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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2463
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 03:22    Post subject:  

mcewanw wrote:
Toni, could you explain how iceWM is setup/started on DebianDog. I've been looking but can't find the file you start it from. Also curious how the menus are generated - I can't see where Logout menu details are controlled and what files they call.

Sorry, I know nothing about iceWM and just had time for a quick browse on DebianDog and also the online iceWM documentation.

Hi, William.
IceWM has a file /root/,icewm/startup (home/puppy/.icewm/startup)
This file calls frisbee tray, volumeicon, desktop-drive-icons, desktop wallpapers from Terry and a script that makes /root/Startup folder to execute every link or executable file inside ( like in puppy).

The menus are generated from apt-get installed program called menu.
It creates file for menu in /usr/share/menu Take a look in there and it will be clear.
When I need to add start menu program in section system for example I modify /usr/X11/icewm/menu file.
If I need an icon on the taskbar I modify /usr/x11/icewm/toolbar file.
Never modify /usr/x11/icewm/programs All changes there are generated from menu program and all manual changes are deleted.
If I need to change something in the ICEWM look I change /usr/share/icewm/preferences Ih ntis file you will find information about logout command but it does not point to any command. I also not sure what command calls logout. I guess it calls halt like shutdown and reboot commands in some way but IceWM documentation does not say how exactly.

Sorry I can't give more light on this subject.

Toni

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Last edited by saintless on Mon 03 Feb 2014, 03:27; edited 1 time in total
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 03:26    Post subject: testing Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kernel.iso  

Hi Fred!
Quote:
Fred: Can't you install these and use the remaster script to make new module?
Or maybe it's different on vmware.

It was a joke.
To work in VMware I have in DIR /base/ a module 02-sfs-tools.xzm in which I add everything you need. Remaster is not quite comfortable in a 'sandbox VMware', but it can also be used. But in DIR /modules/ can put any program packed in squashfs-containers or pet-packages. To mount (activate) them, I wrote two scripts: user-modules_3 and puppy-modules (execute scripts load-modules.sh and ppet).
These two ways are consistent ideology FRUGAL and allow you to bypass the restrictions on VMware.
Quote:
Fred: And how's the RAM usage, acceptable I think?

Yes Sir! Ja, Uwe Excellentie! Using memory suits me perfectly!
Quote:
Fred: Plaese send my thanks to sfs, without his workaround I never would have tried to use stable debian kernel.

I already gave him a word of thanks from you and from Toni.

I hope You and Toni will find it possible to combine in one disributive as the ability to download Debian-classic and Porteous-Debian. I think it will be attractive to users.
Thank you again!

Sergey.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2463
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 03:31    Post subject: Re: testing Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kernel.iso  

sklimkin wrote:
I hope You and Toni will find it possible to combine in one disributive as the ability to download Debian-classic and Porteous-Debian. I think it will be attractive to users.


Thank you. Sergey Smile
We already have this option and it will be included in the next DebianDog+PorteusDog.iso
It will have as more size only one initrd file for porteus-boot and very small (few Kb) xzm file with porteus needed changes.

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 03:34    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:

Hi, William.
IceWM has a file /root/,icewm/startup (home/puppy/.icewm/startup)
This file calls frisbee tray, volumeicon, desktop-drive-icons, desktop wallpapers from Terry and a script that makes /root/Startup folder to execute every link or executable file inside ( like in puppy).

The menus are generated from apt-get installed program called menu.
It creates file for menu in /usr/share/menu Take a look in there and it will be clear.
When I need to add start menu program in section system for example I modify /usr/X11/icewm/menu file.


Yes, actually I had found all these parts you mention, but what I couldn't find or understand was where startx actually starts up iceWM. The iceWM talks about xinitrc and Xsession, but I've looked in there and see nothing that actually starts up the window manager!

But thanks for the bit of info about Logout, though it remains a bit of a mystery what iceWM actually calls at that point.

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5031
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 03:35    Post subject:  

Toni; Try this WallPapers.d . I changed all of it`s /root and $USER to $HOME

I tried it and it worked, but I`ve got several copies. I need to clean up.
wallpapers.d.zip
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2463
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 03:41    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Toni; Try this WallPapers.d . I changed all of it`s /root and $USER to $HOME

I tried it and it worked, but I`ve got several copies. I need to clean up.

Thank you, Terry.
I will test and write back the result.

William, IceWM is the only WM and this way by default it maybe not present as word in Xsession or Xinit. But may be I'm wrong.

