Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Tue 30 Sep 2014, 10:14
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Off-Topic Area » Security
Why is this strange IP address in Network connections?
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 14 of 15 [214 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 12, 13, 14, 15 Next
Author Message
greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2556
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat 25 Jan 2014, 14:34    Post subject:  

Despite the good content in this thread I still have a cluster of questions that are stuck in my head and I haven't been able to answer them satisfactorily yet:

- If I have a puppy operating solely on my internal LAN (without doing any internet accesses...) does anyone out there on the interweb thingy (or hackerverse as it should more properly be known) realise that this machine is even turned on?

- As soon as this machine receives it's local IP and communicated with my router has the router already applied for an external IP for this machine? If not, at what point DOES an external IP (specific to THIS machine) get allocated?

- Once an external IP is allocated to my machine who gets to know what that external IP is? Obviously my ISP knows, but does it report this information to a google server? Or does it maybe have to report it to one of those 13 internet hub thingies?

- At what point is this machine exposed to pings from an external source?

If someone could beat some sense into my head on these points I'd be really happy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1633

PostPosted: Sat 25 Jan 2014, 15:04    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
- If I have a puppy operating solely on my internal LAN (without doing any internet accesses...) does anyone out there on the interweb thingy (or hackerverse as it should more properly be known) realise that this machine is even turned on?

If you LAN is connected to the web the machines are connected too. Unless you have some specific configuration on your router.
Regarding "hackerverse", the probability to be struck by lightning is about 1/15000 (in the USA), while to have a car accident, 1 in 4!
Internet does not look that bad really.

greengeek wrote:
- As soon as this machine receives it's local IP and communicated with my router has the router already applied for an external IP for this machine? If not, at what point DOES an external IP (specific to THIS machine) get allocated?

The local machines do not get an external IP (that's why you need to find it asking an outside source). Because of the IPv4 address exhaustion ISP providers use network address translation to accommodate many PC with the same external IP (as we said before...).

greengeek wrote:
- Once an external IP is allocated to my machine who gets to know what that external IP is? Obviously my ISP knows, but does it report this information to a google server? Or does it maybe have to report it to one of those 13 internet hub thingies?

Check the link above. Should be clear.
Regarding reporting from your ISP, NAT addresses are usually dynamic so there is no point in reporting them. However they are logged and they know at every given moment who has what. So when the court order arrives they can tell.
Google and friends, have other means to track you through your browser and they do not really care if your computer is on or off.

greengeek wrote:
- At what point is this machine exposed to pings from an external source?
As soon as you connect to the web and do not have a firewall that blocks ping.
However, ping response can not be exploited for much more than a DoS which is unlikely for any personal machine to be the target of.
Puppy linux is not running any services so ports are closed (check for yourself with SieldsUp) so is a very hard target, unless you are fooled to download some malicious program or visit a malicious site (though these are mostly MS-Windows oriented).

_________________
Kids all over the world go around with an XO laptop. They deserve one puppy (or many) too Very Happy

Last edited by mavrothal on Sat 25 Jan 2014, 15:26; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2556
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat 25 Jan 2014, 15:17    Post subject:  

Thanks mavrothal. Great Heavens, that NAT stuff is pretty heavy. I think that explains why I sometimes get naughty pictures popping up on my screen. Must be someone else was asking for them and my router incorrectly put it's hand up and said "They must be for me..."
Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
rackerhacker


Joined: 04 Aug 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun 09 Feb 2014, 23:23    Post subject: Seriously, folks. Seriously.  

Thanks to a member of the Puppy Linux community for linking me to this thread. Please remove your tin foil hats and review the following:

I operate icanhazip.com (and icanhaztraceroute.com and icanhaztrace.com and icanhazptr.com) using my own money, time and resources. Those sites run on these two IP addresses:

Code:
$ host icanhazip.com
icanhazip.com has address 216.69.252.100
icanhazip.com has address 216.69.252.101


If you use curl to reach the site, you'll notice an important header:

Code:
$ curl -si icanhazip.com | grep RTFM
X-RTFM: Learn about this site at http://bit.ly/14DAh2o and don't abuse the service


That url takes you to my blog where there is information about the icanhazip applications as well as information about me.

