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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.6!
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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darry1966

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 475
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 16 Mar 2014, 19:00    Post_subject:  

This sums it up many people still use Lucid for old hardware and slightly newer
Great Quote from Mikeb from an earlier post.
PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 07:48 Post subject: Reply with quote
Great to see some down to earth practical stuff going on here.

Some form of long term stable is welcome and basing it on probably one of the best puppy varients around thats popular with good reason is an excellent choice.

Please do keep the version number as a constant too... puppy has suffered version madness along with the rest of the software world recently and the subsequent confusion and almost religious fevour towards such is hardly constuctive.
There would not even be a need for distrospecs if we did not have several entirely different pups all with overlapping version numbers.

Take something that works well and update as needed.... the rate of new hardware seems to have slowed down and drivers can be built for the existing kernels(s) anyway and I find the Lucid software base to be new enough for current reasonable software.
A similar approach with older distros keeps them useful for years...I am still in lenny/slax6/puppy 4 land for day to day usage.

Hope you enjoy the experience rerwin and thanks for stepping in,
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Sun 16 Mar 2014, 19:24    Post_subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
My installation of lupuplus 528.5 has gone terribly wrong. Suddenly, it can't find my Seamonkey profile, so Seamonkey won't run. Firefox won't let me set the check box to save passwords, my 2fs file has balooned to almost 6GB, where last time I checked it was under 2GB, and I can't seem to write from one hard drive to the other.

I would suspect a corrupted save file.
fsck the save file.


tried that several times at bootup
Code:
puppy pfix=fsck


It made no difference.

Quote:
Could be partition filesystem corruption. Check it also.


Don't think so. Because when I found and booted with a (much) older 2fs that has most of my pets installed (but unfortunately doesn't have some passwords I didn't save except in Seamonkey), everything worked normally again. I have no idea how the save file ever go above 1GB, let alone to 6GB. But it definitely contributes to my lack of more current backups. Backing up a 1.4GB 2fs is a slow process, never mind one four times that size.

BTW - one used to be able to display all of the passwords for all of the sites at once, and so make a screensave to archive them. Now Seamonkey will only display one site's passwords at a time. This is what caused my biggest problem. And it's not the first time.

PS. still would like an answer as to whether I can use a 2fs file from lupuplus 5.28.5 in the .6 version. I must confess the explanation for the new "old" format didn't clarify anything for me.

Another question I have is whether I can install to usbflash directly from the 5.28.6 super iso while running 5.28.5? If so, any tips would be helpful.

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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014, 11:39    Post_subject: lupu 5.2.8.6 and 528-005 pupsave files  

otropogo wrote:
PS. still would like an answer as to whether I can use a 2fs file from lupuplus 5.28.5 in the .6 version. I must confess the explanation for the new "old" format didn't clarify anything for me.
Yes. My intent for 5.2.8.6 is that it should handle pupsaves starting with those from 528-002. (I am not sure about the "old format". But I know that pre-528 pupsaves will not work with 528.)

Remember, though, that any updates you have made to the puppy infrastructure may override improvements in 5.2.8.6, causing trouble. On first use of 5.2.8.6 with an existing pupsave, a limited check is made for installed packages that have been superseded by newer packages. But the checking is based on package names and versions. Packages with nonstandard name formats may not be detected.

Although it sounds tedious, you can look for conflicts by comparing the pup_rw layer to the pup_ro2 layer in /initrd. Generally, if you see differences in scripts. the pup_rw copy should probably be deleted, via /initrd/pup_rw/... The command I would use to find the conflicts is:
    diff -r /initrd/pup_ro2 /initrd/pup_rw | grep '^diff' | cut -f 4 -d ' ' | cut -f 4- -d / > /tmp/conflicts-pup_ro2-pup_rw.txt
That will produce a list of file paths that differ. The ones in "usr/" are the main ones that may need to be deleted from pup_rw. The "root/" and "etc/" files probably should be retained, although there may be exceptions that can be addressed individually. (You can post or PM to me the list for assessment.)

