I have been making some fixes and discovering newly available upgrades to add to the set of lupus. I attended to the issues of dillo and network_tray mentioned here and elsewhere. I found upgrades for geany, pburn and mtpaint. I do not want to release lupu for the next period without those improvements, so will be building another set of ISO files soon.
The task of adding the updated dillo revealed two problems related to the petget_rewrite package, now resolved.
If there are any further things I should consider adding, please speak up.
Is there any reason that I should not upgrade geany to the 1.23 version, which has recently been made available by s243a and toowoombalinux in another thread?
Richard
Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.7 - Nov., 2017 - Final
What version of 5.2.8.7?
What version of Lucid 5.2.8.7 would best suit my oldish desktop? Hardinfo reports 1G of RAM memory, it doesn't say what type, and shows two 2800MHz Pentium 4 processors (With pae). Not sure of the age, it's second-hand but it had Windows XP on it, possibly 2004?
I have been running 3HD. However, I understood from Playdayz that the only difference between 3HD and "standard" Lucid was a newer kernel. Since there are now multiple kernels available for Lucid ---7 and some are more up-to-date than that in 3HD, does the 3HD designation still mean anything?
Thank you rerwin for keeping this most user-friendly Puppy marching on.
I have been running 3HD. However, I understood from Playdayz that the only difference between 3HD and "standard" Lucid was a newer kernel. Since there are now multiple kernels available for Lucid ---7 and some are more up-to-date than that in 3HD, does the 3HD designation still mean anything?
Thank you rerwin for keeping this most user-friendly Puppy marching on.
Snail,
With that computer hardware any version would probably work OK.
That is basically what I have.
3HD did seem to give the best support, at the time it was offered, but that was before Lupusuper versions were developed.
Now It is suggested, the best option is to use one of the lupusuper versions, if your hardware is not really old.
Not trying to suggest you stop using Lucid, it is too good a version of Puppy!!!!!
However, that computer should be able to handle the newest Puppy versions.
Tahrpup 6.0.3
Slacko 5.7
Precise 5.7.1
Etc.....
With that computer hardware any version would probably work OK.
That is basically what I have.
3HD did seem to give the best support, at the time it was offered, but that was before Lupusuper versions were developed.
Now It is suggested, the best option is to use one of the lupusuper versions, if your hardware is not really old.
Not trying to suggest you stop using Lucid, it is too good a version of Puppy!!!!!
However, that computer should be able to handle the newest Puppy versions.
Tahrpup 6.0.3
Slacko 5.7
Precise 5.7.1
Etc.....
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
1++++++Thank you rerwin for keeping this most user-friendly Puppy marching on.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
-
RetroTechGuy
- Posts: 2947
- Joined: Tue 15 Dec 2009, 17:20
- Location: USA
Lupusuper ROCKS!... Thanks Rerwin (and everyone else helping maintain it! I really like the breadth of Debian compatibility)bigpup wrote:Now It is suggested, the best option is to use one of the lupusuper versions, if your hardware is not really old.
Not trying to suggest you stop using Lucid, it is too good a version of Puppy!!!!!
As for "too old"... The super runs on my Dell Latitude C640 (circa 2002)... That's pretty darn old for a laptop... I would recommend that folks try this first, before digging back into the older retros and whatnot...
LupuMini runs on my Compaq Armada (I bought it old and used in 2001 -- Win98 laptop)... I doubt that many are trying to run much that is older than that... In the 4.x family, it needed Retro versions...
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Lupusuper4 Boots to Blank screen
I downloaded the file lupusuper4-5.2.8.7-k3.9.9-20150520.iso, mounted it and copied initrid.gz, vmlinuz and sulu_004.sfs to /sda5/Lupu_S4 on the HP Compaq desktop I described a couple of posts ago. The MD5s of the iso and the three copied files all check OK. I added the stanza below to my existing menu.lst:
title Lupusuper4 nosave
kernel (hd0,4)/Lupu_S4/vmlinuz pfix=ram
initrd (hd0,4)/Lupu_S4/initrd.gz
I also have a stanza without pfix=ram. Either stanza gives the same result. The sulu sfs is found and all proceeds swimingly at first. I see the line saying something like :Recognizing media .. Optical input - it flashes very quickly. In the case of 3HD, a single further line flashes far too quickly for me to read and then the desktop appears almost instantly. With Super4, I get about 3 or 4 lines flashing past and then a blank screen and a totally unresponsive system. I have to press the power button for quite a while to get out. I have tried waiting several minutes to see if it will clear itself but no go.
