Community Edition anyone interested?

News, happenings
Message
Author
anikin
Posts: 994
Joined: Thu 10 May 2012, 06:16

#586 Post by anikin »

Ghost Dog wrote:Simargl as Package Management Lead Dev
Why does it have to be simargl?
Why not Justin Bieber, or Paris Hilton?
That clown, listed together with real devs, means any community effort will be nipped in the bud.
.
Last edited by anikin on Tue 24 Dec 2013, 03:06, edited 1 time in total.

jpeps
Posts: 3179
Joined: Sat 31 May 2008, 19:00

Re: Puppy-CE

#587 Post by jpeps »

tlchost wrote:
jpeps wrote:
sszindian wrote:
Of course there are other things I test in a distro but these are the first and most important - at least for me.

All my testing is done on 3 computers -
Here's a radical idea...choose the project that most closely matches your hardware in addition to how you use the computer. A project that attempts to run everything always loses efficiency.
Hmm, but that means it would be very difficult to produce a "One Size Fits All" OS.
More like rule it out completely. The job of the developer is far easier when a project is well defined and limited. Applications can be smaller and targeted. That's also in keeping with current trends.

wanderer
Posts: 1098
Joined: Sat 20 Oct 2007, 23:17

#588 Post by wanderer »

Greetings puppy community edition fans

If a few of the members of the puppy community want to make a community edition enough to actually do something instead of just talking endlessly. It will eventually get done

The people that criticize others but do nothing themselves should be ignored. They are just the meaningless background noise of life.

I have removed the link to the CE repository because i can think of no way to distribute it appropriately and i do not want to post it generally and open it to abuse. if someone has an iso that they wish to share they will have to use their own link.

I now look forward to the new year filled with many enjoyable hours working on linux and puppy

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night

Wanderer

darry1966

#589 Post by darry1966 »

wanderer wrote:Greetings puppy community edition fans

If a few of the members of the puppy community want to make a community edition enough to actually do something instead of just talking endlessly. It will eventually get done

The people that criticize others but do nothing themselves should be ignored. They are just the meaningless background noise of life.

I have removed the link to the CE repository because i can think of no way to distribute it appropriately and i do not want to post it generally and open it to abuse. if someone has an iso that they wish to share they will have to use their own link.

I now look forward to the new year filled with many enjoyable hours working on linux and puppy

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night

Wanderer
First Wanderer I want to say thank you for trying to start the initiative of a CE Distro but to be honest what you were proposing is a Pupplet not really suitable for a mainline Community Distro and to be honest a System like the Community model is only as good as those involved with it is on the whole a successful system on what many great distros have been built on.

I don't think any criticism of the community system is warranted and really falls or succeeds in the hands of that community. I still believe the frankly the silly Benevolent Dictator Model is not what Open Source/Foss is about.

Unfortunately this Thread got diluted into a wish fest and some insults - Just to long in the debate dept. You need to have debate to get ideas thrashed out but also know when to say ok we must decide to go in this direction and go with it.

Anyway Wanderer Merry Xmas and to all those in this Community and who knows what might come out next year for example Dejan and an updated DPUP from him and the ongoing 5.286 project well done Rerwin and co - Level headed stuff. Anyway good luck Puppy Community for the new year and simargl with your distro - just don't bely your talents with wasteful silly trolling.

Best wishes all


Darren

darry1966

User avatar
ttuuxxx
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sat 05 May 2007, 10:00
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia
Contact:

#590 Post by ttuuxxx »

For some odd reason, I had no notifications of postings by users, grrr that gets me, anyways The next CE I think should be be using the same kernel, glibc, and xorg as debian, or ubuntu or Slackware, But forget all the massive backend things, keep it gtk2 and we will compile what is needed after we have jwm.
then we could move on.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

User avatar
dejan555
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun 30 Nov 2008, 11:57
Location: Montenegro
Contact:

#591 Post by dejan555 »

Correct me if I'm wrong but puppy "Community Edition" has always been, as far as I know just a latest official stable puppy polished and fixed by community.

If there was stable puppy 1.08, it was 1.09CE
For puppy 2.14, there was 2.15CE
For puppy 4.1x there was 4.2.1 CE

So earlier when someone like you started thread for CE edition, puppy community said just "let's do it!" and there was no question in base, latest puppy was served by Barry and left for community to play with.

I think the reason we don't see new CEs is because a lot of polishing nowadays is done directly to woof and now that there's woof-CE I think development will only go for better. (I remember when doing puppy 4.2.1 lots of fixes done for that version weren't incorporated back to official puppy because Barry did not monitor changes and in meantime worked on something else that became next puppy, but now we have woof-CE)

The other reason is there isn't one mainline puppy anymore but with variety of choices for binary compatibility we now have dpup, spup etc... and there are developers that took role of maintaining them and part of community that follows that specific project.

