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Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2323
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 15:03    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
Hi, William,

Can you, please, experiment with last Fred's suggestion about start menu
...
If you like this menu structure and the menu subject is closed I agree to use it and we can go further.

Toni


Hi Toni, I'll check out that menu today. It looks good from the images posted.

As far as latest Porteus-Wheezy is concerned, I'm planning to double check it on my netbook and if, as I suspect, the kernel rather than a bad md5sum is the issue, I'll continue further testing with the older kernel squashfile you suggest.

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 735
Location: holland

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 16:46    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Quote:
Rox does not have menu entry which is strange because it is apt-get installed program. This makes me think some programs does not create /usr/share/applications/*.desktop file?

Indeed that's strange, I had same problem with Rox on xfce, had to create .desktop file manually.
But I can assure you that this is an exception, for years I use xfce and never had this issue.
But yes there's a little confusing difference for example xhippo which has in .desktop file "Categories=Audio" and isn't recognized with xdg_menu.
btw, I like Category "Other' because when something is wrong with the .desktop file it still appears in the menu

Again in the meantime I made improvement to xdg_menu, now with category icons Smile (see pic below)
Also below new xdg-menu-icewm.zip

Quote:
you can use 02-486-kernel.squashfs (rename to .xzm) + vmlinuz1 + initrd1.xz from DebianDog-PorteusDog.iso to boot tha latest Porteus-Wheezy with the old kernel if you like to use it this way for testing

That's very clever Smile I didn't think of it.

EDIT: I just see the "Other" category is missing in the picture, that's because I fixed xhippo and xrecord .desktop files in /usr/share/applications (included in the archive)

Regards,
Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2368
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 17:02    Post subject:  

Hi, Fred.
fredx181 wrote:
Again in the meantime I made improvement to xdg_menu, now with category icons Smile (see pic below)
Also below new xdg-menu-icewm.zip

Thank you! I will test it better tomorrow with more applications installed.
Quote:
btw, I like Category "Other' because when something is wrong with the .desktop file it still appears in the menu

I agree this is really good reason to have Other category then.

Toni

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 735
Location: holland

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 17:22    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Quote:
Thank you! I will test it better tomorrow with more applications installed

Thanks Toni Smile
Take your time and the last thing I want is to force things on you.
The DebianDog-icewm-wheezy is of course your project so it's your choice to include what you want.
I just like sometimes to explore/improve things Very Happy

I forgot to mention:
The script xdg_menu is changed, so it's needed to remove it's cache directory otherwise it won't work.
So before running "update-menus" do in terminal:
Code:
rm -rf ~/.xdg_menu_cache


Fred
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2323
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 17:34    Post subject:  

Fred, Toni: re: DebianDog start menu, I feel that 5MB extra uncompressed just for flexibility in changing menu style is still a bit painful - unless somehow optional. I'm not sure. Shortly trying out xdg-menu package though, with your suggestions.

Just prior to trying out the xdg-menu package I've been doing some background reading and note a couple of interesting puppy threads and implementations. You may well be aware of these but if not they might be worth investigating for alternative 'solutions'. A quick look at the involved scripts suggests to me that they are very 'Puppy' oriented though, so possibly not very easily adapted:

Puppy dynamic menu structure Project by rarsa:

http://dotpups.de/dotpups/WindowManagers/XDG-Menusystem/_README.htm
http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=21105&sid=25a071728d0d86554265423c424668de#21105

rarsa wrote:
Support for IceWM completed!
...
Please notice that there are already scripts available for IceWM and Fvwm. The problem is that they depend either on Python or on Perl. I tried to keep it as simple as possible


New xdg menu for Puppy by Mobeus:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=699412#699412
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=85422

Mobeus wrote:
Lightweight, compiled in C and only depends on gtk2 or gtk3 and gnome-menus, which are standard Puppy components. Menu editors from other OSs mostly have dependencies like perl or python or java. After studying the freedesktop.org spec I realized that Puppy’s menu system could be simplified and would actually conform to the spec better than it does now. So, I reworked it and built the menu generator that produced the menu in the screenshot above.

So far the system will generate menus for icewm, jwm, and openbox/lxpanel, which are the ones I use mostly. It even supports openbox/lxpanel with menu-cache. It should also support other desktops or panels that use freedesktop.org xdg menus. I plan to add fbpanel too, if there is any interest. The system and editor will support individual user menus too, should that ever be desired.


Note that the main part of Mobeus's work is written in BaCon I believe, so maybe Terry would like to check that out.

