Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Wed 16 Apr 2014, 10:48
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Community Edition anyone interested?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 40 of 42 [621 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 38, 39, 40, 41, 42 Next
Author Message
anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Mon 23 Dec 2013, 22:24    Post subject:  

Ghost Dog wrote:
Simargl as Package Management Lead Dev
Why does it have to be simargl?
Why not Justin Bieber, or Paris Hilton?
That clown, listed together with real devs, means any community effort will be nipped in the bud.
.

Last edited by anikin on Mon 23 Dec 2013, 23:06; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3219

PostPosted: Mon 23 Dec 2013, 22:40    Post subject: Re: Puppy-CE  

tlchost wrote:
jpeps wrote:
sszindian wrote:


Of course there are other things I test in a distro but these are the first and most important - at least for me.

All my testing is done on 3 computers -


Here's a radical idea...choose the project that most closely matches your hardware in addition to how you use the computer. A project that attempts to run everything always loses efficiency.


Hmm, but that means it would be very difficult to produce a "One Size Fits All" OS.


More like rule it out completely. The job of the developer is far easier when a project is well defined and limited. Applications can be smaller and targeted. That's also in keeping with current trends.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 212

PostPosted: Tue 24 Dec 2013, 18:43    Post subject:  

Greetings puppy community edition fans

If a few of the members of the puppy community want to make a community edition enough to actually do something instead of just talking endlessly. It will eventually get done

The people that criticize others but do nothing themselves should be ignored. They are just the meaningless background noise of life.

I have removed the link to the CE repository because i can think of no way to distribute it appropriately and i do not want to post it generally and open it to abuse. if someone has an iso that they wish to share they will have to use their own link.

I now look forward to the new year filled with many enjoyable hours working on linux and puppy

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night

Wanderer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
darry1966

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 292
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 24 Dec 2013, 21:48    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:
Greetings puppy community edition fans

If a few of the members of the puppy community want to make a community edition enough to actually do something instead of just talking endlessly. It will eventually get done

The people that criticize others but do nothing themselves should be ignored. They are just the meaningless background noise of life.

I have removed the link to the CE repository because i can think of no way to distribute it appropriately and i do not want to post it generally and open it to abuse. if someone has an iso that they wish to share they will have to use their own link.

I now look forward to the new year filled with many enjoyable hours working on linux and puppy

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night

Wanderer


First Wanderer I want to say thank you for trying to start the initiative of a CE Distro but to be honest what you were proposing is a Pupplet not really suitable for a mainline Community Distro and to be honest a System like the Community model is only as good as those involved with it is on the whole a successful system on what many great distros have been built on.

I don't think any criticism of the community system is warranted and really falls or succeeds in the hands of that community. I still believe the frankly the silly Benevolent Dictator Model is not what Open Source/Foss is about.

Unfortunately this Thread got diluted into a wish fest and some insults - Just to long in the debate dept. You need to have debate to get ideas thrashed out but also know when to say ok we must decide to go in this direction and go with it.

Anyway Wanderer Merry Xmas and to all those in this Community and who knows what might come out next year for example Dejan and an updated DPUP from him and the ongoing 5.286 project well done Rerwin and co - Level headed stuff. Anyway good luck Puppy Community for the new year and simargl with your distro - just don't bely your talents with wasteful silly trolling.

Best wishes all


Darren

darry1966
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10730
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 24 Dec 2013, 22:52    Post subject:  

For some odd reason, I had no notifications of postings by users, grrr that gets me, anyways The next CE I think should be be using the same kernel, glibc, and xorg as debian, or ubuntu or Slackware, But forget all the massive backend things, keep it gtk2 and we will compile what is needed after we have jwm.
then we could move on.
ttuuxxx

_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
dejan555


Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2588
Location: Montenegro

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013, 04:05    Post subject:  

Correct me if I'm wrong but puppy "Community Edition" has always been, as far as I know just a latest official stable puppy polished and fixed by community.

If there was stable puppy 1.08, it was 1.09CE
For puppy 2.14, there was 2.15CE
For puppy 4.1x there was 4.2.1 CE

So earlier when someone like you started thread for CE edition, puppy community said just "let's do it!" and there was no question in base, latest puppy was served by Barry and left for community to play with.

