UEFI Drove Me Home

[nooby]

Ted Dog much appreciated.

Wow but the instructions do say that some seconds of hard boot
will set it to the needed position to use for booting.

So what am I supposed to do instead?

Changing the win 8 HD after back up?

Making the whole gear into Linux dedicated machine?

Would be cool to have maybe? Any suggestion.

I so want to use the internal HD for saving.

If I take it oot and make it a non booting and
put a USB to boot and it saves to the now external
as kif it is a memory only using the free? space
not program spaces? Only NTFS partition and not EFI?

Then it would be easy to boot too? I am sleepy so
apology for slppy thinking.

[Ted Dog]

flashdrive can be made to dual boot either or mode. IE since UEFI and old BIOS mode is so diferent a mix and match can be made. But I do this only for and with linux.
Leave windows8 alone..

use stock flashdrive already formated to Fat32 click on Fatdog64 iso file and copy efiboot.img to root or tmp.. rename efiboot.img to efiboot.3fs click on that renamed img file to open it up in ROX. copy entire files and folders into a folder EFI on flashdrive.
copy rest of iso files to base folder of flashdrive. That sbould make the flashdrive bootable of UEFI and my windows8 in UEFI mode looks to USB first anyway.
next using this flashdrive reboot machine and use UFI aware fatdog64 to install a mbr. install syslinux bootloader and now your flash drive can boot into either or machines. BIOS mode will be syslinux config. and EFI grub config.

[jtwdyp]

Hello nooby. First let me tell you that Ted dog gave you good advice about just running from
the flash drive and leaving win8's hard drive alone...

But I know that's not what you want to hear... SO

Wow but the instructions do say that some seconds of hard boot
will set it to the needed position to use for booting.

So what am I supposed to do instead?

Changing the win 8 HD after back up?

YES Even if your not going to "touch" the internal hard drive... Do back up...

Inside win8 find the link/command to make a restore disk. MAKE ONE better yet
make two, one never knows when something will happen to a dvd... there's a how-to here:

http://www.techsupportalert.com/content ... dows-8.htm

Notice that just below those instructions there is a section talking about a win7 method...
If you have win8 rather than win8.1 this describes how to make a full system image...
Another thing you really should do

If on the other hand you do have win 8.1 they hid the system image function elsewhere:
«check out this link»

https://www.techsupportalert.com/conten ... istory.htm

Either way, if your going to play with your win8 internal hard drive, PLEASE make the system image.

This may take several DVDs It might be better to use an external (usb) hard drive...

Making the whole gear into Linux dedicated machine?
Would be cool to have maybe? Any suggestion.

Yeah, But if your used to windows, you might want to duel boot instead...

Either way You need to decide if you want to make your life easier by turning off secure boot...

http://packard-bell-scandic.custhelp.co ... a_id/27071

Document ID: 27071
How to Enable or Disable Secure Boot

Click on the laptop tab...

It will tell you to completely shut down win8. (see the link in my previous post.) And it
looks like you have to (at least temporarily) create a supervisor password do do this...

NOTE this is not the same as switching the bios to "legacy mode" The system would still be
UEFI, It just wouldn't deny permission to boot because of not having a Microsoft approved
"key" etc... But I suspect that most the mainstream Linux are already UEFI aware. Or have an
UEFI version... But if you want to do a little more work, some of them even have methods to
boot on secure boot PCs...

I so want to use the internal HD for saving.

For which reason AFTER you have made both the recovery disk AND a system image
You can use win8 itself to shrink its size to make room to create a partition(s) to store
your fatdog stuff on. and/or to install a linux to...

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile ... windows-8/

If I take it oot and make it a non booting and
put a USB to boot and it saves to the now external
as kif it is a memory only using the free? space
not program spaces? Only NTFS partition and not EFI?

Then it would be easy to boot too? I am sleepy so
apology for slppy thinking.

I

I been to sleepy to think straight before...
But I'll confess I don't have a clue what your talking about here...

Good luck!

[Ted Dog]

Remember how I posted that windows8 expects to OWN harddrive. well Microsoft has done one better. They now use the default type of a linux partion as new default for NTFS under Windows8.. So if you do resize main partion to make a linux partition Windows8 will automagically ask if you want to format 'blank' partions everytime you boot.. Get this it is not unformated its linux be careful. A new linux id has been developed that windows did not overtake but not widely used. Need to tell Kirk and James about that for future use.

[nooby]

flashdrive can be made to dual boot either or mode. IE since UEFI and old BIOS mode is so diferent a mix and match can be made. But I do this only for and with linux.
Leave windows8 alone.. ....

jtwdyp thanks for your good advices too.