I can't find a user-friendly way to find out info about the graphics but I copied this from etc/X11/xorg.conf:
VendorName "Intel Corporation"
BoardName "82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller"
BusID "PCI:0:2:0"
Is there anything useful I can try and report on?
The -----6 version of 3HD seems to work mostly OK on this machine but I was wanting to try the latest suitable Lucid Puppy on it.
title Lupusuper4 nosave
kernel (hd0,4)/Lupu_S4/vmlinuz pfix=ram
initrd (hd0,4)/Lupu_S4/initrd.gz
I also have a stanza without pfix=ram. Either stanza gives the same result. The sulu sfs is found and all proceeds swimingly at first. I see the line saying something like :Recognizing media .. Optical input - it flashes very quickly. In the case of 3HD, a single further line flashes far too quickly for me to read and then the desktop appears almost instantly. With Super4, I get about 3 or 4 lines flashing past and then a blank screen and a totally unresponsive system. I have to press the power button for quite a while to get out. I have tried waiting several minutes to see if it will clear itself but no go.
I can't find a user-friendly way to find out info about the graphics but I copied this from etc/X11/xorg.conf:
VendorName "Intel Corporation"
BoardName "82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller"
BusID "PCI:0:2:0"
Is there anything useful I can try and report on?
The -----6 version of 3HD seems to work mostly OK on this machine but I was wanting to try the latest suitable Lucid Puppy on it.
Snail,
Thanks for trying the "supers". First, add "nomodeset" to your boot parameters. If that does not work, try booting with "pfix=nox" to be sure you can get that far.
If nomodeset works, run at a command line: modeset0
It will create a rule that applies only to your type of PC. Then post the rule file so others can benefit.
If all that fails, try the same things but with lupusuper2. Since each kernel has a different version of the graphics kernel module (driver), you might see some difference in behavior.
R
Thanks for trying the "supers". First, add "nomodeset" to your boot parameters. If that does not work, try booting with "pfix=nox" to be sure you can get that far.
If nomodeset works, run at a command line: modeset0
It will create a rule that applies only to your type of PC. Then post the rule file so others can benefit.
If all that fails, try the same things but with lupusuper2. Since each kernel has a different version of the graphics kernel module (driver), you might see some difference in behavior.
R
No modeset syntax?
rerwin, I edited the grub kernel line to:
kernel (hd0,4)/Lupu_S4/vmlinuz pfix=ram,nomodeset
This made no difference, same frozen, although running, system with a blank screen.
Have I got the syntax right?
kernel (hd0,4)/Lupu_S4/vmlinuz pfix=ram,nomodeset
This made no difference, same frozen, although running, system with a blank screen.
Have I got the syntax right?
Snail,
Not quite. "nomodeset" is not a pfix sub-option. The correct syntax would be:Change the comma to a space.
R
Not quite. "nomodeset" is not a pfix sub-option. The correct syntax would be:
Code: Select all
kernel (hd0,4)/Lupu_S4/vmlinuz pfix=ram nomodesetR
LupuSuper booting
Thanks for the syntax rerwin, dumb of me!
Lupersuper 1 and 2 both boot to the desktop fine without nomodeset being needed. I haven't tested them with nomodeset, do you still want me to do that? If you do, and I run modeset0, where do I find the rule to post?
Lupusuper3 fails at the same point as super4. Whereas super4 just hangs and blanks, super3 causes my HP1730 monitor to announce that is going to sleep and then hangs. Nomodeset, correctly syntaxed, makes no difference to either of them, so obviously I can't run modeset0.