I'm not sure how I can be any more transparent than I've already been. If you're upset with your Puppy Linux device talking to my services, please talk to Puppy Linux developers or maintainers.

Please stop sending me hate mail.
Please stop calling my hosting provider to curse at them.
Please stop spreading lies about me on this forum.

Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 08:20    Post subject:  

Indeed.... what stupid idiot choose to use this guys website ...did anyone think to ask? Would not google or similar who care not be a better choice?

I ping the router to do the same job...its easy and upsets no one.

mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7805
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 08:36    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:
Indeed.... what stupid idiot choose to use this guys website ...did anyone think to ask?


As far as I know, vovchik was the the one who wrote the original 'ipinfo' script. Also, as far as I know, vovchik has been a UN diplomat.. who dislikes charities. I am absolutely sure he won't mind me sharing that. Jemimah was the first to include 'ipinfo' into any puppy (puppeee iirc). Also, as far as I know, the icanhazip site is available for public use, any os, anytime etc, etc.

mikeb wrote:
Would not google or similar who care not be a better choice?

Why?

mikeb wrote:
I ping the router to do the same job...its easy and upsets no one.

mike


Yes, but you are the admin at said router else you wouldn't have permission to get the outside IP from said router.

I believe I am said member.

_________________
Woof Mailing List | keep the faith Cool |
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 08:55    Post subject:  

Outside ip? just ping 192.168.1.1 or whatever the subnet is... it keeps the wifi alive...

But thousands of pups all madly pinging the same site...
at least google is used to billions of hits...

mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7805
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 09:12    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:
Outside ip? just ping 192.168.1.1 or whatever the subnet is... it keeps the wifi alive...

Isn't the point.

mikeb wrote:
But thousands of pups all madly pinging the same site...
at least google is used to billions of hits...

That is a case of 'were'. The problematic program was 'firewallstate'. It pinged icanhazip.com at each X restart, that is and was the bug. Current advice is to disable that app. There is a fix for that now, not generally available as a pet but I'll get on to that. Besides, rackerhacker (aka majorhayden) doesn't have a problem with the volume just the attitude. Of course unnecessary volume is a bug and is being addressed.

Besides, anything google puts out is hardly scriptable. This has been debated and refuted a thousand times. Please read a bit more on the bunch of threads about this, sorry, no links.

_________________
Woof Mailing List | keep the faith Cool |
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 09:17    Post subject:  

well really pages of dull rants...just thought i'd join in .

What was the point anyway?

mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 09:32    Post subject:  

The only part in your post, that matters:
rackerhacker wrote:
If you're upset with your Puppy Linux device talking to my services, please talk to Puppy Linux developers or maintainers.

Puppy Linux developers and maintainers refuse to listen to the user's concerns. They want the user to silently accept the fact, that Puppy Linux will continue using your services. It's ultimately irrelevant who's providing them - you, or anyone else. I do not want those services to be hardcoded into my computer. That's the only concern here and not your personality, no matter how vaulted it might be.
rackerhacker wrote:
Please remove your tin foil hats and review the following:

No need to insult the community. No need to fake indignation.
I do not want Puppy to visit places without my knowledge, am I wearing a tin foil hat? How's that for you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7805
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 09:52    Post subject:  

mikeb wrote:
well really pages of dull rants...just thought i'd join in.

Laughing Yep! Thanks for joining Smile . All angles need to be covered.
The point was that a user could be empowered by knowledge. But, some don't want to know under guise of 'security', or "para${suffix}".