Ted Dog

I am too naive and trusty. I will abandon
tempering with the HD then and accept that
booting with a USB flask is totally okay.

I will test if the settings I have now allow this alreasy.

I am too sleepy to think straight So sorry.

I've managed to set the UEFI to legacy? Maybe?

Trying to boot a CrushBang "live" Usb I must have
hit the wrong button or something. I trusted that
either it recognize USB or show something to click on
or accepted to show it after me hitting F12 often enough.

I test again wednessday PM. 04.25AM is way too early for me.

But I have several USB like Linux Mint. andSolid and solux and Zorin.
to check out if any boot with F12.

I should look into BIOS again to se that USF FDD? is first thing
it does? Maybe that is why the HD boot first instead of letting
it try the USB flash.

[nooby]

Have any of you tested this from ZDnet?

The simplest way of accessing Windows 8's boot options menu
is to hold down the shift key while clicking 'Restart'.

But do I have a restart button on my Swedish keyboard?
Or do they refer to something that comes up with the new keystrokes?
Read about it here
http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-start-up ... 010026255/

[nooby]

And how would this one work out of the latest versions of UEFI?

We've already seen major distribution updates such as Fedora 18
include technology to enable booting on Windows 8 Secure Boot hardware,

but only last week—after considerable delay—
did the Linux Foundation release its Linux Foundation Secure Boot System,
a Microsoft-signed mini bootloader for making that possible across the board.

Has anybody tried that one?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2028388/ ... -boot.html

[Ted Dog]

sounds like the same shim loader that Fatdog64 uses.. so not really ground breaking. But may be important if it is a NEW shim loader after the Microsoft changed the companys directions on signing 3rd party boot loaders.

[Ted Dog]

the shift button is something I have not read before but that article is almost two years old... Shift and power on button should be the same thing.

[jtwdyp]

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 544#762544

Why those {expletive deleted} sneaky Microsoft {several expletives deleted} I hates them forever

[jtwdyp]

Have any of you tested this from ZDnet?

The simplest way of accessing Windows 8's boot options menu
is to hold down the shift key while clicking 'Restart'.

Not exactly, But I've used a related shifted shutdown option.

But do I have a restart button on my Swedish keyboard?
Or do they refer to something that comes up with the new keystrokes?

They're not talking about a keyboard button nooby, But if you click on the shutdoun Icon {Even the one in the bottom righthand corner of the login screen} it will display a pop-up of three choices. One of them says restart. The idea is that after you get it to offer that restart choice, you hold the shift key on the keyboard, while you use the mouse to click on the restart choice. And if the zdnet article is to be believed, that would generate a menu of restart options, including booting a usb device.

Of course, if you haven't managed to either switch bios to legacy mode, or the separate choice of disabling secure boot (see the links in my previous posts) Then the usb device would only boot if secure boot allows it. Which is why the first time you boot a fatdog duel architecture usb key like the one Ted dog told us how to make, you would have to jump through a few hoops to tell secure boot to trust fatdog's "keys". {the next time secure boot would just recognize them and let it boot.} But if it was MY win8 machine, the first thing Id have done would be to disable secure boot. And maybe also to switch bios to legacy mode, either of which should get secure boot out of the way.

Read about it here
http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-start-up ... 010026255/

the shift button is something I have not read before but that article is almost two years old... Shift and power on button should be the same thing.

Similar in that you first click on the power «icon not the keyboard button» you get a three choice menu including shutdown and restart. Holding the shift key on the keyboard while clicking on the shutdown choice with the mouse caused windows 8 to actually shut down instead of just hibernate. And I guess doing the same with the restart choice gets you a special restart menu...

Better still find the set-up choice to disable "fastboot" so windows will always properly shutdown and also let you access things on power-on like the boot menu, and or the "bios" settings menu where you can define the boot order to give precedence to the connected usb device.

Though it's not certain that it will remember that precedence after having booted even onetime without the removable usb device still in the same usb port... Though on the one win8 machine (a cheap gateway laptop) that I got to test the UEFI secure boot-ability of an duel architecture fatdog flash drive did actualy remember it on a subsequent boot...

[nooby]

Yes so sorry. Two years old is way to old.
I can not trust them to work then.
Ms can have changed so they no longer work.

I am back at position zero then or what am I supposed
to do now.

To be able to boot an USB flash is what I long for now.

[nooby]

jtwdyp thanks then I know how to activete that USB boot hopefully.
Medication makes me too tired to test it out just now so maybe later.