Of course you'd have to have gnome-menus without all the python bits and pieces apt-get installs for it. I presume it doesn't need python since the comment above says gnome-menus is installed by default in Puppy and libgnome-menu from puppy precise (if that is all that is required) is under 100k uncompressed).

Last edited by mcewanw on Sat 22 Feb 2014, 02:50; edited 3 times in total
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2323
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 18:24    Post subject:  

In addition to my above post, I also wondering if the standard Debian menu structure can't be changed anyway? The following seems to suggest so, though I haven't tried it out myself yet:

http://debian-handbook.info/browse/wheezy/sect.customizing-graphical-interface.html

Quote:
The administrator can also have a say in the process and in the resulting generated menus. First, they can delete a menu element even when the matching application is installed, by simply storing in /etc/menu/ an empty file named according to the package providing the entries to be disabled. Second, the menu can be reorganized and sections renamed or grouped. The /etc/menu-methods/translate_menus file is where this reorganization is defined and contains commented examples. Finally, new elements can be added to the menu, for example to start programs installed outside the packaging system, or to run a particular command such as starting a web browser on a particular page. These extra elements are specified in /etc/menu/local.element files, which have the same format as other menu files available under /usr/share/menu/.


The debian-handbook also states:

Quote:
Debian provides its own menu system, but both GNOME and KDE developed their own menu management solutions as well. The two projects agreed on a format for these menus — more precisely, a common format for the .desktop files that represent menu elements — under the FreeDesktop.org umbrella project.
→ http://www.freedesktop.org/
The Debian developers have kept a close eye on this project and .desktop files can be generated from the Debian menu system (with the help of the menu-xdg package).


EDIT: I've been trying modifying /etc/menu-methods/translate_menus and then running update-menus (not the one from Fred, the original in /usr/bin). The file /etc/X11/icewm/programs gets rewritten, but there are no changes made to it. Does anyone know how to use translate_menus and can give a simple example? Very little about this when I googled, and though I can see that update-menus does read translate_menus, the latter doesn't seem to do anything at all with any substitutions or whatever I put in it.

Seems that Debian aren't too sure about whether to continue with Debian menu system:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=707851

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Last edited by mcewanw on Fri 21 Feb 2014, 23:57; edited 3 times in total
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tigs

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri 21 Feb 2014, 22:09    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:

Perhaps you mean with pupmode=13 and click the Save icon.
Same thing can be done on porteus-wheezy, but only when using "changes=EXIT:/.." boot option.

Fred


Thanks Fred for your time answering. I did mean pupmode=13. I tried the "changes=EXIT:/.."
It didn't work the same way as pupmode=13. It does save changes as you choose to, but I gather it does not do the saving the same wayas puppy, which saves changes to a .4fs file, which bahaves like a sfs module, can be mounted as either read-only or read/write. i guess the ext4 file can not be mounted as read-only as in the case of write-protected SD Card or USB drive. This explains why once write -protection is on, the ext4 can not be mounted at boot, because it is meant to be R/W.

I do not want to distract you too much. I just wonder this feature can be implemented in the future.

Thanks
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2368
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 01:05    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
Take your time and the last thing I want is to force things on you.
.....
I just like sometimes to explore/improve things Very Happy

Thank you, Fred! Smile


mcewanw wrote:
Fred, Toni: re: DebianDog start menu, I feel that 5MB extra uncompressed just for flexibility in changing menu style is still a bit painful - unless somehow optional. I'm not sure. Shortly trying out xdg-menu package though, with your suggestions.

Hi, William. I will make small separate sfs with Fred's update-menus structure for now. Included or not it is good to have it as option for DebianDog.
I will explore the links you posted.

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2323
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 01:07    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:

Hi, William. I will make small separate sfs with Fred's update-menus structure for now. Included or not it is good to have it as option for DebianDog.


I think that is currently the best approach. Note that in addition to Fred's /opt/bin/update-menus there is the existing /usr/bin/update-menus, which is different of course. It would be good if Puppy user "Mobeus" was reading this thread, perhaps he could help with the menu. Unfortunately, I don't know if he is still actively using this forum since his last post here seems to have been around June last year.

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2323
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 03:24    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
fredx181 wrote:
Hi William
Quote:
The newer version kernel apparently doesn't like the netbook;

OK, so that seems like disadvantage of the newer kernel.
Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kernel.iso was for testing and isn't as complete as the last one.

William,
you can use 02-486-kernel.squashfs (rename to .xzm) + vmlinuz1 + initrd1.xz from DebianDog-PorteusDog.iso to boot tha latest Porteus-Wheezy with the old kernel if you like to use it this way for testing.

