
Removing the pagers line did the trick Smile

Fred, thank you.
Is it OK if I copy the welcome code in /etc/motd ?
It does the same job I think.

Toni
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 10:33    Post subject:  

tony wrote:
We need to be able to set up a firewall

Hi, Tony.
Can you please test one of these:
1. dtc-xen-firewall
2. apf-firewall
3. ipkungfu
4. arno-iptables-firewall
5. fiaif

Just apt get them one by one and test.
I prefer 1, 2 and 3 regarding the small size they add. If you are happy with one of them we will include it in DebianDog.

Toni

Last edited by saintless on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 15:39; edited 1 time in total
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 424
Location: holland

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 10:34    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Quote:
Is it OK if I copy the welcome code in /etc/motd ?
It does the same job I think.

Well, my idea was apart from welcome message that the user gets info of what to do to start X again after logging out from menu.
When copying to /etc/motd that isn't the case because it shows then only on tty1 and logging out goes to tty5/6 AFAIK.
Maybe do both /etc/motd and my suggestion (in rc.local)?

Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 10:40    Post subject:  

OK, Fred, I understand.
I will include it only in rc.local.
Should I uncomment tty5 and tty6 then?
In /etc/inittab only tty1 and tty2 are uncommented at the moment.

Toni
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 424
Location: holland

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 10:49    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Quote:
Should I uncomment tty5 and tty6 then?
In /etc/inittab only tty1 and tty2 are uncommented at the moment.

No, just leave it like that, I have the same as you in inittab and still logging out from menu goes to tty5/6
I think best to put the welcome line as last in rc.local.

Fred
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 424
Location: holland

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 12:36    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Here's another one, with much bigger debian logo.
Choose which one you like Smile
Code:


           _,ggg$$$$$gg.  
        ,g$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$P.  
      ,g$$P""       """Y$$.".  
     ,$$P'              `$$$.         ====================      
   ',$$P       ,ggs.     `$$b:        Welcome to DebianDog    
   `d$$'     ,$P"'   .    $$$         ====================    
    $$P      d$'     ,    $$P       
    $$:      $$.   -    ,d$$     The system is up and running now. 
    $$;      Y$b._   _,d$P'         
    Y$$.    `.`"Y$$$$P"'           
    `$$b      "-.__                 
     `Y$$b                                
      `Y$$.        Login as root with password marina or puppy with password puppy. 
        `$$b.                             
         `Y$$b.         Press Ctrl+Alt+F1 to go to login prompt after exiting X.
            `"Y$b._     If X won't start automatically after login type startx.                     
                `""""               


Fred
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