Edit some 10 hours later. Now I only need the courage and good luck
to actually do all the moves in a careful manner and hope I don't brick it.

As I get it if I have not shut down the fast booting then it could get bricked
stop to work at all? I hope the 5 second hard boot kills the fast booting.

So suppose I fail to shut off the "fast boot" thing and that makes Win 8.1
lose the needed info to work.

Would it be difficult to make it a dedicated all Linux computer?

Would I lack needed drivers that only the secred code that MicroSoft
put in and them they don't share it with us?

Or can I tread the failed machine like any computer
not having a OS yet and I put Linux Mint as a boot
and then a lot of Puppies on same Fat32 or if the other
partitions is big enough I put a lot of Puppies in these slots?

Damn I know too little about the complexity of it all.

I should be able to use Shinobars way to set it up grldr and MBR
from an USB ? ?

[Burn_IT]

You should be able to buy a machine without Widows!

[nooby]

You should be able to buy a machine without Widows!

Maybe just maybe maybe not in Sweden though unless
I pay a huge sum for it.

You can buy Motherboards without a OS But that would be
some I destroy in no time.

[Burn_IT]

It probably would be difficult to buy one without from a Supermarket or or the likes of Curries???, but I would expect a specialist computer shop to supply one without.

[jtwdyp]

You should be able to buy a machine without Widows!

Maybe just maybe maybe not in Sweden though unless
I pay a huge sum for it.

It probably would be difficult to buy one without from a Supermarket or or the likes of Curries???, but I would expect a specialist computer shop to supply one without.

If nooby has the resources to buy a high end model then he might find one at a computer store. But going by his concern about paying "a huge sum" for it, and by price range of the packard bell win8 machine he said he recently bought earlier in this thread, I'm betting he might be better off looking for a low cost win 7 machine that won't have the secure boot problem that makes it hard to install Linux.

If he really needs/wants the Linux to be pre-installed he could look on-line but while I didn't have much trouble finding windows laptop for around $300 usd When I looked for Linux laptops, the low end price was more like $600 usd...

While I was looking I tripped over this blog which tries to explain it. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/a ... ng-windows
I don't know if this "Jack" knows what he is talking about or not... But his reasoning on why it costs more to buy one without windows sounded right to me.

[greengeek]

While I was looking I tripped over this blog which tries to explain it. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/a ... ng-windows

Here is a quote from that article:

the cost of Windows licences is ameliorated by other factors. These include payments for including pups (potentially unwanted programs, or "crapware")

Not sure why he is picking on 'pups'. Maybe he needs to visit this forum a bit...

[Burn_IT]

That article is extremely misleading to say the least. The writer is a Windows fanboy.

The cost of making the machine is the same whatever OS is on it.
The OS is usually preloadad on the disk when they are supplied. I costs no more to supply a blank disk.

OEMs get huge bribes? (or else) from MS and the Potentially Unwanted Program (Crapware) sellers for pre-installing Windows and making it difficult to install anything else.

The argument about drivers is only valid for the very first machine/OS combination in the production run.

MS has a monopoly and enforces it quite rigorously. I have been threatened by them for not doing things by their rules when building machines.

[jtwdyp]

Here is a quote from that article:

the cost of Windows licences is ameliorated by other factors. These include payments for including pups (potentially unwanted programs, or "crapware")

Not sure why he is picking on 'pups'. Maybe he needs to visit this forum a bit...

I had wondered if anyone was going to pick up on that... Of course in his defense, when HE says that pups are crapware, HE isn't talking about the same pups that we'all think are the greatest thing since sliced bread...

That article is extremely misleading to say the least. The writer is a Windows fanboy.

I'm not sure I'd go that far... But I'd agree that he didn't wan't to sound disrespectful of them when he composed his explanation as to why it's usually cheaper for the consumer to start with a PC with windows on it.

The cost of making the machine is the same whatever OS is on it.
The OS is usually preloadad on the disk when they are supplied. I costs no more to supply a blank disk.
OEMs get huge bribes? (or else) from MS and the Potentially Unwanted Program (Crapware) sellers for pre-installing Windows and making it difficult to install anything else.
The argument about drivers is only valid for the very first machine/OS combination in the production run.

Hmmnn, I thought his explanation sounded "reasonable", but yours is a better fit with my own opinion of the nature of a certain tyrant from Redmond...

MS has a monopoly and enforces it quite rigorously. I have been threatened by them for not doing things by their rules when building machines.

And you don't sound as if you caved in... GOOD for you! The world could use a few more like you!