Toni


Thanks Toni, that worked (well, I've tried it on this other machine, so expect it will be fine on the emachines netbook too). Posting from the combination you suggested right now.

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 735
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 06:18    Post subject:  

Hi tigs
Quote:
It didn't work the same way as pupmode=13. It does save changes as you choose to, but I gather it does not do the saving the same wayas puppy, which saves changes to a .4fs file, which bahaves like a sfs module, can be mounted as either read-only or read/write. i guess the ext4 file can not be mounted as read-only as in the case of write-protected SD Card or USB drive. This explains why once write -protection is on, the ext4 can not be mounted at boot, because it is meant to be R/W.

It's not clear to me if you use a directory for changes or a file (e.g. changes.dat)
Did you try "changes=EXIT:/<path/to>/changes.dat" ?(changes.dat needs to be created first of course)
AFAIK the save file changes.dat is in fact the same as e.g. pupsave.4fs (behaves like a sfs module also)
But I don't know if it can be mounted read-only when write-protection is on.

Fred
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tony

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 316
Location: Montreal.ca

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 09:38    Post subject:  

Hi,

my EeePC 1015PEM would not boot Porteus Wheezy2-2-deb-kern-3.12.iso

First hangs on loading my swap partition. Booting with noswap option then hangs

at :- dhcpcd[2458]:Version 5.64 starting ... Booting with nonetwork option gives no change.

Why is it trying to connect to router on first boot without a password?

It might not be a kernel problem but an initrd problem.

So far Debian light has worked well for me. apt-get is a big advantage paid for by a bit of bloat.

Anyone reading this, give it a go. We need more testers.

Thanks for all the hard work.

Regards Tony.
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2323
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 10:38    Post subject:  

tony wrote:

my EeePC 1015PEM would not boot Porteus Wheezy2-2-deb-kern-3.12.iso

First hangs on loading my swap partition. Booting with noswap option then hangs

at :- dhcpcd[2458]:Version 5.64 starting ... Booting with nonetwork option gives no change.


That was the same boot hang I was getting on my emachines netbook as I posted here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=760051#760051

Downgrading the kernel via the method saintless (Toni) suggested in following post worked for me:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=760167#760167

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2368
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 12:54    Post subject:  

mcewanw wrote:
tony wrote:

my EeePC 1015PEM would not boot Porteus Wheezy2-2-deb-kern-3.12.iso

First hangs on loading my swap partition. Booting with noswap option then hangs

at :- dhcpcd[2458]:Version 5.64 starting ... Booting with nonetwork option gives no change.


That was the same boot hang I was getting on my emachines netbook as I posted here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=760051#760051

Downgrading the kernel via the method saintless (Toni) suggested in following post worked for me:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=760167#760167

Hi, William, Tony

If you like to have Porteus Wheezy2-2-deb-kern-3.12.iso with the previous kernel you can easy do a remaster.

Just use 02-486-kernel.squashfs (rename to .xzm) + vmlinuz1 + initrd1.xz from DebianDog-PorteusDog.iso to boot:
http://www.smokey01.com/saintless/Light-Wheezy/DebianDog-PorteusDog-test.iso
In /opt/bin you will find script 00-update-kernel-486 (or similar name but it starts with 00-...). Click on this script and it will update dpkg database with information for kernel 486. The script will be deleted in 2 seconds, This means the update is OK.
Then remove kernel 3.12 with (this command should work but the name of linux-image-3.12 may be different):
Code:
apt-get purge linux-image-3.12*

Then use remaster-porteus script to remaster.

Toni

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 735
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sat 22 Feb 2014, 13:16    Post subject:  

Hi Tony, William
To make sure the booting problem is because of the newer backports kernel:
Can you please test: Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kern-3.2.0-4-486.iso ?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCDlZZ8K5XzdXZ2dScFhQcGs/edit?usp=sharing
It's exactly the same as Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kern-3.12.iso except for the kernel which is the stable kernel.

Toni, after I made new iso I just see your last message now, thanks for the help Smile

@Tony
Quote:
dhcpcd[2458]:Version 5.64 starting ... Booting with nonetwork option gives no change.

Sorry, the nonetwork option doesn't work, it's now on my TODO list.
EDIT:
Quote:
Why is it trying to connect to router on first boot without a password?

It isn't, it's trying to start the frisbee daemon, which starts dhcpcd (this way wireless will connect when configured, on every reboot)

Fred
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