Lupersuper 1 and 2 both boot to the desktop fine without nomodeset being needed. I haven't tested them with nomodeset, do you still want me to do that? If you do, and I run modeset0, where do I find the rule to post?
Lupusuper3 fails at the same point as super4. Whereas super4 just hangs and blanks, super3 causes my HP1730 monitor to announce that is going to sleep and then hangs. Nomodeset, correctly syntaxed, makes no difference to either of them, so obviously I can't run modeset0.
Nox
Using pfix=ram,nox, both super3 and super4 get to the keyboard chooser dialogue box and then into the command prompt. The nomodset parameter doesn't make any difference at all. From there, the command modeset0 seems to be accepted by the shell, at least I don't get the 'command not found" message, but I get no output, just a quick return to the shell prompt. I don't have any bash skills, so I'll need help if you want further diagnostics quickly.
Snail,
I installed sulu3 and sulu4 in my netbook to see what you are facing. I get similar results as yours. I found a workaround for sulu3 but have not yet found one for sulu4.
For sulu3, boot with pfix=ram,nox. At the command prompt, enter "xorgwizard" and use it to select the "vesa" driver button. Set your resolution then back at the command prompt, enter "xwin" (without the quotes, of course). That got me to the desktop. Then reboot and make a pupsave, which will then boot without needing the "pfix=nox".
With sulu4, though, xorgwizard just returns without doing anything, like modeset0 does.
A few minutes later: After entering xorgwizard and having it merely return with a "#" prompt, I entered "reboot" and was allowed to create a pupsave, even though I had not gotten to the desktop. When I rebooted to that pupsave with pfix=nox and then entered "xorgwizard" at the command prompt, that time it worked! So, I was "in business"!
I have another experiment to try, which may take awhile. I will get the Intel Xorg driver from the puppies where I got the kernels for sulus 3&4 and try substituting them. That would test my suspicion that it may have changed from kernel to kernel.
Richard
I installed sulu3 and sulu4 in my netbook to see what you are facing. I get similar results as yours. I found a workaround for sulu3 but have not yet found one for sulu4.
For sulu3, boot with pfix=ram,nox. At the command prompt, enter "xorgwizard" and use it to select the "vesa" driver button. Set your resolution then back at the command prompt, enter "xwin" (without the quotes, of course). That got me to the desktop. Then reboot and make a pupsave, which will then boot without needing the "pfix=nox".
With sulu4, though, xorgwizard just returns without doing anything, like modeset0 does.
A few minutes later: After entering xorgwizard and having it merely return with a "#" prompt, I entered "reboot" and was allowed to create a pupsave, even though I had not gotten to the desktop. When I rebooted to that pupsave with pfix=nox and then entered "xorgwizard" at the command prompt, that time it worked! So, I was "in business"!
I have another experiment to try, which may take awhile. I will get the Intel Xorg driver from the puppies where I got the kernels for sulus 3&4 and try substituting them. That would test my suspicion that it may have changed from kernel to kernel.
Richard
xorgwizard doesn't work here
Hi rerwin,
On this desktop, xorgwizard behaves the same on super3 and super4, that is as you describe for super4.
xwin behaves on both systems as you would probably expect, it does something at least but the result is the same as booting without nox.
I am happy to use super 1 or 2, so don't bust a gut on my behalf. I'm testing to try and be helpful, as far as I am capable.
On this desktop, xorgwizard behaves the same on super3 and super4, that is as you describe for super4.
xwin behaves on both systems as you would probably expect, it does something at least but the result is the same as booting without nox.
I am happy to use super 1 or 2, so don't bust a gut on my behalf. I'm testing to try and be helpful, as far as I am capable.
That worked
Hi rerwin,
Your edit and my last post crossed over.
The procedure that you described in your edit worked, for both super3 and super4. Note that it was necessary for super3 on this desktop, whereas it was necessary only for super4 in your case.
I have no need for the analogue modem drivers. OTOH, Super2 has a newer kernel than super1. Which do you recommend?