I think the reason we don't see new CEs is because a lot of polishing nowadays is done directly to woof and now that there's woof-CE I think development will only go for better. (I remember when doing puppy 4.2.1 lots of fixes done for that version weren't incorporated back to official puppy because Barry did not monitor changes and in meantime worked on something else that became next puppy, but now we have woof-CE)

The other reason is there isn't one mainline puppy anymore but with variety of choices for binary compatibility we now have dpup, spup etc... and there are developers that took role of maintaining them and part of community that follows that specific project.

So wanderer why such haste for "CE" ?
Are you afraid puppy is going to disappear? Because it's not.

As far as future development of puppy generally goes I think we should do:
Developers should continue work on the projects they normally do and send back fixes to woof-CE
Users can test and suggest new fixes

I don't think puppy needs a total rewrite, puppy as we know it is very good just needs more polishing.
As far as binary compatibility goes woof was created because there was always issue with lack of puppy packages and updating/recompiling them for next release. Puppy is not supported and managed by some big company. There are many good developers here who like contributing to puppy but there's noone to tell them "Maintain this, this and this package for xxx future puppy versions" but that's the beauty of puppy, there are still many awesome puppy releases.

Puppy is beautifull
Thanks to Barry and everyone who ever contributed to it and keep the good work guys.

Dejan

_________________


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger 
cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3250
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013, 17:51    Post subject:  

Here is a what I want.

Most of the Puppy commands >> puppy pfix=ram ...etc

Why are we still having to type it.

Particularly the obscure ones for video cards.

Why not numbers.

We can hit F2.

Why not an F3 >>> then a quick description.. >> then hit a number.

I think Shinobar had a really early JP release with much more options.

About time we came out of the caves.

Was it you ttuuxxx who did the early work on the first boot logo??

To me this is an obvious deal breaker for newbies.

And quite honestly I hate that command crap on booting up.

Cheers to all.....Chris.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 697
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013, 21:06    Post subject:  

cthisbear wrote:
And quite honestly I hate that command crap on booting up.


That command crap is awesome and important. You can't get any info off of a bloated splash screen program that appeare(s/d) to (be/) freez(en/on).

_________________
Desktop: Intel 945PSN Board, 3.2Ghz P-IV "Prescott 2M", 2GB RAM, 160GB WD HDD, Windows 7
Netbook: Acer AOD257 with 2GB upgrade, No OS

Last edited by bark_bark_bark on Thu 26 Dec 2013, 10:31; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4133

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 03:14    Post subject:  

YOU DO NOT NEED ANY OF THAT CRAP.
You can boot straight to X+jwm in less than 10 lines of code in about 0.2s and let the other "garbage" run in a terminal.

basic steps
0 export variables
1 autologin
2 mount sys proc dev and dev/pts
3 start Xvesa or xfbdev (or Xorg but it takes longer and is larger)
4 start wm
5 use the wm's startup command to run the rest in an rxvt -e ... in jwm this is <StartupCommand>
6 While that is running pop up a configuration gui for all the stuff requiring user input including the possibility to switch to Xorg, change language, keyboard etc...

using a splash is a waste of time ... just set a default bg image for jwm in the /etc/system.jwmrc (or /usr/etc/system.jwmrc if a less informed packager built your jwm)

Continue discussing the color of the bike shed if you want, I have already demolished it and paved over it.

_________________
Web Programming - Pet Packaging 100 & 101
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
dejan555


Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2588
Location: Montenegro

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 05:01    Post subject:  

technosaurus, do you have alternative rc.sysinit / xwin /xinitrc that you use? Have you already posted it somewhere?
See now we're talking, let's get some code suggested for improvement and maybe it will be accepted in woof-CE if it still provides same functionality but with more efficient startup times etc...
Is there a woof-CE thread or are developers supposed to send commits directly to git?
Why not have both (git for developers and thread for regular users and suggestions?)