This will be a good test of my intent. Just be sure your pupsave file is good, in that it runs with 528-005. This will not solve your seamonkey or gigantic pupsave issues.
Richard
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otropogo


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PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 02:19    Post_subject: Re: lupu 5.2.8.6 and 528-005 pupsave files  

rerwin wrote:
otropogo wrote:
PS. still would like an answer as to whether I can use a 2fs file from lupuplus 5.28.5 in the .6 version. I must confess the explanation for the new "old" format didn't clarify anything for me.
Yes. My intent for 5.2.8.6 is that it should handle pupsaves starting with those from 528-002. (I am not sure about the "old format". But I know that pre-528 pupsaves will not work with 528.)

Remember, though, that any updates you have made to the puppy infrastructure may override improvements in 5.2.8.6, causing trouble. On first use of 5.2.8.6 with an existing pupsave, a limited check is made for installed packages that have been superseded by newer packages. But the checking is based on package names and versions. Packages with nonstandard name formats may not be detected.

Although it sounds tedious, you can look for conflicts by comparing the pup_rw layer to the pup_ro2 layer in /initrd. Generally, if you see differences in scripts. the pup_rw copy should probably be deleted, via /initrd/pup_rw/... The command I would use to find the conflicts is:
    diff -r /initrd/pup_ro2 /initrd/pup_rw | grep '^diff' | cut -f 4 -d ' ' | cut -f 4- -d / > /tmp/conflicts-pup_ro2-pup_rw.txt
That will produce a list of file paths that differ. The ones in "usr/" are the main ones that may need to be deleted from pup_rw. The "root/" and "etc/" files probably should be retained, although there may be exceptions that can be addressed individually. (You can post or PM to me the list for assessment.)

This will be a good test of my intent. Just be sure your pupsave file is good, in that it runs with 528-005. This will not solve your seamonkey or gigantic pupsave issues.
Richard


Thanks Richard,

That's good news. Really the only elements I need to bring with me in the 2fs are xfprot, ufraw, and rawstudio. xfprot is the key one, because I haven't been able to find another virus scanner I can run in Puppy.

One thing that would be nice is for 528-6 to be set up to run under the UEFI bios when and if needed, as Knoppix is. After installing Knoppix, either to a liveDVD or usbflash, one can boot it as is on a UEFI BIOS so long as the boot security setting has been disabled.

Is that possible with 528-6, or if not, could you add that functionality, or advise me how to do it?

I'm also not clear whether 528-6 will simply boot a lupu-save.2fs file, or that file must first be renamed for it to be recognized?

Also, is there a way to install 528-6 directly to a usbflash card from the iso itself, or does it have to be burned to a CD first?

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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 12:31    Post_subject: Re: lupu 5.2.8.6 and 528-005 pupsave files  

otropogo wrote:
One thing that would be nice is for 528-6 to be set up to run under the UEFI bios when and if needed, as Knoppix is. After installing Knoppix, either to a liveDVD or usbflash, one can boot it as is on a UEFI BIOS so long as the boot security setting has been disabled.

Is that possible with 528-6, or if not, could you add that functionality, or advise me how to do it?
I would be willing to attempt adding that if I knew how to do it. Could you dig around to find postings on it, to give me a starting point?
Quote:
I'm also not clear whether 528-6 will simply boot a lupu-save.2fs file, or that file must first be renamed for it to be recognized?
Both. The standard "lupus" expect the same pupsave name as always. For the "super lupus" you need to change the name from "lupusave" to "sulusave". I have done the latter on my day-to-day PC and have no trouble running lupusuper2 (my preferred variant of lucid pup).
Quote:
Also, is there a way to install 528-6 directly to a usbflash card from the iso itself, or does it have to be burned to a CD first?
I am afraid I do not know anything about setting up puppy on a flash medium, so should not try to advise you. However, I would like to know how to set one up but just have not been able to get to it, given my obsessions with lupu and frisbee. Any help you can provide would be welcome.
Richard
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otropogo


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 01:19    Post_subject: Re: lupu 5.2.8.6 and 528-005 pupsave files  

rerwin wrote:
otropogo wrote:
One thing that would be nice is for 528-6 to be set up to run under the UEFI bios when and if needed, as Knoppix is. After installing Knoppix, either to a liveDVD or usbflash, one can boot it as is on a UEFI BIOS so long as the boot security setting has been disabled.

