Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

[sunburnt]

Toni; I`m pissed that Rox has no easy way to set associations. Only by installing Perl.
It`s hard to imagine something so important is so poorly supported. It`s incompetent of them.
# Associations are needed for: .tar.bz2, .tar.xz, .gz, .bz2, .xz. And many more types too.

# MtPaint really needs it`s docs.

### Does anyone have a good way of detecting the latest Firefox version in Bash code.?
I have made 3 different ways to do it, but they`re all complex parsing of web pages.
Downloading Firefox is easy if you know the one you want. Latest version is now 27.0.1
They have a new one every other week. I need my app to get the version automatically.
.

[mcewanw]

Toni; I`m pissed that Rox has no easy way to set associations. Only by installing Perl.
.

Terry, I think most of perl is already there so you would just need to perl mime info which uncompressed is 254kB on my system at least (I doubt I have any extra dependencies already installed so 254kB seems likely. Once the mime types have been determined using that for Rox, is it not possible to simply remove the mimeinfo addition?

[saintless]

Hi, all.

I have a small doubts about setting up debian menu the way we do. I think after installing more and more applications the structure could be changed from what we have it now. I will test some more installed applications to see how it works with both configurations.

www-browser on top menu is still there in DebianDog. It is renamed to h3v and pointed to h3v executable since this is the only web-browser. Easy to be changed from Icewm-Control-Center or text editor from $HOME/.icewm/menu I can rename it back to www-browser if you like.

Terry:

Toni; I couldn`t get the same results you spoke of, but I did find a flaw in desktop.ctrl.
I had thought that WallPapers would be "off" on first boot, but I see you run it as default.

I do not run it as default in my last remaster and it can be some kind related to the problem. I will test your new files to see if the problem is still there.

# Also a Debian girlie pix to add to DebianDog. Too racy...?

Sorry, Terry I really like to include it + I found few more I also like while 01-v3.squashfs was ready for upload, but since the hosting is kindly provided for free by Smokey I like to play safe.
BTW I think to leave only 4 or 5 wallpapers. as default. The Dog and LinuxVillage we should include in my opinion. The rest we can change but I prefer to keep the wallpapers folder maximum 1 Mb. it is 2 Mb at the moment.

Toni; I`m pissed that Rox has no easy way to set associations. Only by installing Perl.
It`s hard to imagine something so important is so poorly supported. It`s incompetent of them.

I do not find perl-mime-info with apt-get. What will be the final size added, Terry? Can you test this?

# Associations are needed for: .tar.bz2, .tar.xz, .gz, .bz2, .xz. And many more types too.

I have it on my mind.

# MtPaint really needs it`s docs.

Way is so important for Mtpaint? Even if I include the docs for mtpaint the next remaster done by the user will make them zero-size by RemasterDog. Note /usr/share/doc will be over 15 Mb at the moment without this cleaning. Can you suggest some way to point mtpaint docs to be used in different folder instead /usr/share/doc?

Toni

[mcewanw]

I think after installing more and more applications the structure could be changed from what we have it now.

Yes, we can't control that really; I thought about that too. Debian menu system is dynamic and adjusts itself in an attempt to make sure there are never an excessive number of entries in any one menu category. But it is a program algorithm whose variable result may not always be the best from a human perspective. But there is no such thing as a perfect automatic menu system and human hand-crafted menus are too much work and prone to human error and different aesthetic point of views anyway.

The only thing is that it might be worth forcing it to drop submenus by modifying icewm-common per your original suggestion about that; but also modify menu.h using these other 'hint' techniques so that there is a fair chance jwm menus won't be too bad either? Thereafter leave it up to system admins to re-modify menu as and when they feel it appropriate?

[mcewanw]

Sorry, Toni, I should have said: libfile-mimeinfo-perl, which is what it is called in Debian repository (if that is the correct file).

As far as keeping wallpapers size down, just for the default release case, perhaps we could include a couple of plain background ones (blue for example) since they are tiny files, in addition to the Dog and Linux village? Come to think of it, that last one Terry uploaded almost is a plain blue background - it was pretty blue anyway hahaha!