Second thought, what do I really loose by running with vesa? Maybe super4 will be OK?
Your edit and my last post crossed over.
The procedure that you described in your edit worked, for both super3 and super4. Note that it was necessary for super3 on this desktop, whereas it was necessary only for super4 in your case.
I have no need for the analogue modem drivers. OTOH, Super2 has a newer kernel than super1. Which do you recommend?
Second thought, what do I really loose by running with vesa? Maybe super4 will be OK?
Snail,
Unless you have a need that is met only by the kernels of sulu3 or sulu4, I recommend using sulu2. That is because sulu2 is what I am maintaining most closely. Since I use it every day, I am more likely to find any problems or deficiencies there, and to fix them. I also make sure any changes work in lupu itself. I consider both of those as the "base" Lucid Pup.
The other variants are "along for the ride" but get no monitoring by me. I depend solely on others to report any problems with them. Of course, they benefit from any fixes I make, so are not neglected. But problems unique to the variants may get missed.
Remember that the kernels newer than sulu2's may have some incompatibilities with the lupu infrastructure that I would not catch. That's why I consider lupu and sulu2 to be the most trustworthy of the bunch.
All that said, I have received no reports of problems with sulus 3 & 4. Of the other variants, sulu4 has the highest download count (in the 20141203 set). But the three versions of sulu2 (main, plus, libre) total about twice the number as sulu4, although that includes people who downloaded more than one of the sulu2s, making the comparison meaningless.
R
Unless you have a need that is met only by the kernels of sulu3 or sulu4, I recommend using sulu2. That is because sulu2 is what I am maintaining most closely. Since I use it every day, I am more likely to find any problems or deficiencies there, and to fix them. I also make sure any changes work in lupu itself. I consider both of those as the "base" Lucid Pup.
The other variants are "along for the ride" but get no monitoring by me. I depend solely on others to report any problems with them. Of course, they benefit from any fixes I make, so are not neglected. But problems unique to the variants may get missed.
Remember that the kernels newer than sulu2's may have some incompatibilities with the lupu infrastructure that I would not catch. That's why I consider lupu and sulu2 to be the most trustworthy of the bunch.
All that said, I have received no reports of problems with sulus 3 & 4. Of the other variants, sulu4 has the highest download count (in the 20141203 set). But the three versions of sulu2 (main, plus, libre) total about twice the number as sulu4, although that includes people who downloaded more than one of the sulu2s, making the comparison meaningless.
R
From Lupu news web page->help
http://diddywahdiddy.net/LupuNews/index4.html
[quote]Problem starting Lucid Puppy. Lucid Puppy (Lupu) will boot to a graphical screen in almost all cases and from that screen you can make adjustments if they are needed or wanted. If it does not boot to a graphical screen, it might boot to a “prompt.
http://diddywahdiddy.net/LupuNews/index4.html
[quote]Problem starting Lucid Puppy. Lucid Puppy (Lupu) will boot to a graphical screen in almost all cases and from that screen you can make adjustments if they are needed or wanted. If it does not boot to a graphical screen, it might boot to a “prompt.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
well I found the newer 3 kernels seem to have weird problems on pentium 3 such as not finding the main sfs even when seen...since lucid supports P3 nicely would be a shame to lose that.
Too many experimental kernels spoil the puppy broth especially if hardware gets dropped...after all kernel drivers can be built for a range of kernels.
No vesa = no 2d accelerations (poor full screen video)
no 3d acceleration (games unplayable)
usually sluggish video for such as browsers.
For general office type work its ok and if your cpu can overcome the losses since it has to do all the work.
mike
Too many experimental kernels spoil the puppy broth especially if hardware gets dropped...after all kernel drivers can be built for a range of kernels.
No vesa = no 2d accelerations (poor full screen video)
no 3d acceleration (games unplayable)
usually sluggish video for such as browsers.