Is that possible with 528-6, or if not, could you add that functionality, or advise me how to do it?
I would be willing to attempt adding that if I knew how to do it. Could you dig around to find postings on it, to give me a starting point?
Quote:
I'm also not clear whether 528-6 will simply boot a lupu-save.2fs file, or that file must first be renamed for it to be recognized?
Both. The standard "lupus" expect the same pupsave name as always. For the "super lupus" you need to change the name from "lupusave" to "sulusave". I have done the latter on my day-to-day PC and have no trouble running lupusuper2 (my preferred variant of lucid pup).
Quote:
Also, is there a way to install 528-6 directly to a usbflash card from the iso itself, or does it have to be burned to a CD first?
I am afraid I do not know anything about setting up puppy on a flash medium, so should not try to advise you. However, I would like to know how to set one up but just have not been able to get to it, given my obsessions with lupu and frisbee. Any help you can provide would be welcome.
Richard


Will try to get you the instructions. I've found some linux stuff on UEFI boots some months ago when I got my new laptop, but haven't looked at the material or followed up since, so it will take me some time to find my way back. Probably a week or three.

Installing to USB flash is something I've done several times with lupu. In fact, I always boot from flash media, using a 2fs file on the system's hard drive. But I havent had to set this up in many, many months. I tried to do it for Slacko last week, and it failed. I think the issue is incompatible procedures in the two routes - "install to USBflash" and Universal installer.

The setup I have now boots from an unpartititioned fat32 CF card. I believe you set this up with the universal installer without any reformating. The tricky part is in the wording of the linux.cfg file. This is where slacko went off the tracks, because it doesn't give any boot options at startup. I hope you haven't done away with the f2 and f3 options at the boot prompt, because this is essential to quick recovery if something is wrong in the config file. You can just put the proper commands in the command line.

If you're going to boot from a save file on your hard drive, then it's essential that you have your 528.6 sfs file together with initrd.gz and possibly vmlinuz
(not sure about this, but I see i'ts on the hdd) in a folder in the root directory named something like pupsave.

I also keep a minimalist 2fs file on the boot media itself, for recovery if there's an issue with the hdd. Mine has to be small because I'm booting from a 256MB CF card.

Playing with the linux.cfg file can be tricky. The way the various commands for paths work aren't properly documented, although I took a stab at it a while back, trying to figure out what would happen. If in doubt, keep it simple with the line:
Code:

append initrd=initrd.gz pmedia=atahd
(to boot a 2fs on the hdd)

The normal command in a usbflash install is:
Code:

pmedia=usbflash


You can get fancy by specifying the drive, and even the folder (if you don't want to list all of your 2fs files), but this is where you can go off the rails too, and fail to boot at all.

There may well be errors in what I've written above, as it's mostly from ancient memory.

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otropogo


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 17:56    Post_subject: USBflash installation , gparted, broken in sulu_001  

Sorry to report, after several hours of trying, that something is very broken in superlupu's Universal Installer and USBFlash install, both of which I've used successfully in lupu5528_5

Here's what happens:

I boot from the LiveCD with or without an existing 2fs file, and try first Install to USBflash then the USBflash install in the Universal Installer tab. Both are on the Setup menu.

I have two flash cards attached to the system, and Pmount sees both, and can mount them. And the system can write to them.

However, Gparted can't see either one. Both flash installers require Gparted to run - which is not required in 528-5, and gparted reports a single unpartitioned flash drive "sdg", WHICH DOESN'T EXIST.