For mtpaint docs, how about just the online html handbook:

http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook/index.html

Admittedly, we never use mtpaint in this house. I read through the docs once and tried to encourage my artist/architect daughter to try it... she still brings it up sarcastically when I mention linux (she uses Mac). So I installed gimp just for her, prior to her getting the Mac (though alas she really prefers photoshop) and I install something like Tuxpaint or even xpaint just for the younger children of the house playing around.

Some pointer to the mtpaint docs are certainly necessary - which my daughter would say is a measure of the non-intuitive nature of its interface. Having said that, it is amazing how many graphics functions have been crammed into such a small program (if only we could master them all or remember even a subset).

By the way, Terry's wallpaper programs seem to work for me, though I haven't really given them a thorough testing.

[saintless]

Here are fixes to both desktop.ctrl and wallpapers.gui

And new ArcDrop that extracts Squash and ISO files, and makes Squash files.
It has a new menu, so all the files are new. You can see it now adds PID to file name.

If these apps prove good, I`ll post the BaCon files for you to upload to Smoky`s.

Hi, Terry
Quickly tested but seems wallpapers and arcdrop work. I wonder why previous wallpapers has troubles on my system but it does not matter now.

Toni

[saintless]

Hi, William.

It takes much time and test what is best about menu structure. It is too early to decide the final solution. I have to find a way to edit proper jwmrc file to add system and utilities folders with the same programs. JWM menu is even better because it has all folders in the main start menu. In Icewm we have Programs-> Folders
But JWM keeps empty Debian and System folders as well. I still do not know how exactly to fix this.

libfile-mimeinfo-perl - I will install this to check the size but I do not know how to setup mime types after installing it. Too many other things to fix till I get to mime types trials.

Online mtpaint book - what do you mean William? To include somehow mtpaint Help menu to point to online mtpaint book or something else? I use mtpaint for simple editing actions and never needed help file for my needs.

Toni

[saintless]

Sorry, Toni, I should have said: libfile-mimeinfo-perl, which is what it is called in Debian repository (if that is the correct file).

Hi, Terry, William.
If this is all we need to have working mime types it is only 254 K as William wrote. No problem to include it.

Toni

[sunburnt]

Toni; I`ve had problems with a few things and I figured they`d fix themselves, and they did.

I`ll look at usage of mimeinfo-perl, some folks seem to think it`s easy to use.
# But Rox has a database file that holds this info. Can`t they just spell it out for their users.?

# We have JWM now, shouldn`t there be a way to switch between WMs ( maybe there is ).
And this brings up a whole new list of menu problems...
# If Debian auto-menu system can be shut off, perhaps write a custom auto-menu setup.?

I`ll see how to make MtPaint find it`s docs. I agree it`s not an easy app to learn or use.
The docs are < 2.5 MB when XZ/Squash compressed.
MtPaint uses a default browser, but it won`t work with online docs, only local ( WTF ??? ).
# Per William`s idea, just make a Menu Item to run H3V pointed to the Docs URL.

# Menu Item should probably be "WWW Browser", and should run "default_web-browser"
This way installing other browsers can simply make a new default link.

I realized I need to make ArcDrop do: Squash-GZ and Squash-XZ
# Is this good for Sqaush XZ comperssion options.? " -comp xz -b 1M"
.

[mcewanw]

Sorry, Toni, I should have said: libfile-mimeinfo-perl, which is what it is called in Debian repository (if that is the correct file).

Hi, Terry, William.
If this is all we need to have working mime types it is only 254 K as William wrote. No problem to include it.

Toni

Sorry, Toni, I've never used it. Just noticed Terry mentioning perl solution and found what looked like the file to apt-get. You'll have to ask Terry for more details.

Similarly, I just noted that Terry was wanting mtpaint docs, so was just suggesting you could somehow make a browser link to that somehow. I do note that H3V browser has a panel of links - the mtpaint online docs could be one of these I suppose. Of course, most all users will be apt-getting a main browser of their own choice. Like I say I never use mtpaint so docs don't matter to me, but I do think it is a tricky program to master beyond the basics (and even some of the basics...)

EDIT: But see my next post regarding mtpaint help.

[mcewanw]

I think you can just open mtpaint and edit Image -> Preferences to point the entry box 'Location of Handbook Index' to a shell script which loads the browser with address: http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook ... ap_00.html or something like that.