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2346
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 04:40    Post subject: How icewm actually gets started up in Debian (solved)  

saintless wrote:

William, IceWM is the only WM and this way by default it maybe not present as word in Xsession or Xinit. But may be I'm wrong.


Well, it isn't referred to by word in Xsession, but it has to be referred to in order to be started up. I found out how by reading the scripts. For your info:

The program which gets started up turns out to be /usr/bin/x-session-manager, but that, it turns out, is a symbolic link to /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager, which is a symbolic link to (drum rolls) /usr/bin/icewm-session, which is the one I was looking for...

So how does icewm-session actually then get started? Well, xinit reads /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc, which calls up /etc/X11/Xsession, which sources all the files in /etc/X11/Xsession.d, one of which is 50x11-common_determine-startup, which is the key file which sets variable STARTUP=/usr/bin/x-session-manager, which finally gets executed in Xsession via sourced file 99x11-common_start:

Code:

exec $STARTUP


That is the Debian fallback default mechanism. However, reading these scripts tell me, it would directly set START up to icewm-session, via all of the above, if instead file $HOME/.xsessionrc was created with the singleline "icewm-session" in it (no quotes in that file though). I haven't tried that last part, but I will in a minute...

EDIT: yes, above creation of .xsessionrc worked. That means if I had various window managers installed I could choose between them simply by putting a different wm entry in $HOME/.xsessionrc. There are other ways of doing it also covered in the logic of these above Debian scripts.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2463
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 05:51    Post subject: Re: How icewm actually gets started up in Debian (solved)  

mcewanw wrote:
EDIT: yes, above creation of .xsessionrc worked. That means if I had various window managers installed I could choose between them simply by putting a different wm entry in $HOME/.xsessionrc. There are other ways of doing it also covered in the logic of these above Debian scripts.

Thank for the proper information, William.
IceWM start menu also has option to choose between WM if more than one is installed.
Adding startx icewm or startx openbox in /etc/profile or /etc/profile.d or /etc/rc.local also should work the same way.
I guess xsessionrc file is much better for multiuser distro. it gives option every user account to start different WM.

Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2463
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 06:40    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Toni; Try this WallPapers.d . I changed all of it`s /root and $USER to $HOME

I tried it and it worked, but I`ve got several copies. I need to clean up.

Hi, Terry.
This one works for root but does not work for user. I'm not sure why I get such problems but experimenting more with the previous version gave good result.
The previous wallpapers.d works well if I remove /opt/apps/wallpapers/wallpapers.lst Now I only have /home/puppy/wallpapers.lst and /root/wallpapers.lst and works well after reboot.
I will leave it this way for testing and I will add copy of your new version in a folder in /opt/apps/walppapers just in case if we needed while testing.

Toni
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 771
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 06:48    Post subject:  

Hi Toni

To make things even more complicated Smile :
I've been trying before to make debian kernel work with linux-live-scripts, didn't work then.
But now with the modprobe line it works.
Linux-live-kit website:
http://www.linux-live.org/
It is not as advanced as porteus cheatcodes but from=/... works and saving changes also.
Example grub4dos in case folder "lldeb":

Code:
title lldeb (sda3/lldeb)
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /lldeb/vmlinuz from=/lldeb
  initrd /lldeb/initrd.xz

Module extension is .squashfs.
If all files (including "changes.dat" for save) are in /lldeb directory it should work.
Folder "modules" can be created in /lldeb, extra .squashfs modules wiil be loaded.
Some things need to worked on, e.g. /dev/shm is mounted instead of /run/shm

Maybe this could be useful sometime.

initrd-3.2.0-4-486-linux-live.xz:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCDlZZ8K5WTZqOVM5NGJBRnM/edit?usp=sharing

Fred

Last edited by fredx181 on Mon 03 Feb 2014, 08:49; edited 1 time in total
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 08:01    Post subject:  

Hi All!

There archive 'PuppyExprimo' (Debian squeeze packages based dpup):
http://www.smokey01.com/pemasu/pet_packages-exprimo/
in which a lot of useful packages (sfs and pet), which can be connected to the 'Light-Debian'.

Probably such heavy packs as:
Blender-2.61.sfs - 43 MB
blender-2.64.sfs - 54 MB
LibreOffice-3.5.0_en-US.sfs - 158 MB
google-chrome-25.sfs - 51 MB
scribus-static-1.5.0.sfs - 63 MB
skype-static-2.1.0.81.sfs - 27 MB
stellarium-0.11.2.sfs - 41 MB
virtualbox-4.1.10.sfs - 79 MB
bad to do so "small Linux" , but they are already there.
Prohibit the use of such a package is not possible.
For example, for someone Skype is absolutely necessary.