The two flash cards that are attached, an unpartitioned 256MB CF card, from which I've bootted 528-5 for the last six months at least, and a 1GB SD card. Both have enough room on them to install sulu. Whether they're mounted or unmounted, they're not shown in either installer. When I run Gparted separately, it shows the drive numbers for the Generic USB Reader, but when I click on the numbers given by Pmount, Gparted reports "no devices detected".

The other weird thing is that on the desktop, the 256MB CF card is represented by a blue folder with a gear on its side, while the 1GB SD card is depicted by an FD icon.

another disturbing thing is that when asked to show all drives Partview gives an NTFS warning popup saying that the NTFS-3G driver was unable to mount the partition. And so both of my hard drives are mounted read only.

This happened after I uninstalled the driver from 2012, which worked, following the remastering instructions.


Also, Partview only shows the SD drive, not the CF256 flash drive, which isn't NTFS, but vfat.

The cursor over the icons for the two hard drives, shows exactly the same size for both, which is way off. One should be a third of the size of the other. So now I'm worried that my drives may have been corrupted by this experiment. I'm afraid I have to bail out!

Update: Have spent several more hours with sulu_001 now, and the results are disappointing.

Happily, both of my ntfs drives mount without problems or warnings from partview in 528-5. And I can write to both In sulu I could write to one, but not the other, although both are ntfs. I say "could" because after the initial boot with the old 2fs file, I can no longer boot sulu at all, not even with the pfix=ram code. The boot process hangs at various points. I tried a pfix=clean, and after that the system hung with the line "loading kernel modules" (which it had done at least once before the clean)

The screens in Universal Installer and USBflash install are quite different in sulu than in 528-5, the latter don't require gparted, and go through the installation process without incident. But of course, you can't do a flash install of sulu while running 528-5 (I tried). One could still get around this by using a third party usb installer, or even by doing the whole process manually, but that wouldn't solve the other problems:

There is evidently a problem with the new ntfs-3g driver. The only question is whether it's corrupted or broken as bundled, or whether the fault lies with the puppy package manager not properly uninstalling the previous version.

Either way, it doesn't look as though using an existing 2fs file from lupu528.5 is viable, which means all my Seamonkey passwords have to be re-entered manually, and compatible pets for xfprot, ufraw, and rawstudio have to be found.

Even more troubling is the apparent corruption of the sulu sfs file. I used a brand-new (shrink-wrapped) CD-RW for the LiveCD, and burned using burniso2cd in non-mulitsession mode. It booted fine the first and second time (the first time I didn't let it boot the renamed 2fs file, the second time I did.). The third time (after removing the old ntfs-wg driver, and lucid and pburn updates as suggested) it booted into the desktop, showing my wallpaper, and then froze. Since then, in more than a dozen reboots, mostly with pfix=ram or ram,nox, it can't get through the boot process, even to the command line.

I don't understand how this could happen. I checked the md5sum before burning the CD, and I verified the burn successfully. The CD was entered directly from its jacket into the burner, and hasn't even been out of the burner tray yet since sulu was written to it. So how could it be corrupted?

No more time for this, I'm afraid.

Hope this helps someone else. For me it's been a dead loss of time so far, and I can't afford any more.

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otropogo


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 21:04    Post_subject: Sulu Packet Manager malfunction?  

I couldn't resist one more test of sulu, and so tried booting from the LiveCD in my ancient Compaq Millenium.

It booted to a working desktop without need of xorg wizard. So clearly there's nothing wrong with the download or the burn.

After looking without success for an xfprot pet, I noticed one can also access the usbflash installers from the Packet manager, and tried the universal installer, which ran without problems until I got to creating the 32MB sulusave 2fs, at which point it seems to have hung the system.

This is all strictly for testing purposes, as I don't think I can find a way to make the BIOS (which is on a floppy disk somewhere...) boot from USB anyway. But I wanted to see whether I could boot my newer desktop with the flash card and its 2fs file.

Meanwhile I thought of looking at the lupusave file that had been renamed and remastered (supposedly) by Packet Manager to remove the older versions of pburn, lucid, and ntfs-3g.