EDIT: As Terry points out, the above doesn't work. So I think you need to create an extra small shell script (e.g. /opt/bin/mtpaint_help), and have an icon/menu item for that, as Terry suggests. Mtpaint itself won't open it unfortunately:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
default_web-browser http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook/en_GB/chap_00.html

It's also a nice trick in Puppy linux that whenever you type man xxx in a terminal, it immediately opens a browser and takes you to online man page. See following link for pointer to how it is done in Puppy:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 509#502509

Puppy apparently uses a script in /usr/bin/man that refers to "http://linux.die.net/man/${SECTION}/${NAME}"

[sunburnt]

Willaim; My post above yours says MtPaint won`t use the web docs. ( WHY.??? )
So I suggest a Menu Item next to MtPaint to run H3V and load the web page docs.

# I like the idea you suggest for the man pages... That`s a really good idea.

[mcewanw]

Willaim; My post above yours says MtPaint won`t use the web docs. ( WHY.??? )
So I suggest a Menu Item next to MtPaint to run H3V and load the web page docs.

You are right Terry. I've edited my post above to reflect your comment. You are wrong how you spell my name though... ;-)

[mcewanw]

Puppy actually uses a shell script called pman for fetching man pages into the web browser, and 'man' is created as a symbolic link pointing to target pman.

I have tried pman in DebianDog and found that it basically functions without modification, at least for fetching man pages as long as iceweasel is installed or some other declared browser (but doesn't work with H3V). Aside from H3V, you can edit line 42 of pman to alter the list of browsers it will look for (e.g. add chromium, chrome, iron etc; dillo, opera, seamonkey and firefox are already listed there):

Code: Select all

HTMLVIEWERS="$BROWSER defaulthtmlviewer defaultbrowser dillo seamonkey mozilla firefox opera"

There is a terminal error message generated by pman (though it still works despite the error message) because DebianDog doesn't use /root/.packages. you can remove that error message by simply commenting out line 156 in pman, which should be:

Code: Select all

HOMESITE="`grep -i "$pPATTERN" /root/.packages/PKGS_HOMEPAGES | head -n 1 | cut -f 2 -d ' '`"

Please find pman attached (this version from Puppy Precise 5.6.1). Simply remove the dummy tar and place it in /opt/bin and create the symbolic link 'man' there pointing to it.

Usage is simply to open a terminal and type, for example:

Code: Select all

man ls

Some man pages, howevere, appear in more than one section:

For example try:

Code: Select all

man read

and by default you will get the section 2 version of it. However, you can specify the alternative section for this command like this:

Code: Select all

man 1 read

which gives the section 1 man page for read.

From looking quickly at the code, pman has been internationalised and will also search for doc files in /usr/share/doc hierarchy. I don't know if these parts of it will work without modification in DebianDog. Still very useful without that and I think it is worth leaving that extra code in for later mods if necessary to bring its full functionality to DebianDog.

[saintless]

Hi, all.

William. Thank you for pman. I will include it and test it.
I will create menu entry for mtpaint help based on the script you suggest.

Terry,

# We have JWM now, shouldn`t there be a way to switch between WMs ( maybe there is ).

There is auto created menu switch but it is no good. I will make a switch to modify $HOME/startup and .xsession files and autologin and startx.

And this brings up a whole new list of menu problems...
# If Debian auto-menu system can be shut off, perhaps write a custom auto-menu setup.?

Not many problems really. Already found how to create System and Utilities menus like in IceWM. The rest of the menu is allmost the same between both WM I got also wallpapers.gui working for JWM.
Problems I see to the moment:
1. The fix for only one entry in menu folder does not work the same way for JWM (it should be fixable).
2. I created four taskbar buttons for each desktop and they work for wallpapers change, but I can't find a way to hide the original desktop change buttons yet.

But the idea for auto generated from .desktop files menu is very good as long it does not need any more packages installed.

# Menu Item should probably be "WWW Browser", and should run "default_web-browser"
This way installing other browsers can simply make a new default link.

I will change it this way.

I realized I need to make ArcDrop do: Squash-GZ and Squash-XZ
# Is this good for Sqaush XZ comperssion options.? " -comp xz -b 1M"

Yes, it is fine.