So wanderer why such haste for "CE" ?
Are you afraid puppy is going to disappear? Because it's not.

As far as future development of puppy generally goes I think we should do:
Developers should continue work on the projects they normally do and send back fixes to woof-CE
Users can test and suggest new fixes

I don't think puppy needs a total rewrite, puppy as we know it is very good just needs more polishing.
As far as binary compatibility goes woof was created because there was always issue with lack of puppy packages and updating/recompiling them for next release. Puppy is not supported and managed by some big company. There are many good developers here who like contributing to puppy but there's noone to tell them "Maintain this, this and this package for xxx future puppy versions" but that's the beauty of puppy, there are still many awesome puppy releases.

Puppy is beautifull
Thanks to Barry and everyone who ever contributed to it and keep the good work guys.

Dejan
puppy.b0x.me stuff mirrored [url=https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_Mb589v0iCXNnhSZWRwd3R2UWs]HERE[/url] or [url=http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_puppy.b0x.me_mirror]HERE[/url]

cthisbear
Posts: 4422
Joined: Sun 29 Jan 2006, 22:07
Location: Sydney Australia

#592 Post by cthisbear »

Here is a what I want.

Most of the Puppy commands >> puppy pfix=ram ...etc

Why are we still having to type it.

Particularly the obscure ones for video cards.

Why not numbers.

We can hit F2.

Why not an F3 >>> then a quick description.. >> then hit a number.

I think Shinobar had a really early JP release with much more options.

About time we came out of the caves.

Was it you ttuuxxx who did the early work on the first boot logo??

To me this is an obvious deal breaker for newbies.

And quite honestly I hate that command crap on booting up.

Cheers to all.....Chris.

bark_bark_bark
Posts: 1885
Joined: Tue 05 Jun 2012, 12:17
Location: Wisconsin USA

#593 Post by bark_bark_bark »

cthisbear wrote:And quite honestly I hate that command crap on booting up.
That command crap is awesome and important. You can't get any info off of a bloated splash screen program that appeare(s/d) to (be/) freez(en/on).
Last edited by bark_bark_bark on Thu 26 Dec 2013, 14:31, edited 1 time in total.
....

User avatar
technosaurus
Posts: 4853
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 01:24
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Contact:

#594 Post by technosaurus »

YOU DO NOT NEED ANY OF THAT CRAP.
You can boot straight to X+jwm in less than 10 lines of code in about 0.2s and let the other "garbage" run in a terminal.

basic steps
0 export variables
1 autologin
2 mount sys proc dev and dev/pts
3 start Xvesa or xfbdev (or Xorg but it takes longer and is larger)
4 start wm
5 use the wm's startup command to run the rest in an rxvt -e ... in jwm this is <StartupCommand>
6 While that is running pop up a configuration gui for all the stuff requiring user input including the possibility to switch to Xorg, change language, keyboard etc...

using a splash is a waste of time ... just set a default bg image for jwm in the /etc/system.jwmrc (or /usr/etc/system.jwmrc if a less informed packager built your jwm)

Continue discussing the color of the bike shed if you want, I have already demolished it and paved over it.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

User avatar
dejan555
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun 30 Nov 2008, 11:57
Location: Montenegro
Contact:

#595 Post by dejan555 »

technosaurus, do you have alternative rc.sysinit / xwin /xinitrc that you use? Have you already posted it somewhere?
See now we're talking, let's get some code suggested for improvement and maybe it will be accepted in woof-CE if it still provides same functionality but with more efficient startup times etc...
Is there a woof-CE thread or are developers supposed to send commits directly to git?
Why not have both (git for developers and thread for regular users and suggestions?)
puppy.b0x.me stuff mirrored [url=https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_Mb589v0iCXNnhSZWRwd3R2UWs]HERE[/url] or [url=http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_puppy.b0x.me_mirror]HERE[/url]

amigo
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2007, 06:52

#596 Post by amigo »

But wait, I want to use /usr mounted on NFS and run without X as I am building a server. Can your init system do that? And, if I run as you suggest, what happens if the X server won't start on my video hardware? And what about if I want a sane multi-user system where every users needs to login?