Logically, it should have a different byte count than the original lupusave. But surprise, surprise, the byte counts of the two files are identical.

My conclusion - packet manager doesn't remove anything from the 2fs files (which might explain why mine had grown to 6GB), and maybe this explains why the ntfs-3g doesn't work.

So now I'm going to crash my Compaq to see whether I can boot the Intel off the new usbflash install. But first, I''ll rename the sulu sfs file and the sulu 2fs file. How the former could have gotten corrupted is still a mystery to me, but that's the only explanation I can find for the repeated boot failures when booting from a CD that works fine by itself.

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otropogo


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 22:44    Post_subject: more issues with sulu_001  

I took the installation to SD flash from the Compaq and tried booting from it on the Intel. This failed with the following error message:

Quote:
You must have r/w access to the filesystem or be root


I then rebooted with the LiveCD and tried to do a new USB install on the same SD drive using Universal Installer. But it responded with :

Quote:
No USB interface on this system But you can save to floppy disk


There was no option to save to floppy disk (and I don't have one installed), so I tried the internal flash drive option, and that worked, sort of.

When I rebooted with the flash drive, it didn't work.

I then tried booting from the CD and a fresh copy of the renamed lupusave, and this time it crashed before the desktop loaded, After that, nothing worked.

I think I've exhausted all the possibilities. I had thought that somehow the sulu_001.sfs file on the hdd had gotten corrupted by the attempted remastering of the 2fs file, but all of the sfs and 2fs files (three of each) are still at exactly the same byte count. so the whole thing remains a mystery.

It's 9pm, and I have to take a break to eat and sleep, and hopefully forget this whole mess.

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nooby

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PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar 2014, 01:46    Post_subject:  

I would love to boot new vitalized Lupu and maybe
could work around the collusion from having .mozilla
and .cache and Firefox symlinked from the HD
.

Now the new Mozilla and the new Firefox would compete
on who is in charge.

The workaround would be to dedicate on Computer to
the Symlink and let the other two be independent by Hardware
isolation )

Are there any other way to isolate then than using such brute force ways?

What about the Long Term Support LTS for Ubuntu we use in Lupu?
Could be three to five years or what? Such can be vital to consider too

Third thing is that Slacko has a much less supported community.

Should I guess the user base for Lucide Ubuntu is 3 to 10 times bigger?
Better chance if somebody knowing things why the Slackware
community give the impression they want you to solve things.

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rerwin


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PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar 2014, 11:27    Post_subject:  

otropogo,
Sorry to see you having so much trouble with sulu1. Although it sounds lame, sulu1 is the "super luci" puppy created by playdayz. I have simply retained what he produced but with the added packages. Sulus2-5 are the ones radky and I created ourselves, replacing lupu's lib/modules/* and lib/firmware directories with those from other kernels. So, I am at a loss to help with sulu1.

However, regarding gparted, we are forced to retain the version already in 528-005 because of too many changes and new dependencies in the more recent versions.

You seem to have stumbled upon some incompatibilities in sulu1. We need to rule those out. Please work with lupu-5.2.8.6, which is the most "conservative" variant of 5.2.8.6. When you talk about the various workarounds or "fixes", you lose me. Once/if you you get that working, we can progress to sulu2 (for which I can take responsibility).

Another approach you could try if you insist on using sulu1 is to try playdayz's last version of sulu, here:
http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/superluci-005.iso

That would eliminate the effects of my changes.
Richard
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otropogo


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PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar 2014, 15:50    Post_subject:  

rerwin wrote:
otropogo,
Sorry to see you having so much trouble with sulu1. Although it sounds lame, sulu1 is the "super luci" puppy created by playdayz. I have simply retained what he produced but with the added packages. Sulus2-5 are the ones radky and I created ourselves, replacing lupu's lib/modules/* and lib/firmware directories with those from other kernels. So, I am at a loss to help with sulu1.

However, regarding gparted, we are forced to retain the version already in 528-005 because of too many changes and new dependencies in the more recent versions.