Toni

[mcewanw]

One particular thing crossed my mind when I was trying out pman. The names currently used in DebianDog for default apps (e.g. default_web-browser) are not the same as those used in Puppy. That could cause a lot of problems should we wish to port Puppy utilities over to DebianDog, because sometimes Puppy utilities are coded to refer to the default apps (also defaulttexteditor and so on).

If the change doesn't have too big an impact on what has already been developed in DebianDog I would recommend using the same names for these defaults as in Puppy.

Also, when a user installs a web browser (such as iceweasel), is there currently a mechanism that alerts them to the possibility to make that the new default browser?

Toni, you seem to be making a lot of progress with JWM, which I think is excellent. I did think it would be possible to create app buttons to switch desktop with JWM but did wonder if it allowed the hiding of its existing change desktop buttons - I hope it does. If the worst came to the worst, you might need to leave the wallpaper changer only for icewm somehow. Presumably JWM, which is still being developed, would eventually provide its own mechanism for different wallpapers. There is also the one advantage to the existing JWM menu buttons in that they show a small image of what windows are currently open in each desktop (or am I confusing that facility with the xfce4 tray in Porteus-Wheezy, which I know provides that effect? I'll check in Puppy Precise).

Long term it would be good if we had a mechanism for reading desktop files and creating menus, since, as you mentioned, many apps may eventually stop supporting debian menu system, and simply provide .desktop files - I'm not sure how easy it would be to create such a mechanism though.

[saintless]

Hi, William.

If the change doesn't have too big an impact on what has already been developed in DebianDog I would recommend using the same names for these defaults as in Puppy.

I'm not sure what we can do about this without breaking set default apps application from Terry. I think he can answer proper to this question.

Also, when a user installs a web browser (such as iceweasel), is there currently a mechanism that alerts them to the possibility to make that the new default browser?

Not one I know about. Isn't every new version browser gives a message on first run to set it as default? At least Firefox does it even with old versions.

Toni

[mcewanw]

I see that JWM already allows a different background to be set for each of its virtual desktops (the most recent JWM does anyway). Is that what you are using Toni?

[saintless]

I'm not sure of the JWM version but is newest from apt-get.
I guess it supports different wallpaper for each desktop but it has to be modified from text editor for every change. It will be good to have wallpapers.gui working the same way as in IceWM.
Going out for few hours.
Toni

[mcewanw]

Hi, William.

If the change doesn't have too big an impact on what has already been developed in DebianDog I would recommend using the same names for these defaults as in Puppy.

I'm not sure what we can do about this without breaking set default apps application from Terry. I think he can answer proper to this question.

Well I guess it's not really a problem. Links are cheap. For the rare event that a different defaultxxxname link is required to make a Puppy utility work, it is perfectly okay to just create a second link to the actual app, but with the different name. Sometimes a script might be required instead of a link, but once again having that called a different name won't be a problem in practice. There may even be some occasions when it would cause a problem if the default links had the same name as the default scripts in Puppy, though I can't think of one at the moment.

Yes, I see what you mean about JWM virtual desktop backgrounds; it certainly makes things easier if the same solution can be used for both desktops. Anyway, no reason other ideas couldn't be tried later that allows wallpaper utilities to vary what scripts they call depending on the active window manager. I should think it is possible to use 'sed' on .jwmrc to simply swap the background image for a particular desktop in JWM, but that would just be a future option to try. (EDIT: I think the virtual desktop background option may not work when Rox is being used to provide the pinboard - Rox presumably needed to provide the background also as per how we are doing it with icewm. I'm not sure. I'll experiment further sometime).

It was probably the "Pager" effect on the buttons I was referring to in my last post; I have a feeling the Pagers can be turned off but I'll have to check in Puppy, which I'll quickly do now before I head off to sleep.
EDIT: From a quick check in Puppy Precise, it seems that the number of virtual desktops is controlled via the <Desktops> tag, but the buttons on the tray are controlled by the <Pagers> tag and that you can hide these buttons by removing the <Pagers> tag. By doing so, I find I no longer have buttons for the different desktops but I can still move between them using the mouse scroll wheel.