_________________


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger 
amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2165

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 05:50    Post subject:  

But wait, I want to use /usr mounted on NFS and run without X as I am building a server. Can your init system do that? And, if I run as you suggest, what happens if the X server won't start on my video hardware? And what about if I want a sane multi-user system where every users needs to login?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
dejan555


Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2588
Location: Montenegro

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 06:50    Post subject:  

amigo, I said "if it provides same functionality" meaning if it stays in puppy fashion of doing things

I said I think puppy doesn't need rewrite but no reason not to optimize/improve code in scripts if in the end it has same effect.
If I understand correctly technosaurus said that most stuff that user sees on startup could be run in background while starting X faster?

EDIT: On the multiuser thing: pizzasgood proved that it can be done but Barry has gone in the wrong direction with implementation of spot and not giving users choice to add more users with own home directories.
I think most of puppy users want to run as root, it's more of the linux community outside of puppy that always criticize puppy because of it but I think it's a feature that could be added to puppy (again, it's mostly puppy scripts that need to be changed, not totally rewritten to use different directories instead hardcoded /root/, you can already create new users in puppy but you can't run Xorg and other puppy scripts won't work well)

_________________


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger 
greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2082
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 13:51    Post subject:  

dejan555 wrote:
On the multiuser thing: pizzasgood proved that it can be done ..... I think it's a feature that could be added to puppy (again, it's mostly puppy scripts that need to be changed, not totally rewritten to use different directories instead hardcoded /root/,

I think it would be very handy for a CE puppy to have some sort of "sandbox" (is that the same thing as spot and fido??) where a user could run a browser.

Even if this was not a truly multiuser functionality it would be nice to be able to let the kids tinker online knowing that they couldn't damage system files (and that the browser couldn't damage them either...)

Could this be achieved via an sfs? A sandbox_browser sfs??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
dejan555


Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2588
Location: Montenegro

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 14:14    Post subject:  

greengeek, dpup 484/485 has a "SafeBrowse" script that runs browser as user "nobody" in /tmp and delete files after close, it doesn't work for me anymore with newer seamonkey versions as seamonkey complains about missing profile, but maybe can be fixed or made to use with other browser? Here's the code

Code:
#!/bin/bash
#       SafeBrowse
#       
#       Copyright 2010 G Pearson
#       
#       This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
#       it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
#       the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
#       (at your option) any later version.
#       
#       This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
#       but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
#       MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
#       GNU General Public License for more details.
#       
#       You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
#       along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
#       Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston,
#       MA 02110-1301, USA.

#pre-run setup
cp -f /root/.gtkrc-2.0 /tmp/.gtkrc-2.0
su nobody -c /lib/seamonkey/seamonkey

#exit cleanup
rm -f -r /tmp/.mozilla &&
rm -f -r /tmp/.macromedia &&
rm -f -r /tmp/.adobe &&
rm -f /tmp/.gtkrc-2.0
exit


There's also this:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=45884
(haven't used or tested)

Running as spot/fido is running as restricted user, so it is more secure too.

_________________


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 764
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec 2013, 16:34    Post subject: Doing something beyond talking  