You seem to have stumbled upon some incompatibilities in sulu1. We need to rule those out. Please work with lupu-5.2.8.6, which is the most "conservative" variant of 5.2.8.6. When you talk about the various workarounds or "fixes", you lose me. Once/if you you get that working, we can progress to sulu2 (for which I can take responsibility).

Another approach you could try if you insist on using sulu1 is to try playdayz's last version of sulu, here:
http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/superluci-005.iso

That would eliminate the effects of my changes.
Richard


Hi Richard,

I'm used to finding problems with Puppy, especially in the older parts, such as the Universal installer. It's a double whammy, in that old things that are broken (but not much used, or not used by the coders) are just carried on from one version to another, while things that did work are broken in the upgrades.

I went to Sulu because I need not only ntfs support, but also USB3.0 support. I don't have any appetite for testing just to find out who went wrong where. I spent dozens of hours a few years ago doing that with the boot floppies, proving that MOST of the claimed functions (ZIP, LS-120...) NEVER worked. And it was all wasted effort (and not mine alone), because nothing was done about it. I see that now, when you try to install to LS-120, there's a face-saving ploy, whereby the function is aborted (for your own good), when actually, it never worked - I know because I booted off LS120 on an old laptop for a couple of years, and it was gruesome - not because of the speed, but because there was no real support for the medium - getting a good install took a dozen tries, and every time something went wrong, you had to get Windows to fix the disk.

So - I wish you the best of luck, and maybe I'll be back for another look later.

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nooby

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PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar 2014, 16:19    Post_subject:  

otropogo much appreciated that you use that much details
to describe what you have tested so far and how you set it up.

I downloaded the sulu 1 iso and will try to boot it up tomorrow
PM maybe. Doc make a visit between 9 AM to12 AM and then
time for some "food"

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otropogo


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PostPosted: Sat 22 Mar 2014, 01:33    Post_subject:  

nooby wrote:
otropogo much appreciated that you use that much details
to describe what you have tested so far and how you set it up.

I downloaded the sulu 1 iso and will try to boot it up tomorrow
PM maybe. Doc make a visit between 9 AM to12 AM and then
time for some "food"


Thanks Nooby. We're going to have to nickname you "old Nooby" one of these years ;]

One thing to watch out for that I discovered since my last post is that when you use Packet manager to remove old updates (which 528.6 seems to do automatically when it loads a lupusave 2fs file renamed sulusave), things go very bad.

Inspired by sulu's instructions to remove old updates, I tried removing Seamonkey 2.2_lucid525. The result was that I lost my installation of Seamonkey, with all its settings, bookmarks, and, most importantly, the unsavable passwords. Happily, I had a fairly recent backup of the 2fs file to get it all back. Packet manager should really be set up to let you undo your uninstall for situations like this.

Before that near disaster, I thought I'd get rid of some of the numerous pburn updates littering the packet manager uninstall menu. I started with the earliest, with the result that the only pburn left was the one that came bundled (3.5.1 IIRC)

So I wonder if that is part of the problem with sulu.

The saving grace of Puppy for me has always been those few generous souls who will make a pet I need, or fix one that's broken. I do most of my web browsing in puppy, and I save a lot of stuff and then move it over to Windows. And therefore I need a virus scanner for Puppy, because my Windows is so old I don't have any antivirus or any security for it other than an old firewall. I need to scan the stuff before I transfer it.

And unfortunately, fprot/xfprot, the only virus scanner i've ever found in Puppy, doesn't seem to have a home in sulu. The other problem is passwords. Things would be better if we had access to a decent multi-OS password manager, like KeePass, but I don't see it either.

I'm waiting for this year's version of Knoppix to see if it will have better SDXC, USB3.0, and AV support. If so, I might make the big leap. The Puppy community has become so fragmented among the multitude of artisan derivatives that you pretty much have to be a coder yourself if you have any interests or needs out of the ordinary.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 22 Mar 2014, 12:30    Post_subject:  

So typical me I promise to test Sulu and now I am not
motivated anymore So I step back from that promise.

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