User avatar
dejan555
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun 30 Nov 2008, 11:57
Location: Montenegro
Contact:

#597 Post by dejan555 »

amigo, I said "if it provides same functionality" meaning if it stays in puppy fashion of doing things

I said I think puppy doesn't need rewrite but no reason not to optimize/improve code in scripts if in the end it has same effect.
If I understand correctly technosaurus said that most stuff that user sees on startup could be run in background while starting X faster?

EDIT: On the multiuser thing: pizzasgood proved that it can be done but Barry has gone in the wrong direction with implementation of spot and not giving users choice to add more users with own home directories.
I think most of puppy users want to run as root, it's more of the linux community outside of puppy that always criticize puppy because of it but I think it's a feature that could be added to puppy (again, it's mostly puppy scripts that need to be changed, not totally rewritten to use different directories instead hardcoded /root/, you can already create new users in puppy but you can't run Xorg and other puppy scripts won't work well)
puppy.b0x.me stuff mirrored [url=https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_Mb589v0iCXNnhSZWRwd3R2UWs]HERE[/url] or [url=http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_puppy.b0x.me_mirror]HERE[/url]

User avatar
greengeek
Posts: 5789
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2010, 09:34
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

#598 Post by greengeek »

dejan555 wrote: On the multiuser thing: pizzasgood proved that it can be done ..... I think it's a feature that could be added to puppy (again, it's mostly puppy scripts that need to be changed, not totally rewritten to use different directories instead hardcoded /root/,
I think it would be very handy for a CE puppy to have some sort of "sandbox" (is that the same thing as spot and fido??) where a user could run a browser.

Even if this was not a truly multiuser functionality it would be nice to be able to let the kids tinker online knowing that they couldn't damage system files (and that the browser couldn't damage them either...)

Could this be achieved via an sfs? A sandbox_browser sfs??

User avatar
dejan555
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun 30 Nov 2008, 11:57
Location: Montenegro
Contact:

#599 Post by dejan555 »

greengeek, dpup 484/485 has a "SafeBrowse" script that runs browser as user "nobody" in /tmp and delete files after close, it doesn't work for me anymore with newer seamonkey versions as seamonkey complains about missing profile, but maybe can be fixed or made to use with other browser? Here's the code

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash
#       SafeBrowse
#       
#       Copyright 2010 G Pearson
#       
#       This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
#       it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
#       the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
#       (at your option) any later version.
#       
#       This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
#       but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
#       MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
#       GNU General Public License for more details.
#       
#       You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
#       along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
#       Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston,
#       MA 02110-1301, USA.

#pre-run setup
cp -f /root/.gtkrc-2.0 /tmp/.gtkrc-2.0
su nobody -c /lib/seamonkey/seamonkey

#exit cleanup
rm -f -r /tmp/.mozilla &&
rm -f -r /tmp/.macromedia &&
rm -f -r /tmp/.adobe &&
rm -f /tmp/.gtkrc-2.0
exit
There's also this:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=45884
(haven't used or tested)

Running as spot/fido is running as restricted user, so it is more secure too.
puppy.b0x.me stuff mirrored [url=https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_Mb589v0iCXNnhSZWRwd3R2UWs]HERE[/url] or [url=http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_puppy.b0x.me_mirror]HERE[/url]

User avatar
mikeslr
Posts: 3890
Joined: Mon 16 Jun 2008, 21:20
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

Doing something beyond talking

#600 Post by mikeslr »

Hi again,

Sorry if it seems I'm going over the same material, but it occurred to me, unless I've got it wrong again, that wanderer and I aren't very far apart. Our visions are, in fact, compatible.
First an apology to goingnuts. I represented, without citing a webpage reference, that he wasn't sure pUPnGO was a good idea for a Community Edition. As I understand wanderer's vision, it is to use pUPnGO as the base, onto which different flavors of SFSes could be loaded. [The pUPnGO base, itself, would be a fully working OS capable of running on old, resource-limited computers. The flavors could include one or more capable of using the most recent applications and taking advantage of the resources of recent computers]. This is not very different from my previous suggestion. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 752#742752. Back in August, bark_bark_bark suggested a somewhat different approach to modularity. See the discussion beginning here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 197#722197, as to which goingnuts responded: “You are sure pupngo is a healthy starting point? (I'm not).