For general office type work its ok and if your cpu can overcome the losses since it has to do all the work.
mike
Depository Problems
I'm just starting to use Super2. Ethernet and display are fine. However, I when I selected Seamonkey as a browser from the browser chooser screen, several Seamonkey versions were offered and I selected the newest but the download failed with the message that the file wasn't found. I've tried this twice each time with the same result. Version 2.10 installed OK. On first use of Seamonkey, I was offered a Modern version add-on. I accepted but found that it was just a theme that I didn't like. Contrary to what is stated in the offer panel, it is impossible to disable this add-on in the add-on manager, so I had to reinstall Seamonkey.
The Seamonkey pet doesn't modify the desktop mail icon to point to Seamonkey, surely this would make sense? I had to manually edit defaultemail.
SFSGET in quickpet continues to offer a version of Skype that hasn't been supported by Skype's servers for yonks. Sorry to play the nit-picker but this is not very user-friendly. Playdayz's great efforts to achieve maximum noob-user friendliness is, I surmise, one of the major reasons that many people still stay with Lucid, rather than supporting more recent Pups. It would be a pity if the modernization of Lucid didn't include fixing this issue.
There is a Skype 4.3 sfs compiled for Lucid, but I'm not sure if it works with the later kernels. There was also a problem with the later Skypes not working well with mics that are part of USB webcams. Has anyone managed to get Skype working with the newer Lucids and if so how? EDIT Oscartalks has made a Skype plus apulse sfs for Lucid, I'll check it out.
The Seamonkey pet doesn't modify the desktop mail icon to point to Seamonkey, surely this would make sense? I had to manually edit defaultemail.
SFSGET in quickpet continues to offer a version of Skype that hasn't been supported by Skype's servers for yonks. Sorry to play the nit-picker but this is not very user-friendly. Playdayz's great efforts to achieve maximum noob-user friendliness is, I surmise, one of the major reasons that many people still stay with Lucid, rather than supporting more recent Pups. It would be a pity if the modernization of Lucid didn't include fixing this issue.
There is a Skype 4.3 sfs compiled for Lucid, but I'm not sure if it works with the later kernels. There was also a problem with the later Skypes not working well with mics that are part of USB webcams. Has anyone managed to get Skype working with the newer Lucids and if so how? EDIT Oscartalks has made a Skype plus apulse sfs for Lucid, I'll check it out.
Snail,
Thanks for reporting your experience getting started with lupusuper2. I am not sure what to do about the quickpet issues you raise, because I do not have access to the repos that contain the optional pets.
Your handling of the seamonkey installation is what I have concluded as the way to get started. Skip the first version offered and use 2.10. I think it is the last to support converting a 1.x version of the user's files (including email), so is the best to have offered. There is no need to offer an newer version, since it will always be necessary to let it upgrade itself to stay current.
My attempt to work around the "locked" repo is to offer pets and sfs files at my Mediafire site where the ISO files reside. If anyone wants to manage an alternate repo, I can update quickpet to use it. But I am not ready to get into the business of managing a repo.
Regarding changing the defaultemail to seamonkey, I am not sure how to automate that. Playdayz long ago decided to make sylpheed the default. Maybe I need an intermediary script as the default that uses seamonkey if its email component is installed and sylpheed is not already activated. Something for me to contemplate.
Thanks for reporting your experience getting started with lupusuper2. I am not sure what to do about the quickpet issues you raise, because I do not have access to the repos that contain the optional pets.
Your handling of the seamonkey installation is what I have concluded as the way to get started. Skip the first version offered and use 2.10. I think it is the last to support converting a 1.x version of the user's files (including email), so is the best to have offered. There is no need to offer an newer version, since it will always be necessary to let it upgrade itself to stay current.
My attempt to work around the "locked" repo is to offer pets and sfs files at my Mediafire site where the ISO files reside. If anyone wants to manage an alternate repo, I can update quickpet to use it. But I am not ready to get into the business of managing a repo.
Regarding changing the defaultemail to seamonkey, I am not sure how to automate that. Playdayz long ago decided to make sylpheed the default. Maybe I need an intermediary script as the default that uses seamonkey if its email component is installed and sylpheed is not already activated. Something for me to contemplate.