-

anikin wrote:
Puppy Linux developers and maintainers refuse to listen to the user's concerns. They want the user to silently accept the fact, that Puppy Linux will continue using your services. It's ultimately irrelevant who's providing them - you, or anyone else. I do not want those services to be hardcoded into my computer. That's the only concern here and not your personality, no matter how vaulted it might be.


Oh.. so you are the quintessential 'user'. Do you rant on at Mark Shuttleworth, Patrick Volkerding, Anne Nichols and various other distro maintainers that have "hard coded" "services" into your "computer"?
Its a choice, take it or leave it.

_________________
Woof Mailing List | keep the faith Cool |
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 10:10    Post subject:  

no the point of pinging a website in less than 10 words?
Seems like a plot has been lost here
mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1633

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 10:27    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:

Puppy Linux developers and maintainers refuse to listen to the user's concerns.

"Puppy Linux developers and maintainers" provide a functionality (to find your external IP) that can be turned off by the user.
The fact that 2 or 3 people do not like the service it does not mean that the service should be removed, specially when is optional.

anikin wrote:
I do not want Puppy to visit places without my knowledge, am I wearing a tin foil hat?

After 14 pages of exhausting discussions and not a shred of evidence of any wrong doing, what do you think? Are you?

_________________
Kids all over the world go around with an XO laptop. They deserve one puppy (or many) too Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4288
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 18:48    Post subject:  

This issue comes back again and again with some unwilling to accept that what is occurring is for user benefit and reduces (repeat "reduces") questions which led to this addition in Puppyland.

Development of Puppy has made it extremely simple for those unfamiliar with syntac or desktop navigation to know if they have presence to the internet.

Those who have short memories miss why and what PUPPY's design criterion was in the first place. A PC that will provide local apps and get you to the internet with simple presence (LAN or WAN).

PINGs DO NOT EXPOSE YOUR LOCATION TO EXPLOITS! It has been demonstrated as far back as 22 years ago that pings do not offer-up exploitation!

The site selection that occurred could have been 01Smokey's site or Murga-Linux's site or your own site and in doing so your network would NOT be exposed to exploitation.

I fail to clearly understand why there continues to be an argument from some. And the rebuttals and explanations recur exactly as when this thread opened.

Again, there is NO BUG. And again, there is NO known exploitation, proven.
We never had a problem. This started as a concern NOT as a problem.

Maybe we should just vacate this thread and leave it to those who want to continue attempts to create and carry this. Maybe they can somehow show how this has exploited the community. Until now, it has NOT BEEN SHOWN TO EXPLOIT OR HARM OR ....

FURTHER, now that everyone knows about (members who have read this thread) it is NOT PUPPY DOING ANYTHING UNKNOWN ... ANYMORE!

Final Notes:
This thread has review this from every conceivable vantage points without exposing a real threat or a real problem. There is concern over the number of pings that occur and that has been addressed.

Has anyone else, other than me, found that the Opening Poster @Edwardo has NOT BEEN SEEN SINCE the arguments started. Maybe this thread should be archieved and closed.

Then anyone who can show exploit, can reopen a new thread sharing such with us for addressing.

Hope this helps

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 434

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb 2014, 20:53    Post subject:  

Yep I wondered if Edwardo might now be busy starring on the film lot for Enemy of The State II.

What would be good though is a little howto in the howto section for those that need or want to do their own pinging. Then in the future people can be pointed to the howto if they are concerned.

I can try and do one but will have to read through 14 pages of this stuff to get to the best one.

It just got heated because some people didn't know what was going on, or understood what was going on but weren't happy with it, or like me don't know what the hell it is really, I can see IP in a puppy wine voip I use anyway if I need to know it.

But I understand that it is a handy thing, and Major Hayden was happy to provide it.

I've started on a HOWTO, not sure if it is correct, (three other bits)? but hopefully if some newcomers to Puppy get startled about their stats in Network Status Information, at least they will know what it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 14 of 15 [214 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 12, 13, 14, 15 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Off-Topic Area » Security
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1130s ][ Queries: 12 (0.0082s) ][ GZIP on ]