User avatar
technosaurus
Posts: 4853
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 01:24
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Contact:

#601 Post by technosaurus »

amigo wrote:But wait, I want to use /usr mounted on NFS and run without X as I am building a server. Can your init system do that? And, if I run as you suggest, what happens if the X server won't start on my video hardware? And what about if I want a sane multi-user system where every users needs to login?
I _could_ add those, but probably won't unless sponsored (I don't think this is something most users really want). X needs root priveledges anyhow and I have made the Xserver and window manager configurable so that gdm, slim or some other display manager could be used for login and wm selection. The way I set up my initramfs, everything is outside of /usr (however it requires a special build of X, wm and terminal emulator since they expect for certain things to be in /usr/share/...) This allows the rest of the system to be bootstrapped however you wish inside the terminal emulator.... and since the whole X environment is <500kb compressed it can be fit inside the kernel in order to enable a tftp boot on systems without a hard drive with /usr being mounted via nfs/cifs/9p and $HOME as well or built from /etc/skel. I want to look into Rob Landley's inittmpfs patches though (similar to tinycore's patch) to reduce the RAM usage and allow swap backing but mostly to not waste 8MB if / is remounted for a full Xorg+glibc system from your favorite distro.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

cthisbear
Posts: 4422
Joined: Sun 29 Jan 2006, 22:07
Location: Sydney Australia

#602 Post by cthisbear »

Uncle Barry outdoing himself again.

Retirement eh?

I think he BK has an agenda mates Ha! Ha!

"""""""

Quirky Snapshot Manager

http://bkhome.org/news/?viewDetailed=00034

" The Quirky Snapshot Manager takes a snapshot of the entire partition and saves it as a compressed file. You can "roll back" to that snapshot whenever you want.
That's the essence of it.

Furthermore, there can be any number of snapshots, a whole history of them, and any earlier snapshot can be rolled back to.

Here is the GUI: "

" Comments:
Snapshots limit Posted on 26 Dec 2013, 20:18 by admin
One point that I should qualify: if the limit is set to 5 snapshots, it does not mean that after taking 5 snapshots, you can't take anymore.

You can keep taking them.

What happens is that the older snapshots get deleted. So, you have 5, the latest snapshot, and four earlier ones (which are delta-files). Any older snapshot is gone. '

Chris.

User avatar
technosaurus
Posts: 4853
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 01:24
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Contact:

#603 Post by technosaurus »

If we wanted continuous snapshotting, we should just use a versioning file system. Its great that Barry is finally getting to research the stuff that interests him though, he always end up discovering something (not always related, but usually interesting and/or important).
I would probably have just used find to get only the files with timestamps newer than the last snapshot which is probably sufficient in a system with union filesystem capability and would eliminate the need for an arbitrary number of snapshots.
To minimize the snapshot size you could use diff or a binary diff depending on the file type (edelta or xdelta)
The cool part is you could start with your original snapshot and selectively apply filters to merge later snapshots.
... but thats too simple and obvious, so I assume (and hope) it has already been done.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

jamesbond
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007, 05:02
Location: The Blue Marble

#604 Post by jamesbond »

dejan555 wrote:So wanderer why such haste for "CE" ?
Are you afraid puppy is going to disappear? Because it's not.
Wanderer started this thread when Barry went into retirement (and disappeared for about 2 months) and there was a genuine concern for Puppy's survivability.

His "CE" proposal was to spark interests among people here to come together and build a "community-built" puppy (CE is probably isn't the best choice for the name; as it is already used for something totally different); proving that Puppy can continue to exist without Barry. His was a practical idea and he got on to build and released a few ISOs himself while people were still talking and debating about the "future of Puppy without Barry".

Sure, his released CEs were based on old kernels and probably isn't up to the quality that Puppy are usually held to but remember that wanderer himself admitted that he is not a "dev" and he is still learning.

What is more important that the ISOs released by wanderer is that his action inspired others to do something too - e.g to come up with Woof-CE (=rightful descendant/fork of Barry's Woof) and new Puppy releases based on Woof-CE (dpup, the new slacko, and others).

Now that Woof-CE is going strong, Puppy based on Woof-CE are available; there is no more questions of whether Puppy will survive (it will). In my opinion wanderer and the thread has achieved his objective. It is time to close and put this thread to rest.

Thank you wanderer. You live up to your name :)

EDIT: Of course, if wanderer or anyone else wants to transform this thread into discussion of a CE puppy in the usual meaning of the word ("take an existing base of official Puppy and mold into a version based on community feedback"), then feel free to do so - I'm not discouraging that at all. Just that, for me, post Barry, all mainline Puppies already feels like CE :).
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

darry1966

#605 Post by darry1966 »

Well said James Bond the new woof CE is fantastic and I thank Wanderer for his iniative in starting this thread and agree their is now Slacko and DPup etc so thank you for your efforts to spur others on.

I know I didn't agree with the Pup'n'go thing but he still achieved what he set out to do even if it may be a little different to his original idea of one CE distro.

I agree one CE Distro days are gone we have exciting variants.

Post Reply