Hi again,

Sorry if it seems I'm going over the same material, but it occurred to me, unless I've got it wrong again, that wanderer and I aren't very far apart. Our visions are, in fact, compatible.
First an apology to goingnuts. I represented, without citing a webpage reference, that he wasn't sure pUPnGO was a good idea for a Community Edition. As I understand wanderer's vision, it is to use pUPnGO as the base, onto which different flavors of SFSes could be loaded. [The pUPnGO base, itself, would be a fully working OS capable of running on old, resource-limited computers. The flavors could include one or more capable of using the most recent applications and taking advantage of the resources of recent computers]. This is not very different from my previous suggestion. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=742752#742752. Back in August, bark_bark_bark suggested a somewhat different approach to modularity. See the discussion beginning here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=722197#722197, as to which goingnuts responded: “You are sure pupngo is a healthy starting point? (I'm not).” http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=722700#722700. I mis-recalled/confused the discussion regarding bark_bark_bark's idea with that suggested by wanderer.
On wanderer's request, goingnuts provided the following summary of pUPnGO,
“Best summary still the one on page 1. Latest pupngo iso is from summer 2011 although latest modifications can be found in the pupngo2012 thread.
There are no deadlines for - or targeted new release - although I have worked towards a 2013 version. That wont come. Now I work towards a 2014 version. Focus shifts - as I would like to bring some improvements rather than just a rebuild/re-master. The 2011 (and/or the 2012) are quite mature in my eyes. With little effort it can be remastered to run most official Puppys main sfs-file - and a range of other Distros as well - not to say that is a good purpose in it self - more as a statement of the level of maturity I think it has.
You can convert an official Puppys main sfs-file to squashfs3.0 or 3.1 and after boot of pupngo run the otf_sfs_loader.sh to add the squashfs-file to the aufs branch. Run xwin and there you go. You can fine tune by removing specific modules or applications already provided by pupngo to reduce size or customize the build.
Same procedure with other Distros - make a squashfs-fielsystem of all the files - and use otf_sfs_loader.sh to run them.
One of the unique strengths is still the static linking of all binaries in the core pupngo in combination with the full (I think...) toolset from the real Puppy (boot from whatever, save to whatever, various cli setting wizards etc).” (Emphasis added by me). http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=745650#745650. Also keep in mind the explanation previously given regarding elimination of the “tool chain” compiling complications by compiling the applications to be used in an extension-SFS in the Pup from which the extension-SFS is derived.

I also must apologize to goingnut for not raising my inability to boot pUPnGo with Grub4dos from a folder on an Ext4 partition in the pUPnGo thread. Thinking it to be a Grub4dos problem, I had run several “well-minded” searches starting with “Grub4dos pUPnGo”, expanded to “Grub4dos puppy 4.1” and similar. I had also read half-way thru the Grub4dos thread. Other than a couple of suggestive posts soon after shinobar published the initial version of Grub4dos, I couldn't found anything. I took that silence to mean that a solution had already been found and so posted the question on the “User's” sub-forum, rather than the Grub4dos thread. It didn't even occur to me that booting pUPnGo might be sufficiently different from booting puppy 4.12 to warrant posting on the pUPnGo thread.
At any rate, that problem remains. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=745771#745771.

To extend 4x pUPnGo's squashfs 3.0 or 3.1 are used. A couple years ago (about the time 4.31 was published?) Pups switched over to using 4.0 squashfs. [Many (most?) Pups still come with a built-in app to convert between them]. I can think of one good reason for pUPnGo 2014 to continue using 3.x SFSes: so that pUPnGO's otf_sfs_loader.sh can easily distinguish its extensions from other SFSes used with Series 5 Pups. Are there other, perhaps technical reasons for continuing to use 3.x series SFSes? Were there sound technical reasons for Pups in general to make the switch? Is pUPnGo's continuing to use 3.x series SFSes a matter of historical inertia? Limitation of the 4.1x series? If pUPnGO 2014 is based on one of the 5 series Pups, say wary or racy, can the extensions built for it use squashfs4.0's? What are the pros and cons?
Goingnuts is currently working on a 2014 version of pUPnGO. I believe completion of that work could be a better solution than trying to modify the original pUPnGO to handle the current computing environment. I think pUPnGO 2014 should include is an SFS-downloader and that the Community Edition repository would contain various extension-SFS flavors to facilitate a user's easy choice of the desktop best suited for his system. As I've said before, those interested in pUPnGO should volunteer to help in its development. When it is ready, it could serve as the “base” for a Community Edition. That, however, leaves up for discussion the development of what would be at least “an” SFS extension to that base, or –if pUPnGO isn't ready-- a derivative in its own right.
Although actualization and customization may present challenges, considering the apparent ease with which a mature Pup can be converted into a pUPnGO sfs-extension, I still consider it appropriate the we try to develop an state-of-the-art Racy or Wary.
I believe the easiest way to that end will require a new compile of both the 3.8 kernel and glibc 2.17 against it. The quirky repos contain the T2 files already prepared for woofing. Anyone interested in how I reached those conclusions –the tests I've run to try to avoid having to undertake such compilation-- and why I suggest those can email me.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 40 of 42 [621 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 38, 39, 40, 41, 42 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1133s ][ Queries: 12 (0.0106s) ][ GZIP on ]