If you are installing a large program of deb-repository situation may be even more difficult, it's probably a topic for another conversation.

From the beginning until now developers 'Light-Debian' carefully choose those programs that are smaller in size and minimally loaded system. This is one of the key parameters of the distribution. This is one of its main advantages when compared with the standard "Debian out of the box".

So I want to ask the opinion of developers and contributors of a "Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy" on installing and using "heavy software packages and modules".

1. On the one hand, such as installing FireFox + AdobeFlashPlayer = large load on the system as a whole (not to mention the sprawling uncontrollably cache in /.mozilla/firefox/*).
2. On the other hand, such as the light browsers H3V, Dillo, Midori - much less "garbage will be" the system, but they do not allow to play video content (eg movies on youtube site).
3. Can succinctly describe the ideology of 'Light-Debian' and make a list of recommended (tested) programs and a list of deprecated programs. Such a list can be placed in Menu-->Help-->About (ICEWM) or even on Desktop.

Today many read "on-diagonal" even in the case of sensitive information.
Read dozens of pages of this topic can a few.
Therefore Menu section or page 'About', which will also set out in paragraph '3.' already required for distribution.
Apart from the above, it is also an act of respect to the user.
(I hope that my text will be clear after the transfer of participants 'Google-translator').

Sergey.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2463
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 08:55    Post subject:  

Hi, Fred Smile
fredx181 wrote:
To make things even more complicated Smile

Thank you. one more option to load DebianDog is welcome.
I will ask you later again about this option if I can't understand how it works.
I think to make DebianDog+PorteusDog.iso only with vmlinuz-486 and porteus-vmlinuz-486. It does not matter what is the ext of the squashfs. it works with symlink to /live/debian/base and the symlink can be named .xzm

Hi, Sergey.

Terry is working to add menu install option or GUI for Firefox26 from smokeyO1.com site with single click.
I think this is good way to make heavy apps like Skype, Firefox, VirtualBox etc available as smaller versions or sfs modules.
I'm not sure how exactly we will include this options yet. We have much more to do till next official iso is created.
The problem with such menu install items is we have 2Gb space for Light-Squeezy, Porteus-Wheezy, DebianDog, separate kernel modules and this one click menu install applications like Firefox.
The good thing is we can teach the user to create separate sfs modules from DebianDog after installing them with apt-get. We need something like RemasterDog script to be easy to use and clean the sfs as separate module from the main system. I have this on my mind and Fred's RemasterDog script is great base to be modified to do this as separate GUI script.

Still much things to work on and much to consider.

Toni

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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 771
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 09:08    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Quote:
I think to make DebianDog+PorteusDog.iso only with vmlinuz-486 and porteus-vmlinuz-486

What do you mean by "porteus-vmlinuz-486"?
Quote:
We need something like RemasterDog script to be easy to use and clean the sfs as separate module from the main system

If I understand well; You want gui-script for creating module from e.g. /live/cow ?
I think I can make such script.

Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2463
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 09:16    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
Hi Toni
Quote:
I think to make DebianDog+PorteusDog.iso only with vmlinuz-486 and porteus-vmlinuz-486

What do you mean by "porteus-vmlinuz-486"?
Quote:
We need something like RemasterDog script to be easy to use and clean the sfs as separate module from the main system

If I understand well; You want gui-script for creating module from e.g. /live/cow ?
I think I can make such script.

Fred

Sorry, Fred, just a mistake.
I mean porteus-initrd-486 and debian-initrd-486. Not vmlinuz Smile

Thank you! Yes like RemasterDog but using /live/cow as a base. But in order to use separate kernel modules the problem is there will be need from manual editing /var/lib/dpkg status and available. It will be too complicated to automate the process to separate dpkg staus information from the status file in the base module.
If you have time to make RemasterCow script to use /live/cow it will be great. I can ask your help then for further modifications regarding dpkg/status and available files.

As far as I understand /live/cow for porteus is /mnt/live/memory/changes so it should be easy to change such script for porteus version.

Toni
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 771
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014, 09:25    Post subject:  

Hi Toni
Quote:
If you have time to make RemasterCow script to use /live/cow it will be great. I can ask your help then for further modifications regarding dpkg/status and available files.

Yes, I will work on it later today or tomorrow.

Fred
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